Since When Was Thinness Equated With Beauty?

reply to post by skitzspiricy


This sounds like a problem then.

How do we convince the majority of women this is a good idea?

lmao @ anyone thinking that fat automatically equals lazy and skinny automatically equals healthy. For someone like me who rows, is an active gardener and who has been lifting weights since I was 15, its a real wake up call that people are still holding on to misinformed ideas and are actually too damn lazy to see if they are actually true because...like it or not...there are those who think fat is ugly. And thats fine...you like what you like...but if you are going to use health as an excuse to call certain groups of people ugly...at least get to the truth of the matter. So in the spirit of this being ATS. Lets Deny a little ignorance shall we.....



myth: 65% of Americans are overweight

Truth: The federal government defines "overweight" and "obese" using the body mass index (BMI), a simple calculation based only on height and weight. "Normal" weight is defined as a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9. "Overweight" is defined as a BMI between 25 and 29.9. "Obese" is a BMI of 30 or higher. "Current interpretations of the revised guidelines stigmatize too many people as overweight, fail to account for sex, race/ethnicity, age, and other differences; and ignore the serious health risks associated with low weight and efforts to maintain an unrealistically lean body mass … This seeming rush to lower the standard for overweight to such a level that 55% of American adults find themselves being declared overweight or obese raises serious concerns."

"Current interpretations of the revised guidelines stigmatize too many people as overweight, fail to account for sex, race/ethnicity, age, and other differences; and ignore the serious health risks associated with low weight and efforts to maintain an unrealistically lean body mass … This seeming rush to lower the standard for overweight to such a level that 55% of American adults find themselves being declared overweight or obese raises serious concerns.

Myth: Obesity will significantly shorten life expectancy

Truth: In May 2005, Science magazine published an article on the controversy over obesity deaths following the publication of a paper by Dr. Katherine Flegal and co-authors that said the number of deaths from excess weight was just one-fifteenth what the CDC said it had been. In the article, Olshansky appeared to back off his conclusions about life expectancy. According to Science:

"Olshansky now says that in light of Flegal's recent paper on obesity deaths and a companion paper that she, Williamson, and other CDC scientists authored in the same issues of JAMA, his life expectancy forecasts might be inaccurate."


Myth: Overeating is the primary cause of obesity

Truth:"These results suggest that habitual activity plays an important role in weight gain, with no parallel evidence that energy intake had a similar role … The composite findings from NGHS so far indicate that the drastic decline in habitual activity during adolescence might be a major factor in the doubling of the rate of obesity development in the USA in the past two decades, since no concomitant increase in energy intake was apparent."
-Lancet, 2005


myth: You cant be overweight and healthy

Truth: "Groundbreaking work on fitness and weight has been done by [epidemiologist Steven] Blair and colleagues at the Cooper Institute. They have shown that the advantages of being fit are striking and that people can be fit even if they are fat … and thus have lowered risk of disease. A remarkable finding is that heavy people who are fit have lower risk than thin people who are unfit."
-Dr. Kelly Brownell, Director of the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, 2003

"Consistently, physical inactivity was a better predictor of all-cause mortality than being overweight or obese."

"There was a steep inverse gradient between fitness and mortality in this cohort of men with documented diabetes, and this association was independent of BMI … Obese men with fitness levels greater than the lowest quartile were at no increased risk for mortality when compared with men in the reference group."
-Diabetes Care, 2004

"[A] fit man carrying 50 pounds of body fat had a death rate less than one-half that of an unfit man with only 25 pounds of body fat."
-Harvard Health Policy Review, 2003

Myth: Obesity kills 400,000 americans annually

Truth: On March 9, 2004, the heads of the Department of Health and Human Services, National Institutes of Health (NIH), and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) stood in front of a packed press conference to announce the conclusions of a CDC study that attributed 400,000 deaths each year to poor diet and physical inactivity. USA Today typified the press coverage the next day with its lead story, "Obesity on Track as No. 1 Killer."

A little over one year later, a scientifically superior study conducted by researchers from the CDC and the NIH found that obesity and overweight were responsible for fewer than 26,000 deaths per year—one-fifteenth the CDC’s original 400,000-deaths estimate. Despite sustained publicity surrounding the larger number, a CDC spokesman told The New York Times that the agency would not take a position on the new paper because "We’re too early in the science." A month later the agency reluctantly accepted the findings of the report.

