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Why was it again that God is not helping the ones in need?

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posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by Danbones
I have a friend ( well married to a friend) who, after her mother died in a lingering death from a horrific car accident, commented on how that was god testing her, and that she stood up to the test her mother's horiffic death quite well......

?

this is where logic sort of breaks down


Maybe.....

Her mother's Higher Self, an experienced soul, lived this life and pass on the way she did, in order to "teach/show/share" with her daughter and others to appreciate Life, and maybe "think" about "mortality" more, contemplate the process of death and lose. "Reflecting" a contrasting "lesson" of the many types of realities. Everything has a reason and a lesson for it.

BASHAR has a lecture about it. See his YOUTUBE video.

Bashar -- Life After Death

youtu.be...

He has an interesting insight on Life and Death.

Big Jedi




posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by ScorpioRising
 


I can understand where you're coming from. I was brought up catholic, attended private school, and was an alter boy. Watching the priests live high on the hog (they owned big cars, boats and had women cooking meals of lobster and steak dinners) as they accepted donations from a neighborhood that was poor, just didn't sit well with me. Not to mention how physically mean the priests and nuns were. I used to attend and serve mass almost 7 times a week. Now I no longer believe in religion. I do however believe in a God or Creator.

I can't understand why a loving God would allow bad things to happen to innocent and good people. My current belief is we are all on this earth to learn lessons so we can become closer in spirit with God. I believe we have chosen our lives and death before we were born. I believe some of us have short lives not by our choice, but for those around us. We are all connected by the same spiritual energy and by affecting someone else around us by death of disease, we are causing them to learn about an emotion or spiritual need they are lacking. Nobody really has the answers, but this is what I have come to believe after reading about many near death experiences.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by ScorpioRising
 


I can understand where you're coming from. I was brought up catholic, attended private school, and was an alter boy. Watching the priests live high on the hog (they owned big cars, boats and had women cooking meals of lobster and steak dinners) as they accepted donations from a neighborhood that was poor, just didn't sit well with me. Not to mention how physically mean the priests and nuns were. I used to attend and serve mass almost 7 times a week. Now I no longer believe in religion. I do however believe in a God or Creator.

I can't understand why a loving God would allow bad things to happen to innocent and good people. My current belief is we are all on this earth to learn lessons so we can become closer in spirit with God. I believe we have chosen our lives and death before we were born. I believe some of us have short lives not by our choice, but for those around us. We are all connected by the same spiritual energy and by affecting someone else around us by death of disease, we are causing them to learn about an emotion or spiritual need they are lacking. Nobody really has the answers, but this is what I have come to believe after reading about many near death experiences.


I agree with you werpeons. And still there is so much more to live and learn...beautiful.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by gmac10001
reply to post by newcovenant
 


That may be true if you had proof that Christ actually existed, or is it just a good bedtime story. There is proof of neanderthals, half a million years ago but no proof of this Incredible magical person 2000 years ago and faith isnt proof..not saying that he could not of existed just saying we really dont know.


So now Christ didn't exist?
Are you there?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 





When you are about to do something which might be wrong or sinful or just a bad idea does a little thought come to you suggesting this? Do you have a conscience? Are you warned before a sin and then ignore the warning or heed it?

The conscience is God's voice to each of us. This is how God helps His people on earth. "My Father's House is not of this World". The earth is only a training ground for us. We are here to learn through experience. It is tough for sure but God doesn't abandon us. God insists that we use our minds and defeat temptations and sin. When everything seems against us and the world unfair we have the God given tools to overcome and realize the impermanence of it all.

Learn to stand steady. Look to the right and the left and find discord, injustice, disharmony, disunity, crime, evil, fear, anger, war and all the rest. Remain standing upright though. Note the tragedies of the earth but remain centered and unmoved. This is what God teaches us to do. It is in this way that we earn the Kingdom.

Religions teach this in a roundabout way speaking of sin and forgiveness. No matter. Become spiritually mature and no evil can touch you. This is what we must learn.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Its a simple answer...

If God helped people in need, a pattern could be collected, examined and analyzed to prove beyond any doubt that God was real.

A pattern would show people who believed in God were helped where as those who didnt were left to suffer injury or whatever the outcome of circumstance was.

Although this would be nice, God does not operate this way because "faith" would no longer be needed to provide each person with salvation.

Faith comes from having no evidence.

Salvation comes from faith.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by FoxfilesMulder
Its a simple answer...

If God helped people in need, a pattern could be collected, examined and analyzed to prove beyond any doubt that God was real.

A pattern would show people who believed in God were helped where as those who didnt were left to suffer injury or whatever the outcome of circumstance was.

Although this would be nice, God does not operate this way because "faith" would no longer be needed to provide each person with salvation.

Faith comes from having no evidence.

Salvation comes from faith.



Hi Fox,

I really liked what you were saying, as a philosophical discussion, until seeing the word "salvation".

This word, one among many, does not sit well with me in my deepest parts. There was always something about it to me that felt off. I wondered why we had to seek salvation.

