NJ woman chides NYC smoker, gets stabbed with pen (smoking verses non smoking)

Ok, first I will post what brought me to making this thread and yes, once again I used the original title of article out of respect, but I really have more to say on the subject.

NEW YORK – A New Jersey woman was stabbed in the face with a pen on a New York City subway train after she tried to stop a man from lighting a cigarette. The assault occurred on a crowded No. 3 train near the Chambers Street station during Tuesday's morning rush. Witnesses told the Daily News and the New York Post that an argument quickly escalated when Evelyn Seeger asked the man not to smoke. The witnesses say two riders were trying to restrain the man when he pulled out a pen and slashed Seeger's face. Seeger, of Nutley, N.J., was treated at a hospital and released. Police charged the man with felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon.

Yes I quoted it all, but that is only because that was all there was to it, but here is the link if you must read it for itself. LINK

Now, do I agree with this? No. It is way over the top and uncalled for. The stabbing in the face part at least. Now I wasn't there and don't know all the factors of this particular situation, but I will venture a guess and say I highly doubt the non smoker said "Please if you don't mind." After all, this is Jersey and New York we are talking about here.

So, before I go any further, let me be the first to admit I am a smoker. I come from a time of owning a bar and even if I didn't, I could pretty much smoke anywhere. Then, one day, someone decided after years of it being ok, it wasn't. Just like that, and over night.

The non smokers have been heard and the laws changed. We went from one extreme to the other in a blink of the eye.

Now usually I am pretty aware of my surroundings if I am smoking and I mean this from the time when it was ok to smoke. If I knew it bothered someone, I did my best to keep it away from them. Out of respect and just being polite.

So lets us move forward so this isnt all long and drawn out. Now, I spend most of my time outside if I am out with friends be it a bar or out for dinner. My comfort zone and good time moment is pretty shot basically. For a smoker in that kind of environment is uncomfortable. For so long one was used to beer and cigs. go together. A smoke while out enjoying a meal relaxing, being yourself was a nice comfort zone. Getting up between beers or a serving is just as stressing I suppose as the ones that had to put up with the smokers to being with.

I am sure many of the smokers have run across that person that makes it obvious they don't like your smoking even in a place you can by waving their hands in front of their nose or the little cough cough thing. That is pretty annoying too.

I could go on and on here, the pros and cons, and yes I could quit and settle the problem, but the thing is, I don't Want to quit. If I did, I Would.I happen to Like Smoking period.

I sure dont go out as much now just because it is such a hassle to try and relax when I know I can't be myself. Screw that, Ill just stay home, no fuss, no muss.

What I really dont get it IS
why dont they just compromise? Put a sign on the door,"This is a smoking establishment," or This is a "Non Smoking establishment." Then water can seek its own level and the smokers wont bother the non smokers and visa versa. Is it really that tough to make it that simple? Or, this is a smoking flight and this one isn't. Book your preference.

I just dont think one extreme to the other is the answer when it could be settled so easily with a simple catering sign on the door.

Have we goten so complex that simplicity has fallen to the wayside?

reply to post by onehuman

man when he pulled out a pen and slashed Seeger's face.

First off, the article states that her face was slashed not stabbed?


Secondly, I think there are other variables we need to consider? Were there no smoking signs present? ( I dont live there so i dont know)

Another thing to consider, is if there aren't any posted signs and laws infringing on smoking anyhow, the other passengers have no right to interfere with a man and his smoke.

The article doesnt address these issues, so its debatable at the very least.

No one has the right to not be offended.

I am highly allergic to cigarette smoke. If I breath it in my breathing immediately becomes difficult. That might be the "cough cough" thing you find so annoying.

I find not breathing annoying. I guess it depends on your point of view.

Well, you have no idea whether she asked him politely or not. She may have had asthma or breathing problems, so she mightn't have necessarily been a busybody.

It also says that two people tried restraining him before he stabbed her, suggesting that he was the one who was acting in the most aggressive manner.

However, I agree with you that private establishments should be allowed to permit smoking or not, down to their own discretion, just so long as it's clearly signposted before punters enter the premises.

Originally posted by Jefferton
I am highly allergic to cigarette smoke. If I breath it in my breathing immediately becomes difficult. That might be the "cough cough" thing you find so annoying.

I find not breathing annoying. I guess it depends on your point of view.