-Annals of Epidemiology, 2002

Source: www.obesitymyths.com...


And as a footnote...anyone who thinks that being able to give a lapdance or some other crap is what makes a good lover....man o man are you missing out on some great sex. I wont get graphic due to the rules of the forum but I didnt pull my screen name out of thin air. I earned it.

It is Said there is no accounting for taste..
I just switched from square framed to round framed wire rim glasses...

I'm getting hit on TWICE as often as I was before...
?
and by Girls a lot yonger then I am...


?!
the anti glare coating?

reply to post by irsuccubus


Take a walk around any US city - what do you see? Fat people, all over the place. The same can be said for the UK. Now, take a walk around Japan and see a much healthier race. Fat people stick out like dogs balls over there because they are so rare. Now to say that all fat people are unhealthy and all slim people are healthy is rubbish - but in general terms fat = an unhealthy lifestyle and it looks horrible to boot. There, deal with it.

reply to post by 3finjo


Deal with what? You say that as if you have just thrown a gauntlet in the sand, What the hell do I care what people on the internet think? I am simply adding in some facts rather than conjecture so that the debate is more even handed. Me personally....never had a problem getting a date. If anything my association with things like ATS is what would scare a guy off. Smart, non-sheep chicks are even bigger pariahs than fat ones.

Naa, I can no longer say obese people are unhealthy or even that their lifestyle is somehow bad.
I worked with this girl for a year, she wanted to be in shape..and by that, I mean, hourglass..her decision, I liked her mind, she wanted a new body

So, we tried everything...she was naturally athletic and ran..alot..tons.
She did extreme cardio, competed in long distance running events, etc...this was nothing new to her

She went on a very low calorie diet, that didn't work..she went on a high calorie diet that did actually work a bit (lots of protein, low carbs though).

We studied alot, and basically there is different body types and metabolism rates...some people can just think about dieting and lose 10lbs, others can work their arse off and starve and barely move the scale..
there is a science behind it overall..

Personally, I like rounded girls, not obese mind you, not thin, but I am just speaking of initial attraction anyhow...after a bit of getting to know someone, what matters in the end is a great mind, a desire to try new things, and some kinky sex (actually, they all relate)

Originally posted by 3finjo


One poster used Japan as an example implying that the reason there were no fat women in Japan was a bad thing! Having lived in Japan i can tell you two things - the Japanese diet is much healthier and Japanese people in general are more active than the average westerner. It is a common sight to see women in their eighties still riding their bicycles everywhere.

Yes, that would be me. I've spent nearly a year around the Tokyo area and I assure you urban Japanese people are not in general more active than the average westerner. Just because they ride bicycles everywhere it does not mean they are active. They ride bicycles because their roads are too small for everyone to have a privately owned vehicle.

It is true, the Japanese diet naturally keeps you thinner, but that does not make it healthier. I have a Japanese friend who used to live in America and he was slightly overweight when he was here. When he moved back to Japan he lost at least 20 pounds in the first few months and has stayed thin ever since. This does NOT mean he is healthy. While when he lived in America he could beat me in an arm wrestle with both arms (he's a lefty I'm a righty), now I can beat him with both arms. The Japanese diet makes you physically weaker and smaller than a Western diet.

Also, I have friends and family that have went through the Japanese school system, and Japanese people spend all day studying and working and rarely work out. While in school, they go to primary school, and then after the school day is over they typically go to cram school, and then go home and do homework until they sleep. Lifting weights, going to the gym, running, and doing things to stay fit is almost nonexistant in urban Japan because no one needs to exercise in order to stay thin... they already are thin.

So I stand by my original theory that more industrialized areas are more prone to view skinny as beautiful.

reply to post by irsuccubus


Thank you, love this post, it really opened my eyes, thank you thank you.

Looks to me like possible government conspiracy material.

Originally posted by circuitsports
to the op grow up - thin chicks have more energy and feel better about themselves which tanslates into more sex. If your old enough to type your old enough to know that. On her 40th birthday Cindy Crawford gave her husband a lap dance in the middle of a night club - fat girls don't do that.

To circuitsports, you have no argument. Don't tell me to grow up without an argument.

