Bible verses clearly condone the Killing of Gays and Witches.

reply to post by halfoldman


The Old Testament is not the true moral guidance to the Christians. It may have been one for the ancient Jews. It shows how cruel God can be, if humans behave not the way they are designed.

And the bible was written by frauds and cheats, obviously they'd condone immoral acts.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by halfoldman

 

The Old Testament is not the true moral guidance to the Christians. It may have been one for the ancient Jews. It shows how cruel God can be, if humans behave not the way they are designed.

"The Old Testament is not the true moral guidance to the Christians. It may have been one for the ancient Jews. It shows how cruel God can be, if humans behave not the way they are designed."

I kinda agree with this guy, especially if the perpetrator was occluded.

The Mafioso say never harm women nor children/.... I knind of agree with that too.

Originally posted by diamount
And the bible was written by frauds and cheats, obviously they'd condone immoral acts.

Uhm. No. those who knew they could use your so called Bible over you, did.

Originally posted by lastrebel

Originally posted by halfoldman
Now, for Biblical literalism, or people who argue that the Bible is so wonderful and just, I'm wondering: Jesus said the laws of Moses stay.

No

The laws of Moses were overriden by the law of Jesus upon his death. The Old Testament laws no longer apply....thats why we eat pork, etc.

Consider it for a moment though

Even if Jesus did in fact overwrite the old laws with the new laws...that means what?
God hates gays, hates witches, hates pigs, etc...but knows man sucks at executing his punishments, so took that off the table.

What sort of deity hates anything that is natural or different?

Are you saying moses made it all up then and was not speaking on behalf of God? Well, ok...but then why did jesus give him credit and the commandments as part of the requirements to get into heaven?

Does that mean jesus is invalid then?

and if the OT is invalid and manmade...why is it connected with the new testiment?

what sort of deity loves the smell of burnt offerings and hates shellfish?

the bible is illogical, the people that know the bible and still follow it as holy are even more illogical.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by halfoldman

 

The Old Testament is not the true moral guidance to the Christians. It may have been one for the ancient Jews. It shows how cruel God can be, if humans behave not the way they are designed.

so much for free choice.

I prefer to spend my eternity away from jackasses that want to torture humans should they misstep.

no wonder they call the christians "sheep".

I suppose he also condones slavery, genocide and incest as well?

Originally posted by Tulkor
Gays and Witches...now being categorized in the same group.

Each group can work a special kind of magic.

Just saying.

Oh look ANOTHER I hate Christians/Religions/God/Jews/Muslims e.t.c. Thread!
Who would have thunk it?... *YAWN*
Why cant there be a little Mystery in the Religious Conspiracy Threads instead of a ANOTHER "Religion is the worst thing in the universe, and its adherents are Stupid/Ignorant/Hateful/Hypocritical" thread?
I mean really, I have never in all my life seen as much hypocrisy as I do in these threads by BOTH sides of the argument.
"Christians are dumb and hypocritical cause they judge people"

The Old Testament was written to the Hebrews 3000 years ago.

The laws are harsh, because they lived in a harsh world. One where Philistines and Egyptians thought nothing of killing a Jew or selling his kids into slavery. One where Romans could crucify the 90,000 runaway slaves that tried to follow Spartacus into liberty.

The OT was to set the Jews apart from their neighbors, so they would keep an identity as "one nation" through history. The ones who practiced divination, etc., wandered away from the Bible and its religion, losing their identity in the process.

What happened to all their neighbors? The Jebusites, the Midianites, the Ninevites? They have all gone extinct, because they had no defining "book of laws" that told them what it means to be a member of "our tribe."

Even in the OT, you can read the Hebrews struggling with the idea that God loves non-Jews, and that they are not supposed to oppress the "alien" (non-Jew) living in your land.

Or passages like passages like Isaiah 1, where God says he is sick of blood sacrifices and empty sabbath-ceremonies. Or Micah 6, where he tells them that all they really need to do is get over themselves and implement justice for the oppressed.

Those were big, dangerous ideas in 1000 BC.

Likewise, Jesus said that he fulfilled the OT in his ministry, and so that his own disciples didn't have to bother with it. It's laid out in Romans 14.


It's amusing that the people who are sure the Bible is a BAD BOOK are insistent that you read it their way, and reach their conclusions. Just like the believes want you to read it the other way.