As a child I heard all the reasons. None of those Felt 'right' to me. In the half a century since, I learned that we aren't bad little souls in need of Redemption.. what we are taught as the Truth. We learn to Believe we are bad because we are Human, because "we are born to the world with Sin".

How sad is that picture? Seriously. Look at it for a few minutes and Feel it.

Does it fill you with a feeling of fresh air or does it make you clench up inside? What does that tell you?

What I learned along this rocky path is that we are powerful, massive Souls having various Experiences that 'God' experiences through us, because we are from it.. a part of it.

But, humans have free will, and we have freely used it for many thousands of years before you and I came along. In doing so we learned ways to control the populace from early times.. with ... Information... and superior Armies of course.

So all history is written by the victors. Even the earliest source for Genesis.. from before the Hebrew left Sumer with the first few books of the Torah.. is a record of one of the Gods (Elohim) triumphing over his younger brother to become sole Heir to their Father's (Anu) Kingdom.

This victorious God was named NL (Enlil). And his character is the same as the Biblical Genesis God.. which it should be since it is the source. This God is Hate-filled, Egotistical, Bloodthirsty, Seeks Revenge and Demands Worship. Oh, and he really hates us humans because his younger brother NK (Enki) created us.. well, manufactured us is closer to the point. And Enki loved us, we were like his children.

So this victorious God (Enlil) set about making sure humans would remember his younger brother Enki as being The Bad One for breaking an Oath to the Elohim (council of gods, the gods). Many millenia later the symbol Enlil (Biblical God) used for Enki is misunderstood to be the Evil Snake in the Garden of Eden.. the one who told the Humans that God lied to them.

I'm telling you this not to upset you or provoke argument, but to indicate that despite the control mechansims used over history, despite the Indoctrination into our Culture that everyone goes through from their birth on.. we humans still have an ability to break out of that Mold. To move outside the box of Beliefs we were indoctrinated into having. And there you will find something like a non-physical, Aware Energy (Feels like unconditional Love) that fills the universe.. this is more like a 'God' than the hate-filled Enlil (God of the Bible) ever could be.



I think this is the one Jeshua, if he lived at all, spoke about and used the old terms everyone already understood

ps.. sorry I waffled on a bit there


edit on 22-4-2011 by Tayesin because: fingers are still dyslexic these days



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by Tayesin
 


I'm totally on board with what you are saying there!


Perhaps salvation was indeed the wrong word as I believe "From that which we came from, so shall we all return."

I was brought up a Christian but now am more mystical with my interpretations.

I guess salvation with me now means - being at the end goal without having to work as hard for it in the end.

I think if you die with limited Wisdom, it may take an eternity to find what you need to move forwards.


Einstein: "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous."


edit on 22-4-2011 by FoxfilesMulder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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Maybe it is the human who believe it need help from god cos it seems convenient and easy.
But if god who create us, just like we create something, we wont end up being that thing s servant or even slave isn't it?
If god help all people who need it, and with human behaviour we can imagine what will happen soon.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by BigJedi
 


SO that means if i hunt down and kill somone... they actually wanted me to kill them if i am successfull?

your logic is disgusting.. and i can only hope i someday gain to power to enter your dreams and fix it.
edit on 21-4-2011 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)


If I start a thread I always read all the comments and try to understand them. But your reply on what BigJedi had to say completely escapes me and strikes me as odd. You probably have some reason to value his reasoning as disgusting and I would like to know where this comes from.

Some people consider you a genius and with all geniuses their thought processes are sometimes difficult to follow. So please, can you eloborate on your comment to BigJedi?






edit on 22-4-2011 by zatara because: I forgot a letter



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


hes only trying to claim that everyone agrees to the life they will live previously in some sort of retarded astral realm.

So the father that backed over his child with a truck should be happy he helped fullfill his childs predetermined destiny... Or if you go around killing people and your happy about it... it was your destiny and all the people you killed ASKED for the experiance of an aggonizing death in this life.

i guess when he has a child who asks him why all the jews were burned alive naked in a furnace he can respond
"they asked for it in the astral plane before they were born so its ok"



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by zatara
 


hes only trying to claim that everyone agrees to the life they will live previously in some sort of retarded astral realm.

So the father that backed over his child with a truck should be happy he helped fullfill his childs predetermined destiny... Or if you go around killing people and your happy about it... it was your destiny and all the people you killed ASKED for the experiance of an aggonizing death in this life.

i guess when he has a child who asks him why all the jews were burned alive naked in a furnace he can respond
"they asked for it in the astral plane before they were born so its ok"


Hi Wertdagf,

It's damn hard to perceive anything bigger picture as a human being. Our very natural tendency is to place Value Judgements on everything and then claim them as Right... and then Expect the Universe/God to Conform to those Limitations we think must be.

The reality is vastly different to what we humans can usually think because we are so heavily indoctrinated with base beliefs from the moment of our birth that it is extremely difficult for most people to step out of that Limiting Box to perceive bigger picture reality.

The reality is that Souls do make co-creation agreements prior to moving into this dense physical world to have the Experiences they intended to share.

The reality is that as humans we are not aware of these agreements in most cases.. so apply our small-minded Judgements on the outcomes of them.

