Why was it again that God is not helping the ones in need?

That usually the last question one ask's, right before being conquered and exterminated - violence appears to be the entertainment of someone or thing. and that God would or would not allow -- I dont think is in the book - it would appear that prayer is one of the doomed prayers.
and let me tell you there are no athiest in fox holes when the rounds start raining in on your location.
so, I sort of asked this question too many times to the point - I really dont think he gives a damn.

reply to post by gmac10001


You lost me

Can you explain

reply to post by newcovenant


only in this dimension what if like space dimensions of possibilities are also endless like predicted in quantum physics, there for Physical life containing dualism is a microscopic part of whats really in existence.


but you are right to use Dualism is all we know cause its every were we look

reply to post by lastrebel


Should of had a comma, I doubt "God" sent anyone. but its advanced entities and false gods that have portaited themselves as Gods in order to bring about a personal agenda.

reply to post by gmac10001


the word is relative - its all relative a fractual of infinity.

reply to post by zatara


Is it possible that those who believe in a God/Creator desperately need to cling to a widely held misconception that It is wholly benevolent, when It simply is not?

One can try to justify endlessly that their God is benevolent in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary (eg. the needy not being helped) because they are unable to bear that thought that It is not, and that humankind is not being 'defended' by something all-powerful. Their security blanket would be gone...and then what?

It might be something akin to a child who continues to believe that an abusive parent actually 'loves' them, when time and time again this is disproved. They would choose to keep taking the abuse rather than submitting to the horror that they are not unconditionally being loved and protected.

That there is no supernatural intervention to those we feel need it is consistent with there being no extant deities who could do so.

reply to post by gmac10001


My point was that WE are here to help those in need. WE could stop the suffering any time we wished.

The only answer I can come up with... and, trust me, I ponder this a lot..... is that we are in a level of Hell. I never used to even believe in Hell until I came to this conclusion.

A place where those who have compassion and conscience suffer the most = Hell
A reality where one bad person creates hundreds/thousands of victims = Hell
etcetera... the list goes on and on.

And yet.... I have to quickly tell of something that happened to another CNA (certified nursing assistant) and I once while we were taking care of a 28-year-old mother dying of AIDS. Before entering her room, we had talked with one another about why such good people are allowed to suffer like we witness in our job... why? We entered with a lot of compassion for our patient, to put it mildly.

As we went on either side of the bed, with her lying in-between us..... we were suddenly both in an out of body experience... looking down from high above at the room with the three of us in it.... a bright light shown from behind us and the words, "Everything is exactly how it's supposed to be" were told to us..... then, we were back in our bodies and everything was as it was.

True story.

There are very powerful Beings watching over us in everything we do.

Every time I am fortunate enough to be given an answer... it seems to cause more questions.

reply to post by zatara


Well if it isn`t the "big bad god" reason for atheism... Yeah I know you said you are not an atheist, but your arguement comes from that point of view, so that`s how I`ll adress it. You see, god gave us the ability to help ourselves. The evil ones can only control us because we enjoy living in their predictable system. We decided we didn`t like living life the way it was meant to be lived. We like predictability. I like knowing that there`s a 99% chance that in 1 week at this time of day, or in 1 month, I will be on ats, laying in bed, listening to music on my tv with music choice set to "sounds of the seasons" where they play the acid jazz when there`s not a holiday going on, with a glass of Hawaiian Punch on ice next to me along with my cigarettes. We`ve all bought into The Lie, the lie that technology can save us. Sure we`ve supposedly come a long way... or does it just seem that way. Perhaps we have come a long way in the wrong direction. Another thing to consider when it comes to the people who suffer most on this planet, is that god IS each and every person including them. He suffers with them. And so do you, and I. We all must take our turn experiencing every life that has ever been. That`s why god created us and the universe so he could experience his creation which is life. He just had to give himself amnesia to add authenticity to the experience. If we want to stop the suffering, we could hypothetically do that, but it will take sacrifices from everyone. It must be a group effort. We as a species must stand up and say "we will not stand for this anymore".

Originally posted by gmac10001
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

thats good but has nothing to do with a Creator, good and evil is Dualism and only exists in a physical dimension.

There is no good or evil in the physical or objective realm... Its wholly subjective, interpreted... Thats my whole point... You can't rail about there being no God and all the evil in the world if in fact evil is all in our heads.... Which it is

Originally posted by gmac10001
reply to post by lastrebel

 

I doubt God sent anyone but false gods and advanced entities claiming such things, and the narrowest of minds bought into it.

Christ is the only one sent without a vested interest, with nothing to gain. His philosophy profits no aspect of life more than the peaceful co existence of differing viewpoints. His philosophy is the ONLY way those differing viewpoints can co exist together without one oppressing the other.
It does not favor any one more than any other. If anything it brings back to the conversation and equation: the little ones, the helpless, the abused, the poor, the weak, the sickly and the downtrodden and seriously think about it, if those areas of your society are in good standing then chances are your whole society is. Did the sick, poor and the children gather together and send a man in to represent them? And I say if a man or a false God did that - then that individual should be elected as God.
And The Christ? Only the widest open and most loving and charitable minds fall for this one. And they (we) do in droves.