Either way, there's always someone handy to tell you how you should understand what you read....

I think all of you read the wrong Bible.

King James Version.


.Forget the dumbarses that say they know, no matter what the delusion.

In the bible, under jewish law, there is a HUGE difference between "killing" and "murder". Just like ignorant people think the commandment is "thou shall not kill". WRONG. It is "you will not murder". HUGE difference.

I see halfoldman has left us to it.
and halfoldman never said he was against it.
halfoldman sugested he is all for it?
(killing gays and witches)
as for as I can see.
he started this to get people to think about doing it.
we have the radical muslims who will kill gays & witches.
there are a lot of pagans out there.
they are not safe.
what do you say halfoldman?

Let me guess, something from Exodus or any number of the OLD TESTAMENT books? Listen people, I don't know how many times it has to be said, but when Jesus did his thing......there was a NEW TESTAMENT for a reason....it is a new covenant. A new set of rules. It rendered the OLD TESTAMENT invaild, contractually. Now there is some good history there and great stories of heroism and brutal law (in comparison to today), but, the laws are now subject to the will of Jesus Christ via the new covenant. We are no longer allowed to kill gays and things like that. Just admonish them. But seriously, I don't even do that. It seems that the more you tell someone they are wrong the more they hate you. If I am ASKED, I will give one my opinion as digestable as I can but other than that, I just let people be people. None of my business. As the old saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone. If the will to change is not there or the belief that one can change, there is no use in doing anything but setting an example in the name of Christ......even then they will still hate you, simply for what you represent. I think the gays are dealing with nearly the same problem....just on the other side of the fence...or closet door. Anyway, we can't kill them.....you will be a murderer and you will go to prison and then when you die you will have Hell to look forward to. Movin' on.

Originally posted by PurpleSun
In the bible, under jewish law, there is a HUGE difference between "killing" and "murder". Just like ignorant people think the commandment is "thou shall not kill". WRONG. It is "you will not murder". HUGE difference.

Even Marilyn Manson has some wisdom (believe it or not) when he said in a parental court hearing "Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit or fun". The only things that changes the meaning of the word are....intent and motive, (legally) or as GOD will see it....the stain it leaves on your heart.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by lastrebel

Originally posted by halfoldman
Now, for Biblical literalism, or people who argue that the Bible is so wonderful and just, I'm wondering: Jesus said the laws of Moses stay.

No

The laws of Moses were overriden by the law of Jesus upon his death. The Old Testament laws no longer apply....thats why we eat pork, etc.

Consider it for a moment though

Even if Jesus did in fact overwrite the old laws with the new laws...that means what?
God hates gays, hates witches, hates pigs, etc...but knows man sucks at executing his punishments, so took that off the table.

What sort of deity hates anything that is natural or different?

Are you saying moses made it all up then and was not speaking on behalf of God? Well, ok...but then why did jesus give him credit and the commandments as part of the requirements to get into heaven?

Does that mean jesus is invalid then?

and if the OT is invalid and manmade...why is it connected with the new testiment?

what sort of deity loves the smell of burnt offerings and hates shellfish?

the bible is illogical, the people that know the bible and still follow it as holy are even more illogical.

Hello, if you consider the OPs line, which commandment are you referring to? I don't recall anything about homosexuality in the top ten, although worshipping false idols may or may not pertain to witchcraft, but even then, nothing about killing such folks.

reply to post by tinfoilman

So, in a way you could say it doesn't matter what the OT says as long as you follow the NT you'll be fine. And the NT doesn't say to kill homosexuals. It says to love the sinner and hate the sin. You don't have to kill him because Jesus paid for his sins too. So, you'd be punishing him for nothing. Jesus already took that punishment onto himself just like he took the punishment for everyone's sins.

First off, nice post in general. I appreciate your outlook and the love behind it.

I did want to disagree slightly (to no real effect) about Christ paying for the sins of homosexuals, in your example - I'll just extend that out to any and all sinners who haven't repented of and turned from their sins. The price was paid, yes, but the gift not yet accepted, so they remain in their sins and of the world.

Regardless, your point is correct and well taken. It reminds me of Romans 14, although the context of the whole chapter doesn't really apply - but I like this verse for all cases where we try to pass judgement on anything (beyond an attempt to advise of error and provide correction):

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls...

