Jewish, Not Arab, Roots in Judea and Samaria

reply to post by mayabong


Americas a spiritual grandchild of the concept of Israel...

Americas founding fathers based their perfect society - a constitutionalist republic - on the Torah.

The "constitution" of Israel are the 10 commandments. Not "rights" but OBLIGATIONS. Theres a very big difference between the two. But in anycase, the 10 commandments are modes of conduct between man and G-d, and many of the early states (Connecticut, Delaware, Rhode Island etc) had such clauses in their constitutions ie; christianity being the official religion, sunday as an official day of rest and leisure, ideas like "duties to our creator" which was in North Carolinas bill of rights..... This is all from the Torah. Exodus 18 verse 17 says

"Listen now to me and I will give you some advice, and may God be with you. You must be the people’s representative before God and bring their disputes to him. 20 Teach them his decrees and instructions, and show them the way they are to live and how they are to behave. 21 But select capable men from all the people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. 22 Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves"

This sure sounds like a Representative Republic, where only MAJOR, state concerns are legislated by the central authority (moses in this verse) whereas matters of more local concerns are to be decided by the judges of "thousands, hundreds, fifties".

This whole system is Hebrew in origin. The pagan nations did not permit these sort of freedoms. EVERYTHING was to be centralized and under the control of power hungry dictators or 'godmen', as the story of nimrod allegorically presents. Also, its fitting that Jethro gives this advice, because Jethro was a gentile, a "man of the world"..

Such a sad thing that people who enjoy these freedoms dont pay any respect to the people who brought these freedoms into the world.

reply to post by dontreally


While your post was nicely put, I'm not sure which post of mine you were replying?

reply to post by mayabong


You said

Eventually it will just be Israel and America trying to say this isn't a good idea

And i think its apt that America stand by Israels side. They are two peas in the same pod.

I don`t know why zionists continue to peddle falsehoods and fairytales, as to the true demographics of Palestine.
There area number of census` which were caried out from the ottoman period through to Britiah rule.

Israel is similar to apartheid South Africa in not only its practises of dispossesion and ethnic cleansing, but in the attempt to rewrite history.The Boers used to teach their children that the bantu blacks only entered South Africa at the same time as they had.

www.cjpme.ca...

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by mayabong

 

You said

Eventually it will just be Israel and America trying to say this isn't a good idea

And i think its apt that America stand by Israels side. They are two peas in the same pod.

You're totally deflecting from what I said. Just cause something is OLD doesn't mean its right. So what if America and Israel was founded on the 10 commandments its not like either follow them very well. If the UN could give Israel to the Jews, they can do the same for the Palestenians. Whats the big deal?

The truth is they see all of that land as theirs and will slowly but surely chip away at it. (either creating false terror or poking away until someone fights back)

I'm not sure how many countries recognize palestine. maybe 100? How many will it take for Israel and the US to reflect and say hmm ok maybe we are wrong about this. The "West" is a very small part of the globe.

reply to post by Saracen2


So youre denying the British reports that note illegal immigration into Palestine between 1910-1940? Are you denying a Syrian official being on record saying 30,000 Hurani - arabs from southern syria illegally migrated into western palestine in 1 month alone in 1933?

Just think about it! The Arabs were impoverished living under effendi rule. They find out that the Jews are prospering in western palestine thanks to Jewish investment from wealthy European Jews, and that theres a great deal of labor available (albeit, for eastern european Jews being persecuted by the Czars), what else do you think they would do? They would rush into Palestine, illegally, to take those numerous jobs being created for Jews...and therebye filling the british labor quota.

That is EXACTLY what happened, and that is why the British numbers for Arab Palestinians in Jewish settled western Palestine (the coastal region of todays Israel) in 1917 was 117,000. In a matter of 23 years, this number ballooned to 400,000 + thousand, an UNPRECEDENTED increase, which the british deviously attributed to a natural increase.