You hit on a piece of doctrine that has been argued amongst believers and non believers alike for generations.My honost opinion as a believer, is that God cares little for human suffering. Which is evident when you view the untold number of human tragedies everyday. What moves God is faith. God cares about faith, not suffering.

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
I understand what you mean. I lost my faith many years ago and I have yet to find a reason to renew it. Many things have happened for this to happen to me (I'm not going to list them) but the most recent can be found in one of my threads.

Why I don't believe in God..


Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone their faith and if it is still as strong as always then I am truely happy for you. Just don't try and convince me I'm wrong.

Thx for your reply...I did go to your thread and read some interesting comments there too. Things that you could say to someone to make their terrible situation some more bareable. But in the end the question remains.....where is God when you need Him.

2 words, "Free Will"

I'm an agnostic atheist myself - I don't believe any human has provided evidence, or currently has the ability to reveal such wisdom, even our top scientists ( majority atheists btw )

I'm agnostic to fairies and unicorns too - Some may claim i can't prove they don't exist, but that's no reason to believe a theory, or put faith in it.

Scientists can't answer the "origins of reality" question (quite yet) ;

Is reality and the universe infinite? Did it have a beginning and will it have no end? Is there such a concept as "nothing"?

Generally, i don't put "faith" in unfalsifiable hypotheses, but i believe some unfalsifiable hypothesis, although unprovable, might not nessasarily be false, and not always irrational.

Take infinity, there's no evidence to prove it. But there may be a mathematical logic to such a theory:-



By no means am i urging this to be true, but the logic certainly beats that of the fundamental theist.

Whilst discovering myself, and what i think as an Atheist - I found two very interesting philosophical ponderings and, perhaps, observations that made my heart melt in agreement, as if they were my own thoughts:-

"Epicurean Paradox" - Or "The Problem of Evil"



"Euthyphro dilemma"



Based on the problem of evil, i'm a GNOSTIC atheist in regards to any religion, to any omnipresent theory. I'm gnostic as soon as someone claims truth to the existence of a God, and that God's "desires".

Gnostic/Agnostic - what you know
Theism/Atheism - what you believe...(or disbelieve)

Anyway, just thought i'd share my thoughts and reasoning, My intention wasn't to patronise, Apologies for the repeat of information if you've already seen/heard what i've posted.

Peace.

I'll leave you with this awesome metaphor pertaining to the OP:-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/806783f840ec.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by lastrebel


I 100 percent agree with you but WE choose not to because WE are out numbered by control freaks.

reply to post by newcovenant


That may be true if you had proof that Christ actually existed, or is it just a good bedtime story. There is proof of neanderthals, half a million years ago but no proof of this Incredible magical person 2000 years ago and faith isnt proof..not saying that he could not of existed just saying we really dont know.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Thank you for your thoughts and reasoning awake_and_aware, it is a clear-cut reply. The metaphor in the end of your comment does represent exactly what I am talking about. One star for you.

Maybe God is an answer we created, or allowed to be created for everything we cannot understand and explain with our little brainpower. But reality is that everything 'strange' is explainable as being part of nature.

Can it be that we are entering an age of conciousness that will make us understand that everything that is and will be is an act of nature and that the invention of God is something we need to leave behind us if we want to grow as a species here on the planet? I can not say that religion has kept us from growing intelectually and technologically but is has kept us from uniting as a race and live in peace.

Like many others I am not here to insult anyone but can there be more peace, less suffering and more understanding on earth if everybody would understand as a fact that there is no such thing as God or any other super, all powerful entity?

If God does excist I hope he will forgive me my sins and doubtfull thoughts but He can not blame me and others to think in this direction. He will not show Himself to make an end to all the religious conflicts and dispare in the world and he should understand that many are sick and tired of it all. If we want to find global peace and put an end to wars and suffering because of religious differences it will maybe a good idea to make people think again and declare God as just an imaginairy, powerless personal friend.

It is easy to stray away from topic with this subject...My doubt and little faith is nothing compared to the people who kept their faith while really suffering and even died without any confirmation of the presence of God.

According to His word there will be a time that there will be no doubt about His presence among the people and from then on everything will be peachy for everybody good....for a long long time. Why not now and before...that is what I mean..

Maybe "experienced" souls, reincarnate into bodies that "suffer" in order to show the rest of us what the "contrast" lesson is.

Starving children in third wolds, people killed, etc...are souls that "agree" to incarnate in those situations so that WE (everything being connected) see it and say, "that is wrong!". To know what LOVE is, we must experience HATE. If my sister did not appreciate life, or didn't know what compassion is, I would incarnate into a body that suffers so that she will see/feel the experience and therefor feel/learn compassion.

It's all about experiencing "everything" and experiencing "contrast" so that we can grow, understand, learn. Creation grows with experience like the individual person grows through experience throughout it's life. You learn, then move on to the next lesson.