As we were taught, none of us are without sin, so we cannot cast the first stone OR judgement against any others as we have too many of our own faults to deal with. My personal struggle with the issue of the law is not about trying to impose it or its dictates outward on any others, but how to follow the NT to the best of my ability as you mention - Yahushua walked according to the law, and if we're in him then we ought to walk as he walked, so this is where my dissonance comes into play...

I probably make too much of it, but this is the way my mind works unfortunately. Thanks for the input and kind words, I suppose the best option is to not get caught up too much in the details and just live in love as best I can since he said that should cover the bases.

Be well.

reply to post by JerryB08


Well one you have to separate the terms killing and murder, they are two completely different things. If someone comes and tries to rape my wife I will kill him, it won't be Murder.

So don't in one paragraph say that killing in the name of religion is wrong and in the next reference the same act as murder because they are not the same thing. A lot of confusion is created when you use the wrong term for something.

The commandment of God of "Thou shall not Murder" Is just that, Ask any Jewish scholar and he will tell you that the term is not "Thou shall not Kill". That would be a contradiction because many times God instructs His people to kill.

As far as The concept of God creating queers and witches, no He didn't. He created man with free will, man then chose to act in ways that are either in accordance with His will or NOT in accordance with his will.

As to why God allows such things to occur, I could speculate all day long. It's easy to understand really once you know what our purpose for living is and the reason for living. they are NOT the same thing. Our reason for living as we do is to experience the self. The purpose of living is to prepare to become part of the whole again. Being homosexual serves only a purpose of self gratification, it is one of the most selfish acts one can do.

Anyone who then says that being gay isn't a choice I will laugh in their face. Being Gay is not a state of being. It is CHOOSNG to commit homosexual acts. You can claim to be gay and talk with the worst lisp in the world and you're not gay unless you commit sexual acts with someone of the same sex.

I'm not going to go into a two hour dissertation here, so I'll cut it short, but get your terms correct please.

Jaden

Originally posted by PurpleSun
In the bible, under jewish law, there is a HUGE difference between "killing" and "murder". Just like ignorant people think the commandment is "thou shall not kill". WRONG. It is "you will not murder". HUGE difference.

According to the words written in the New Testament there’s going to be a mass culling (killing) much greater than the killings that were recorded in the Old Testament under “Jewish law” as you mentioned. It’s referred to as the “second death” which is to occur at the final resurrection of the dead where “… the dead, small and great, standing before God…. were judged according to their works … “

According to these writings those on that list for the mass killing are to be “the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Wow-where to start? First of all there are two types of Old Testament laws - the first is an action in which our Creator doesn't want us to participate (adultery, witchcraft, working on the Sabbath,etc) and the second is the type punishment that should be meted out for certain behaviors illustrating just how bad He considered them. Jesus (or Yahushua as my particular brand of Christianity calls Him) did not come to destroy the laws of Moses but to fulfill them - to take the punishment due. That's why He DIED. The punishment laws are the only ones that are nullified by His death and resurrection. It's still wrong to commit adultery, witchcraft, working on the Sabbath, or eating a ham sandwich. That's why true believers when they ponder His death are overcome with a grateful love that makes it extremely difficult to eat that ham sandwich knowing that a person cared enough to take on their punishment for doing so. Not to say that true believers don't screw up - we do- but hopefully it's never a big thing like stoning a fellow screw-up to death for adultery or witchcraft or homosexuality.
Yahushuah's time down here was to illustrate how the laws were to be observed and to nullify all the EXTRA rules that the Pharisees and Sadducees had added to the Scriptures. Yahushuah did not break any of the Old Testament rules - he did break "Jewish" man-made rules. I would also like to point out that the Apostle Peter's vision regarding unclean animals had nothing to do with nullifying dietary laws. It was the Creator's way of explaining to Peter that non-Jewish believers were equally loved and redeemed by His son's sacrifice if they accepted the gift.
I would wish that all those who have such a bitter dislike of Christianity would look not at professed Christians as an example of Messiah, but at Messiah in the Scriptures and what He taught and how much He demonstrated the Father's love for everyone. Remember, if man could do it right, he wouldn't have needed a redeemer.