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Jewish, Not Arab, Roots in Judea and Samaria

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posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 


I was referring to the MSM outside of Israel suppressing anti-Zionist activity. the U.S. and most other countries usually get the Zionist side of the stories and usually only generalized versions at that. We rarely see any details like activities of Neturei Karta and similar groups !

I agree that Ahmedinejad acts crazy but that is exactly why He may be a cloaked Zionist as many other leaders could also be, as they all seem to be allowing the Zionist money institutions to exist and prosper even while under "Islamic" rule. They may very well be helping Israel and TPTB Zionists with the policies they actually follow while talking a different game.

funny world ....




posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Actually, if you look at the MSM from Israel (as I do) you see something completely different... we see how the media never seems to support what Israel is doing, they are usually biased towards the other side... and if you are going to use the case that the US media is owned by Jews, while that might be the case, I bring you to points to consider:

1) No one hates Jews like other Jews (Noam Chomsky is a good example)
2) These news organizations are supplied information by people in the field, which in Gaza or the web bank are usually local Arabs (in the Lebanon war, a Reuters guy photoshoped a picture to make Israel look bad, and there were other cases)

As for Iran's pres. Well... like I said - proof would be nice, although he hates enough to be Jewish

but it has been my experience that usually the simplest explanation is the true... and he just hates us because that was what he was indoctrinated to do... people living outside of Muslim countries often fail to understand just how strong this brainwashing can be... I mean, these guys blow themselves up... no Christian or Jew have done that (at least not that I know of), I do know about Buddhist monks that burned themselves, but that is different, since they didn't set out to kill others... so, he's insane, but I doubt he's working for Israel...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 


First, let me say I hope your children are NOT carriers.

You are right the article you sourced is long so I only scanned it. I don't think a sampleing of only 1300 people would give a definitive conclusion. There have been many tests and none of them mean much because there is NO sample of an Israelite to compare with. An ancester from Spain does't mean much as Jews tended to migrate around Europe. When you consider the rate of assimilation throughout history one would wonder why many Jews today believe they are part of a race. Non of that matters as I believe the State of Israel legally exists. BUT when it comes to displacing people from homes they have lived in for generations simply because they don't share your religion, I think this is wrong. Just as wrong as the discrimination against the Jewish people in Europe simply because they didn't share the religious beliefs of most Europeans.

The good news is in a few months (Sept) the state of Palestine will come into existence and all this nonsense will become history.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by gem_man
 


Thank you, I certainly hope so too


Well, as for the sample size, I am no scientist, but you can't have an article published unless you have met the scientific standard.. so I guess in this case, 1300 were deemed to be enough.

There is also another article that states that all Jews have a common, middle-eastern ancestry, but I couldn't find a reference to it, which is why I didn't bring it.

As for displacing people who lived here for generations - while I agree that Israel wasn't empty, Jews have always lived here, Jews were often displaced within Israel (in 1929 the British forced the Jews living in Gaza to evacuate and didn't let them return).

Actually, Israel was sparsely populated at best as the original poster brought numerous examples of travelers expressing what they saw. While this is not accurate, there were censuses made during the Turkish rule and they show that there weren't many people here...

I can go on an on about the history of this area, but I agree with you that come September we'll see what happens. I personally think they won't have a state then (they threatened that before... in my 1999 for example), there is, in my view, too many interest holding parties that would prefer the situation where the palestinian remain dependent on bodies like UNRWA too many people are making too much money from them to stop that when a state would be founded...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 



1) No one hates Jews like other Jews (Noam Chomsky is a good example)


I think you mean "No one hates Zionism like certain Jews"



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


No... I know what I meant, thanks


Chomsky has supported Hizbolla which kills Israelis (and killed Arab Israelis as well), so, he hates Jews, not Zionism.. and he's not the only one... there have been numerous self-hating Jews throughout history...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Just one quibble.

There is no difference between the Roman-era (or older!) occupants of the Levant, and the current "Arab" populations there. You see, the people living there now are the descendants of the people who were living there then.

There was as a matter of fact no mass diaspora during the Roman Era - a few hundred priests who had formulated a rebellion against Roman rule in Iudaea were exiled into slavery through the empire. The rest of the population remained right where it was. it was successively ruled by the Persians, the Byzantines, the Mongols, the Arabs again, the Turks, the Franks, the Turks again, then the British and now Israel.

The natives that were displaced by the invasion of European Jews between 1929 and 1947, and the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by these invaders were, and still are, the rightful inheritors of that territory. That the invaders were Jewish gives them no more rights to the territory than a Catholic has to Algeria.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. After the big Jewish revolt of 70AD, the Romans exiled many thousands of Jews... not several "priests"...