How bout you read books on this subject, Saracen (way to come off as impartial here) instead of enflaming the already popular view. People seem to forget that anti-zionism is popular. Most people are against Israel. Thus, you have the popular view. And YOU have the popular view because of the enormous slant in western media - BBC, CNN etc against Israel. This is how the social controllers control people. The popular view is their creation. Zionism is just a clever way to regarb Jew hatred.

reply to post by dontreally


Are you kidding me, the western media is 100% pro israel. You don't see dead gaza children on CNN or Fox. I mean Wolf Blitzer used to work at AIPAC and he's CNN's main guy.

reply to post by mayabong


You just proved how completely ignorant you are about the Israel/Palestine issue. BBC is vitriolicly anti-Israel and anyone who knows anything knows that. Simply go to youtube and type in BBC and Israel and look at each of their reports. Britian is vociferously anti-Israel, and infact of the 2 supporters for a palestinian state in the west bank, Britian is one of them (the other is Pakistan). Britain was also one of those who voted AGAINST an israeli state in 1947, and Britain were the ones who enabled arab illegal immigration into Israel during the British mandate.. Britan has ALWAYS been the greatest enemy of the Israel since its foundations and again anyone knowledgeable about this subject knows that.

And as for dead Gaza children.....umm, maybe because there ARENT dead children in Gaza. and if there are its the fault of the government of Gaza ie; Hamas...

Is it not odd that people keep talking about a genocide in Israel and yet we have no evidence for it? Even though the government in the Palestinian authority is Islamic, Anti-Semitic and staunchly anti-Israel........ At some point you will have to come to your senses and understand that this is a case of "repeating something over and over again and eventually it will be believed and taken as fact".. This is what George Orwell explores in 1984. read the book, it describes todays common perspective about Palestinians and Israel PERFECTLY. For christs sake, they have MALLS in the PA, and just yesterday a Jew (a nephew of Likud MK Limor Livnat) who went to pray at Josephs Tomb in the Palestinian city of Nablus (actually, its the city of Sheckem, a city with an ancient Jewish religious site - the Tomb of Joseph) was gunned down and murdered by a Palestinian security officer... so.. ya.. its pretty incredible that the "persecuted" palestinians are killing harmless religious Jews who try to pray at the ancient (and go look up the history if you think im just making this up) tomb of Joseph HaTzaddik, and yet people still believe a naziesque genocide is going on in Palestine...this despite the fact that they have their own government....

Its incredible. Reality does not meet up with the claims. They are actually diametrically opposed to the claims..but as orwell, and the Nazis, soviets and sorcerors know quite well, if you repeat something enough the emotionally fickle and suggestible are quick to defer to the popular opinion, because theyre weak minded and cant put in the time, or perhaps are too lazy to put in the time to learn the actual truth for themselves.

reply to post by dontreally


Isreal wouldn't be there without Britain, Jeez. Balfour Declaration?

I'm not talking about the BBC I'm talking about the US media. Are you gonna deny that Wolf Blitzer the main guy on CNN wasn't an AIPAC lobbiest? Maybe you don't know who he is. Just about every Fox news watcher is 100% pro israel. There is a reason that Rupurt Murdoch gets ADL awards.

As far as the pictures from Cast lead, I'm sure you can find them. As an American I didn't even really know the scope of it from the US media.

reply to post by mayabong


*sigh*

Buddy. Please read up on these things before you comment on them. Britain was GRANTED the authority by the League of Nations to administer the region of Palestine until the Jews settled themselves and gained a majority so they could establish a state.

And if youre going to mention the belfour delcaration, also mention the later Churchill white paper which limited Jewish immigration to a nominal 15,000 a year, preventing the Jews from becoming the majority stpiluated by the belfour declaration.

As far as the pictures from Cast lead, I'm sure you can find them. As an American I didn't even really know the scope of it from the US media.

Look out how many people Syria has murdered in the past month. Like 200. Now imagine this was Israel. Operation cast lead atleast was justfiied in that Hamas was launching missiles into Israeli towns and killing innocent women and children...... Whats Syrias excuse for what theyre doing? Ummm? Who set this government up in the first place? The FRENCH. Another western established government, like Egypt (British), like Iraq (British) like Tunisia (French), Like Libya (Italy), Like Yemen (British) that is revolting against their obscenely corrupt western installed and supported governments. But we never hear a thing about how these governments came to be. Its like Orwell said "the past is erased and the erasure forgotten".

You have to understand that what the popular opinion is is exactly what the social controllers want it to be. Even though 250,000 people have been killed in Lebanon in the last 40 years because of civil war, this much greater human tragedy, the result of a preposterously phony nation (a nation by definition should share important things; like a culture, a religion, and a language..In Lebanon, you have internecine fighting between Shi'te, Sunni, Christians, Druze, PA militants etc...a recipe for disaster) is hardly even known in the west....WHY? Because 99.9% of middle east coverage concentrates on Israel. Israel whether you understand it or not is seen as an aggressor in the west, and especially (if you attend university you would know this) on college campuses... It is the ascendant view, and has been growing since the 1970's...