The reality is also that when in life as a human these agreements are considered to be Fate.. when in fact we have the choice in every single second of every day to decide what we will do.. so nothing is set in stone.

There are Possibilities and Probabilities only until they are made real by choosing an action in the moment of this dense experience here.

Even Hitler went to Heaven..... that idea upsets a vast number of people.. Why? Because as humans they are only perceiving with human value-based Judgements and not at all seeing or experiencing the bigger picture reality. Staying inside the Box and making claims to what outside of the box is without ever experiencing it outside.



"they asked for it in the astral plane before they were born so its ok"


In the bigger picture reality this is an exact answer. In human limited reality we have all sorts of emotional attachments based on cultural indoctrinations that prevents us from seeing the perfection of that answer.

The point is.. we get in our own way when perceiving anything. It's natural for us to do until we get outside the box and grow beyond the simple human perceptions.

Everyone involved in these types of scenarios could only be a part of them by Choice... even if they had forgotten it as a human. And... these scenarios can only happen when 'God' is supportive of the actions being chosen.. without that support nothing can happen at all.....

The universe takes away awareness from one sector of itself and so nothing happens there.. nothing can happen there until the awareness/focus is returned to it.

So, in effect Hitler did go to heaven along with all those who died by any means in order to show the world how fruitless it is to have world-wide warring.. and we must have learned from it because we have not allowed another such event to occur since, despite all the localised warring we do now days.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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We each have our own unique life while we are here. It is an individual test. When we suffer and are in need, that is one of the best times to ask for God's help. Many people don't ask, so then they do not receive.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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Are there any ATS members who know the Bible well enough to tell me where it says that God handed over the Earth to satan? If remember correctly there must be story which explains why satan is given the reign over the earth......for 1000 years or so...?

Thx



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 08:15 AM
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I believe I read that Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the Earth and that he could not have done that if he was not already in control of the kingdoms of the Earth. This was one of the temptations I believe Satan offered Jesus while he was starving for 40 days.

I believe God is not interfering because if God instantly healed one group of people, it would not be fair to only heal them, God would need to heal everyone to be fair. Then God would be interfering left and right everywhere. We might not even feel free to choose what we wanted to do in life out of fear. Satan would not have his chance to prove that his way works better than God's way. In spite of all that, I do believe some minor miracles are taking place.

Satan is having his chance to prove whether or not his way works. If we truly live for an eternity, a couple of thousand years to prove who's way is the correct choice isn't that long as far as experiments go. Many people here believe Satan's way is the right way to live. I don't agree with that. However Satan is in control of this world for now. He prefers that you don't even believe he exists. Seems to work well for him. One of my relatives claims to have seen him a few times. I'm not really sure what to think about that especially the part where Satan was watching me and my brother or the part where Satan appeared in our den. Fortunately I haven't heard of any recent Satan sightings. I never saw Satan unless he appeared in female form one night in a club and strangely wanted to talk to me. I do believe evil is running rampant today. People are suffering because many are doing evil things. That is Satan's way.

Maybe God is willing to help in certain circumstances with enough prayer and doing God's will. However God's way seems to be full of suffering while you're here on the Earth and that probably turns off a lot of people. Just think if Jesus was his only son and he sent him to suffer and die and be nailed up on a cross, what kind of suffering does he want the rest of his followers to endure? Maybe God only wants good things for us but it does make you wonder why so many suffer so much. Maybe God is offering the Roth IRA for souls (pay your taxes or suffering now, get rewards later) and Satan is offering the regular IRA for souls or pay your taxes or suffering later after you die plan.

edit on 23/4/11 by orionthehunter because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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I think this line of thinking comes from an assumption that this life we live now is the life that matters most. That is not to say children suffering in Africa is not painful for whatever is behind the scenes, know one can know for sure. The truth is, we have all we need on earth RIGHT NOW to cease hunger and most suffering, but it is the institutions of men that prevent it. I am sure whatever may be beyond is of a paradigm completely foreign to us, like a bacteria to a star...that may be the reason that death is the only way to shrug off the veil.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by zatara
 



In order to help someone, they have to accept help.

Humanity is choosing to hurt each other.

Is taking away free choice the help we need?



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by BigJedi
 


SO that means if i hunt down and kill somone... they actually wanted me to kill them if i am successfull?

your logic is disgusting.. and i can only hope i someday gain to power to enter your dreams and fix it.
edit on 21-4-2011 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)


If I start a thread I always read all the comments and try to understand them. But your reply on what BigJedi had to say completely escapes me and strikes me as odd. You probably have some reason to value his reasoning as disgusting and I would like to know where this comes from.

Some people consider you a genius and with all geniuses their thought processes are sometimes difficult to follow. So please, can you eloborate on your comment to BigJedi?






edit on 22-4-2011 by zatara because: I forgot a letter


I was thinking the same thing Zatara.



posted on Apr, 23 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 



Why was it again that God is not helping the ones in need?


Perhaps because those who don't have needs also don't search for Him? Case in point.. after the terrible events of 911 church attendance rose some 300-400%. Billions have to rely of the provision of God, not their stock portfolios.




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