There was a second big revolt in 135 AD, that ended with the same results...

Jews did not "invade" in 1929... Jews started returning in greater numbers to Israel in the beginning of the 1800's following a series of pogroms in easter Europe. There was no "ethnic cleansing", that's just one more myth that needs to be put to rest...

And there have always been Jews living in Israel ever since Roman times up until the founding of the modern state of Israel.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 



And there have always been Jews living in Israel ever since Roman times up until the founding of the modern state of Israel.


Only Jews??
And were there others before them??



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Never said there weren't... never said Jews were alone...

There are actually archeological studies that claim that the earliest Jews were actually Cannanites (sorry for mis-spelling)... however, all of these people that historically lived in Israel before and/or with the Jews have either assimilated into other peoples or have died out. The Jews (despite the best efforts of many throughout history) did not.

The thread is about roots... as Arabs are from "Arabia"... I think that puts it to rest...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Actually, if you look at the MSM from Israel (as I do) you see something completely different... we see how the media never seems to support what Israel is doing, they are usually biased towards the other side...


Which media is "the media"? Israel's media is far more critical of Israel than the US media has ever been, for certain. have you ever considered, though, that it might simply be because Israel is in the wrong? I mean "the media" was pretty anti-Israq during the invasion of Kuwait, would you argue that this is because of a nasty bias, or because Iraq was doing something indefensible and stupid that was getting people killed?


and if you are going to use the case that the US media is owned by Jews, while that might be the case, I bring you to points to consider:

1) No one hates Jews like other Jews (Noam Chomsky is a good example)


The Israeli government is a better example.


2) These news organizations are supplied information by people in the field, which in Gaza or the web bank are usually local Arabs (in the Lebanon war, a Reuters guy photoshoped a picture to make Israel look bad, and there were other cases)


Yup, he darkened some smoke. He didn't fake the bombs he was reporting, he just made the photo he had have more contrast. Israel still did the bombing in question.


but it has been my experience that usually the simplest explanation is the true... and he just hates us because that was what he was indoctrinated to do...


Just as, perhaps, you've been indoctrinated to regard yourself and your nation as completely innocent of wrongdoing, completely bewildered as to why anyone could ever be upset at your completely harmless, lovable, huggable nation?

Sorry, but "Derp, they're just crazy!" is in fact not "the simplest explanation." Rather, the simplest explanation is that they're pissed at you guys because you invaded them, waged a genocidal war against them, and continue to kill them and steal from them. In other words, they hate you because you are some really crappy people to live next to.


people living outside of Muslim countries often fail to understand just how strong this brainwashing can be... I mean, these guys blow themselves up... no Christian or Jew have done that (at least not that I know of),


They don't need to; they tend to have planes and missile batteries to deliver their civilian-killing death machines. Christian and Jewish mass-murders also tend to not live in such desperate straits that the option of using yourself as a mobile landmine is an option. In point of fact, Christians and Jews are generally causing those conditions for others - Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan...


I do know about Buddhist monks that burned themselves, but that is different, since they didn't set out to kill others... so, he's insane, but I doubt he's working for Israel...


Well, if he's not, he sure does a lot of the heavy lifting for the Israeli government's agenda of keeping the Israeli people terrified and docile.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 


You're missing my point..

How long have there been jews in that area??
Simple question...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Simple answer? no one knows for sure, but estimates are at around 3000 give or take... depends on which archeologist you ask...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by backinblack
 


Simple answer? no one knows for sure, but estimates are at around 3000 give or take... depends on which archeologist you ask...


So since 1000bc...
Not long ago really given the history of that area..

I don't see how the Jews can make a reasonable assumption that it is their homeland based on that..
Obviously MANY others laid claim to that land before them..



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Well, the Israel media sometimes has their own agenda, not just that Israel might be wrong, but sometimes economical interests are involved. Each of the main newspapers and news channels in Israel are controlled by different families that have vast economical interests, and they use their tools accordingly.

Actually, some Jews agree with you, while others don't. However, it's the government we elected, and therefore, we have to deal with the results. Good or bad.

He didn't "darken" smoke, he added more plumes, i.e. "additional bombings" and yes, Israel attacked Lebanon, after an unprovoked attack... the border between Israel and Lebanon is recognized by the UN as the international border, and yet, somehow Israel seems like the bad guy when it retaliated against such an attack.
And that was a single example, there have been numerous other examples - like hiding "bad" information about what they were doing (The Ramallah lynching of the two reservists in 2000 for example)

I never said Israel doesn't make mistakes, quite the opposite... Israel DOES make mistakes. Horrible, stupid mistakes...
And my response was about Iran's President... last I heard, Israel never invaded Iran (they are even not Arabs, their Persians)... or did anything wrong to Iran... so, yes, in my mind, if he wants Nukes to blow me and my family up for doing absolutely nothing to him, that makes him nuts. If you want to expand the discussion to take into account the Arab media and its treatment of Jews, go right ahead, they'll do my work for me... just look how Jews are shown in the Arab media... that would be enough... and then look and see if you find any such examples in the Israeli media... if you find them, it'll be in the fringe of the fringe media...