I dont know what else to say Mayabong. You seem to want to be against Israel regardless of what i say.

reply to post by mayabong


Well, Fox is clearly pro-Israel, but they are just one network, I'm not sure the rest are clearly pro-Israel... actually, in Israel at least, CNN isn't perceived as very fair towards Israel - I'm not familiar with the other networks, since we don't get them here (we get CNN and Fox basically...)

But a lot of the information that comes into news channels comes from the likes of AP and Reuters... and they use local people (which in our case, sometimes have a bias), there have been many occasions where the world media took the palestinian propaganda at its word without even checking the facts - for example, the "Jenin Massacare"... which never happened... (look up "Defensive Shield" in 2002), I was in Japan at the time, and CNN kept reiterating numbers of "hundreds of palestinians killed" etc..

Basically, each coin has two sides..

reply to post by dontreally


I just noticed your post

First of all, my grandfather was schooled in a "heder" in Poland, so I was exposed to both the Orthodox way, and I had my Bar-Mitzva in a reform way (on request of my mother since she wanted men and women to sit together).

Actually, there are several "types" of religious people in Israel, there are the Orthodox ones, which usually wear black (we call them "Hardeim"), these guys for the most part don't go to the army, and most of them don't work.. The "Sewen Yammukas", these guys are the guys that usually live in the settlements, they go to the army, they work and contribute, and there are also the reform guys, which just take Judaism in a bit more of a modern approach.

Far be it from me to decide which way is the right way - I wasn't raised religious, and I was told by my grandfather about a year before he died that god gave us free will, and I should always learn as much as I can about something before making a decision about it, and NEVER do what the Rabbi says without thinking myself first. He was a smart man...

Actually, as far as education, there are several types of education systems - there's the standard secular one (which I attended), there's the government religious one, where they have prayers and everything, and then you have other non-governmental branches (the Orthodox ones usually)...

I wrote in the past - "No one can hate Jews like other Jews"... it is a fascinating thing to watch objectively (if it didn't make me want to throw something at these people), there are so many examples... It does merit more study (by professionals).... and don't get me started about Ms. Aloni... her political party was almost completely erased in the last elections... the common conception in Israel is that the media and courts that are largely controlled by the "left", give these people a louder voice then they actually have...

It seems the sentiment in this post is that Jews own the land of Judea, since that has been their homeland from biblical times and bears their name. And the Palestinians are basically "interlopers", invaders who came and took the land. (maybe not directly, but they are/were for the most part the primary residents of those lands prior to 1948.

So does this make it right for Jews to make their claim on the land and drive out Palestinians? The last time an independent Judean kingdom existed was before it fell to the Romans.

If modern Jews want to return to the land and literally drive out the current peoples, then why can't the descendents of the Canaanites drive out Jews, since before a Judah or Judea existed it was home to Canaanites? After leaving Egypt Joshua conquered Canaanite cities to establish an Israelite kingdom. Palestinians are descendents of Canaan, and of ancient Hebrews as well.

... and "[a]lthough proud of their Arab heritage and ancestry, the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews and the Canaanites before them."

So before you ask whose roots are in Judea, just remember the Palestinians also have their roots in these lands. In fact their connection to Canaanites means they were there before Hebrews or their descendents. If that's all it takes to make a claim to these lands is who was there first, the Palestinians edge out Jews.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Yeah but the Jews wrote it in a book so that makes a difference..

Forget that their history in the area only goes back 3500 years and other people were really there first..

It all boils down to who writes it in a pretty book,,

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Palestinians are NOT canaanites... they were mostly people who came to this area when it started to develop following Jewish migrations in the 1800's...

There are several archeological theories that claim that Jews as a separate ethnic group developed from canaanites, there was a period, about 3500 years ago (or so) where Judaism started to appear (at least that's what the archeology is saying), and at the same time, Egypt ruled this area (and fought the Assirians who controlled Syria and those areas among others), in that period, the major cities in canaan were pretty much destroyed and the concepts of Judaism arose... No one really knows.

Also, no one is saying that palestinians don't deserve a state, go to Israel, ask anyone there, and you'll probably hear that... The only thing that stands in the way of them getting a state is themselves...

reply to post by ender_shadow

The only thing that stands in the way of them getting a state is themselves...