What part of my argument are you attacking by telling me to grow up? None. I never said thin chicks feel better or worse about themselves. But I will disagree with you on your point because you are grossly over-generalizing. Having energy and feeling better about yourself has more to do with personality and attitudes than it does outward appearances. Yes, how society percieves you can affect your personality and attitudes, but there are still plenty of fat girls that have lots of energy and A LOT of thin girls that barely exercise at all.

And as for your last comment about Cindy Crawford... You sound more intelligent when you are not talking.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I am the last person to say that someone HAS to give a certain group a chance as far as dating and the like. We all have our preferences and humans are very visual creatures. That being said, there are those who would use misinformation as justification to treat a certain group as less than human. And it happens. Fat people are one of the last groups its okay to treat like #. I dont care if people disagree or agree...it is what it is. And if you wanna admit freely that you just think they are disgusting and hate them for whatever reason...whatever. The world will always have people who want to embrace trivial matters. But dont be a coward. dont try to use science to push your agenda if the science doesnt actually agree with what you are saying. Every day I see posts from people who are angry because someone is doing just that. If its not the government its the christians or the PTB or the lone ufologists, take your pick, lol. So why is this different? Because its funny when fatty falls down right??? Because being thin means you must somehow be a better person right? *sigh*..sadly...it will almost always boil down to the cosmetic. The surface. Its just people dont like admitting to being that shallow. All this talk about looks dont matter is so we dont look like tools but they do matter. The million dollar question is how much is inherent and how much is conditioned? We have no idea simply because we are all lab rats at this point. Conditioning within our society runs so very deep that no one is immune 100% of the time. Some dude once upon a time said something about judging people on the content of their character as opposed to something silly like skin color. Seems to me that weight might be thrown in the bag too since it has NOTHING to do with who you are as a person. I know some beautiful monsters. And they use that beauty as a weapon because they know that people are so easily enslaved by it. Every day we rally against tyranny and yet seek to embrace a tyrannical psychical ideal of uniformity right down to how much we weigh. wow. thats somethin.

reply to post by irsuccubus


Why bother
ultimately if a person is overly concerned about weight more than mind, they are going to be effing miserable in a few years anyhow.
Love the mind, the body is a bonus.

and be a good succubus

reply to post by kro32


Ahahahaha, that's hilarious. Beautiful women who can't give birth. Well, except the fact that this would be crushing to your average woman's perception of herself. I guess time will tell.

Wow there have been alot of good eye opening posts in this thread.I keep saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I believe that.I think that there have been stereotypes on both sides of the bodytype issue which I wish that we could get over.But to each his or her own variety is the spice of life. The only thing i can add is that when you find that special someone love that person for who they are no matter what there body type.Because what happens if that skinny girl/guy you are with gains weight?Do you stay with him/her or dump them?And the same with the heavey girl/guy loosing wieght?

Originally posted by irsuccubus
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

I am the last person to say that someone HAS to give a certain group a chance as far as dating and the like. We all have our preferences and humans are very visual creatures. That being said, there are those who would use misinformation as justification to treat a certain group as less than human. And it happens. Fat people are one of the last groups its okay to treat like #. I dont care if people disagree or agree...it is what it is. And if you wanna admit freely that you just think they are disgusting and hate them for whatever reason...whatever. The world will always have people who want to embrace trivial matters. But dont be a coward. dont try to use science to push your agenda if the science doesnt actually agree with what you are saying. Every day I see posts from people who are angry because someone is doing just that. If its not the government its the christians or the PTB or the lone ufologists, take your pick, lol. So why is this different? Because its funny when fatty falls down right??? Because being thin means you must somehow be a better person right? *sigh*..sadly...it will almost always boil down to the cosmetic. The surface. Its just people dont like admitting to being that shallow. All this talk about looks dont matter is so we dont look like tools but they do matter. The million dollar question is how much is inherent and how much is conditioned? We have no idea simply because we are all lab rats at this point. Conditioning within our society runs so very deep that no one is immune 100% of the time. Some dude once upon a time said something about judging people on the content of their character as opposed to something silly like skin color. Seems to me that weight might be thrown in the bag too since it has NOTHING to do with who you are as a person. I know some beautiful monsters. And they use that beauty as a weapon because they know that people are so easily enslaved by it. Every day we rally against tyranny and yet seek to embrace a tyrannical psychical ideal of uniformity right down to how much we weigh. wow. thats somethin.