I don't agree with you, you will note that the religious leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad usually don't send their own sons for these actions... and they usually hide the best...
Your argument is flowed in the fact that these people go and target civilians on purpose, where this is not the case of Israel, where civilians on the other side are hurt, but not intentionally, there is a big moral distinction here.. also, Israel does it's utmost to avoid these casualties, and questions itself after such events, has the other side ever done such a thing? NO, and I repeat, NO amount of suffering can cause you to blow yourself up in a bus, or butcher a sleeping family with knives...
You don't see Tibetans doing the same thing to Chinese while that occupation is far worse in my mind...

Well, Iraq shot missiles at us in 1991 - I don't remember Israel doing anything to them... I agree with you that fear could be a tool used by the government to control the population, but in our case, well, the fears have been justified over the years... and yes, sometimes crazy people help us even though they don't think they are...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by ender_shadow
 


You're missing my point..

How long have there been jews in that area??
Simple question...



Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by backinblack
 


Simple answer? no one knows for sure, but estimates are at around 3000 give or take... depends on which archeologist you ask...



I think it is more of a question of how long has the Hebrew religion been around...

I was asking that here:


www.abovetopsecret.com...


it seems that the "Hebrew" religion is self-proclaimed by the dates inserted when the "books" were really written.

"back-dating" was probably a common practice used by ancient writers and scholars because THEY had no genuine way to verify when something happened before their time.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Again, if you look at my earlier post, I never denied that fact... but they surely weren't "Arab" (as the thread states).

Also, like I wrote, 2 points:

1) Jews are most probably cannanites - the number I brought was when Judaism started to emerge... I read somewhere that around 3,000 years ago, the idea of monotheism started to appear among cannanite groups, during a time of civil unrest in the area (the main cities were destroyed etc), as far as I remember, Egypt controlled the area at that time, and I seem to recall that Akhenaton supported monotheism. So Jews are most likely cannanites.

2) Even though there were other groups here, most, if not all of these groups either assimilated together or died out. The Jews are the only ethnic group with roots this old that have survived. That was my main point.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by ender_shadow
 



Well, Iraq shot missiles at us in 1991 - I don't remember Israel doing anything to them... I agree with you that fear could be a tool used by the government to control the population, but in our case, well, the fears have been justified over the years... and yes, sometimes crazy people help us even though they don't think they are...


Many believe the US invaded Iraq because of the Israeli influence in the US Government..

Israeli politicians have been known to brag that they control the US..
Saddam probably knew the true score...



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by backinblack
 

Again, if you look at my earlier post, I never denied that fact... but they surely weren't "Arab" (as the thread states).
Also, like I wrote, 2 points:
1) Jews are most probably cannanites - the number I brought was when Judaism started to emerge... I read somewhere that around 3,000 years ago, the idea of monotheism started to appear among cannanite groups, during a time of civil unrest in the area (the main cities were destroyed etc), as far as I remember, Egypt controlled the area at that time, and I seem to recall that Akhenaton supported monotheism. So Jews are most likely cannanites.
2) Even though there were other groups here, most, if not all of these groups either assimilated together or died out. The Jews are the only ethnic group with roots this old that have survived. That was my main point.



but they surely weren't "Arab"

How can anyone possible know that??

And phrases like "most probably" have NO place in history..
Especially history that is used to affect an entire region...


2) Even though there were other groups here, most, if not all of these groups either assimilated together or died out. The Jews are the only ethnic group with roots this old that have survived. That was my main point.

You really have no facts to back this up either...
It's a ridiculous assumption...
edit on 23-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


You mean the first time or the second time?

The first time sounds less plausible, since the PM at the time was Shamir, and the administration in the US REALLY didn't like him... (they actually help boot him off power in 1992 by giving Rabin collateral for loans).

The first gulf war was for oil, plain and simple. Iraq invaded Quwait (which the Iraqis see as Iraqi territory), and the world went to war for oil...

The second Iraqi war? well, that's anyone's guess... I don't presume to know. But as far as Israeli politicians bragging about their influence on the US? well, they are politicians and they are under the impression that if they claim they have influence (true or false is less important), then they will be elected... that's it...

Well, I've watched south-park a couple of times and I guess Saddam is too busy with Satan
(he really is a drama queen)



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