BS...Israel....Does....

reply to post by backinblack


ummm.... no... it... doesn't...

in 1999, 2008 were all times that they were offered everything except what they claim as "the right of return" and said NO NO NO... so... I'm sorry mate... but you might need to get your facts in order.

Not to mention 1947 when the originally said no... and 1967 when the refused to negotiate (Khartum convention - look it up)...

Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by backinblack

 

ummm.... no... it... doesn't...
in 1999, 2008 were all times that they were offered everything except what they claim as "the right of return" and said NO NO NO... so... I'm sorry mate... but you might need to get your facts in order.
Not to mention 1947 when the originally said no... and 1967 when the refused to negotiate (Khartum convention - look it up)...

My facts are fine..
Yours seem to be just parroting the Israeli view of history..

Like the usual "Israel was attacked by 5 Arab countries in 67 crap"

reply to post by ender_shadow

Jimmy Carter's simple statement of the facts—November 2000

"An underlying reason that years of U.S. diplomacy have failed and violence in the Middle East persists is that some Israeli leaders continue to 'create facts' by building settlements in occupied territory...

"At Camp David in September 1978...the bilateral provisions led to a comprehensive and lasting treaty between Egypt and Israel, made possible at the last minute by Israel's agreement to remove its settlers from the Sinai. But similar constraints concerning the status of the West Bank and Gaza have not been honored, and have led to continuing confrontation and violence...

"[Concerning UN Resolution 242] Our government's legal commitment to support this well-balanced resolution has not changed...It was clear that Israeli settlements in the occupied territories were a direct violation of this agreement and were, according to the long-stated American position, both 'illegal and an obstacle to peace.' Accordingly, Prime Minister Begin pledged that there would be no establishment of new settlements until after the final peace negotiations were completed. But later, under Likud pressure, he declined to honor this commitment...

"It is unlikely that real progress can be made...as long as Israel insists on its settlement policy, illegal under international laws that are supported by the United States and all other nations.

"There are many questions as we contine to seek an end to violence in the Middle East, but there is no way to escape the vital one: Land or peace?" Former President Jimmy Carter in The Washington Post, November 26, 2000.

www.wrmea.com...

Yep, Israel does NOT want peace.........Never have.......

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Where on earth did you get "there connection to canaanites"..??!

First, the Canaanites WERENT Arabs. Secondly, look up the concept of the "hold land". Do you realize that the majority of inhabitants of the holy land since the 11th century have been Christian immigrants from the Caucusus, Germany, Turkey, Persia, Balkans, Western Europe?? Have you not heard of the crusades?

The holy land has always had a cosmpolitian population, and JEWS have always been an integral part of that population. Arabs, ie; people from the Arabian peninsula, only came after Jerusalem was conquered, and even than it lasted a mere 25 years, when the Abbasids conquered Jerusalem (The abbasids were not Arabs, but from Iraq, which if youre superficial understanding of reality doesnt make a distinction of) in 762 from their "Arab" muslim brothers, the ummayad caliphate. So much for solidarity in Islam.

And again, about the "canaanites" they were not Arabs and i cannot stress this commonly understood fact enough. The Philistines (who were a coastal caananite people) were as archeologists believed from either the Balkans or Anatolia. They were certainly not Arabs.

Also, did you not read my pertinent fact piece that when the Romans cruelly ousted the Jews from Judea, the Byzantine Christians, and later the various Muslim powers prevented the Jews from consolidating and establishing themselves again in Judea? Do you realize that for over 1900 years Jewish rabbinic writings ABOUND with pleas to G-d to return the Jewish people to Eretz Yisrael so they can serve G-d again?!!. Think about that. 1900 YEARS! Go through the literature. This makes any Arab claim to Israel utterly superficial.

And again, as for the Canaanites, Hebrew is actually much more closely related to the language spoken by them than Arabic is, and even then Arabic is mainly influenced by Hebrew/Aramaic. And since were talking about language, something that ethnologists see as a qualification for being a "race", the Palestinians do NOT have a language, culture or religion that is any way unique from the other Arabs of the middleeast and North Africa. Jews though, whether from North Africa, Middle East, Russia, Easter Europe, or Western Europe all share the same a) Language (Hebrew) b) Religion (Judaism) c) Culture (with some minor variations, but more or less you see much sharing).... How can anyone in their right mind deny the historicity of the Jewish people?

Its pure lies and the result of propaganda to think otherwise.