But you have just as much ability to stand up and leave as the guy does have the ability to light up and smoke. No one is forcing you to stay in the given environment. You made that choice.....

reply to post by HabaneroPepper


People walk by me a thousand times a day blowing smoke at me, is there a special out doors just for lame people like me who like breathing?

Need to ban pens. This wouldn't have happened if pens were banned.

Originally posted by Jefferton
reply to post by HabaneroPepper

 

People walk by me a thousand times a day blowing smoke at me, is there a special out doors just for lame people like me who like breathing?

With that logic, why doesn't the government intervene and deem it illegal for walking near you. Would that make you happy. Infringing on others rights to make you happy, does that seem logical to you?

Well they say the pen is mightier than the sword I think this is one of those incidents that you really had to be there to really judge. She could be the biggest douche on the planet for all we know or the smoker could have been a crazy tramp. Agreed with the above op they will probably want to ban the sale of pens without a licence next

reply to post by HabaneroPepper


Breathing makes me happy, holy hell.

What about my rights?

I hate that little cough cough people give when they want you to know they dont like your smoke. I just ignore them though. I remember going clothes shopping with a smoke in mouth.. lol or in the restaurants. Of course the bars.

Being stabbed in the face though kinda sucks. Werent they on a train? since when can you smoke in a train? Amercians, or more accurately, New Yorkers!

You will be assimilated, no matter how strange or inconvenient or asinine the rules are that we make.
To draw a long bow example, if we can convince enough people that euthenasia is just and merciful then we can also convince some of them to kill themselves when they start to collect retirement benefits because it's financially harming society.

reply to post by Jefferton


You have rights too, I'm not claiming you dont. You have the right to walk in a different area, or travel a different direction, or by other means.

Do you have the right to have others cater to your needs?

The witnesses say two riders were trying to restrain the man when he pulled out a pen and slashed Seeger's face.

Sounds like Self defense to me

reply to post by Le Colonel


Instead of ignoring them, have you though to tell them to "go and get [fbombed]"?

For the record, I am not a smoker but you are and I think God is probably just fine with that.
Consideration for others and tolerance always goes a long way regardless of your habits...Sometimes we are a bit precious tho.

What I find fascinating is that the gov decided to have people (smokers vs. non) to duke it out, while they allow the company to have no liability. I am a smoker, and I dont want to quit, and I am lucky enough to now live in a place where we still have smoking and non smoking areas, but I also lived in NYC and there really is no other way I would have seen that situation going.

Those who choose not to smoke (this will upset some of you) decided to make it harder for people who are addicted to the ingredients to have to change their lives, as opposed to understanding that the ingredients is what makes smokers in the first place. Boycott a company, dont worry about what a person does with their lungs, and the air (sorry to say) we ALL share, seems like an never ending vicious circle.

Peace, NRE,

Originally posted by HabaneroPepper
With that logic, why doesn't the government intervene and deem it illegal for walking near you. Would that make you happy. Infringing on others rights to make you happy, does that seem logical to you?

There's a certain inevitability to where this thread is going, so I might as well ask...

Why do you believe that you have the ''right'' to emit potentially harmful chemicals on unsuspecting and non-consenting members of the public ?

Why does your self-proclaimed ''right'' to indulge in this activity trump the ''right'' for people to walk about without needlessly being subjected to harmful toxins ?

Well there is no smoking on all NYC transit property. Buses, trains, platforms and stations smoking is not allowed.

He was definitely wrong in his actions and no smoking is a well known rule here in nyc transit, there are signs on buses and trains, very clear.

Someone should give him the same treatment.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by HabaneroPepper
With that logic, why doesn't the government intervene and deem it illegal for walking near you. Would that make you happy. Infringing on others rights to make you happy, does that seem logical to you?

There's a certain inevitability to where this thread is going, so I might as well ask...

Why do you believe that you have the ''right'' to emit potentially harmful chemicals on unsuspecting and non-consenting members of the public ?

Why does your self-proclaimed ''right'' to indulge in this activity trump the ''right'' for people to walk about without needlessly being subjected to harmful toxins ?

Well first, no one has ownership of the outside environment ( provided not on a state owned park etc). So why should non-smokers have any more leverage over those that do. No one owns the air either.

Why does the right for those who dont smoke, trump the rights of those who do?

( see how I did that? yeah i just did that to your argument)

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You can apply that same same logic to car exhaust fumes. Anyway, i don't think there is enough information really, i doubt she was very polite about it though plus the man was being held down by two other people....could have been worse i guess.