Lol I'm not sure how much of this is a reply to my post and how much is a rant but I will agree with your million dollar question. "How much is inherent and how much is conditioned?"

For me, the part of interest is not only how MUCH is conditioned, but HOW we are conditioned, and that is really what I'm trying to get at in this thread. There are many possibilities as to how we are conditioned whether it is industrialization and the creation of the Proletariat, our resources, our peers, our government, the media... and then I wonder IF it's possible if all of these different conditioning methods are connected, and that is where the conspiracy would be. Because think of how much money runs through our economy based on trying to look good.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

reply to post by othello


I guess that would depend on a lot of things. If you start to feel repulsed by the sight of your partner due to obesity, regardless of how you feel about them as a person and the sexual chemistry is gone then why stay with them? Also a large gain in weight is often accompanied by emotional issues as well and a depressed person is very hard to stay with, especially if you spend several years trying to help them out of it to no avail.

reply to post by jstanthrno1

Originally posted by jstanthrno1



The left one and the middle are perfect and the right is just too big.

edit on 21-4-2011 by jstanthrno1 because: change mind

It all boils down to personal preference I suppose. I think the girl on the right is the best looking woman in that trio. By far!

The one on the left is too skinny for my tastes and the girl in the center is also attractive but not so much as Ms. Right.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Heavy set, petite, slender or buxom, women are exquisite... but fake boobs and fat that collects wet lint kinda repels me.

Though low self-esteem and daddy issues have gotten more men laid than alcohol, and might be considered today's beauty standard...

Originally posted by Baddogma
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

Heavy set, petite, slender or buxom, women are equisite... but fake boobs and fat that collects wet lint kinda repels me.

Though low self-esteem and daddy issues have gotten more men laid than alcohol, and might be considered today's beauty standard...

edit on 4/21/2011 by Baddogma because: type-O

Dude, I just laughed so friggin hard, I spit coffee all over myself after reading your post hehehe

reply to post by 3finjo


Ok I can see where you are coming from.There would be alot of factors involved and every couples situation would be different.I was just trying to get at are we so shallow of people that we would leave our partner because of weight gain or loss.And if so is looks the only thing we are after.I hope this isn't to off topic and hopefully i don't step on anyones toes.

reply to post by Wang Tang


most was rant, I'll own that, but to address the post above...billions of dirty dirty dollars.Here is some interesting info from ywca.org

-7 billion per year spent on cosmetics
-11.7 million cosmetic surgical and nonsurgical procedures were performed in the United States in 2007 with 91% being done on women, that represents an increase of nearly 500% in the overall number of cosmetic procedures in the past ten years.
-Discrimination against overweight people in the workplace is a widespread practice. According to one researcher
who has examined 30 studies about weight-based discrimination, “weightbased discrimination consistently affects every aspect of employment, from hiring to firing, promotions, pay allocation, career counseling and discipline.”

• According to a study of women between
the ages of 25-45 in the United States,
67% of women (excluding those with
actual eating disorders) are trying
to lose weight; 53% of dieters are
already at a healthy weight and are still
trying to lose weight

39% of women have concerns about
what they eat or weigh interfere with
their happiness

According to a study, 13% of women
smoke to lose weight

According to the American Lung
Association, “Women have been
extensively targeted in tobacco
marketing dominated by themes of an
association between social desirability,
independence, weight control and
smoking messages conveyed through
advertisements featuring slim, attractive,
and athletic models.”

40% of newly-diagnosed cases of eating
disorders are in girls 15-19 years old,
but symptoms can occur as young as
kindergarten

Also according to the American Lung
Association, “Teenage girls often start
to smoke to avoid weight gain and to
identify themselves as independent
and glamorous, which reflect images
projected by tobacco ads. Social images
can convince teens that being slightly
overweight is worse than smoking.
Cigarette advertising portrays
cigarettes as causing slimness and
implies that cigarette smoking
suppresses appetite

www.ywca.org...

So follow the money. Who has the most to gain from making women feel enough like crap that they turn to their products? Well the tobacco industry seems to be making out like bandits, as does the unnecessary surgery racket, lol.