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WikiLeaks suspect being moved out of Quantico

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posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by CosmosKid
 



Originally posted by CosmosKid
reply to post by Terrorist
 

No one seems to care when my "innocent" people get killed by someone with a an agenda.

I think you're referring to 9/11. How can you say no one seemed to care? That was a really big deal, and people did indeed care.

[...] my innocent people were US citizens so, they could not possibly be "innocent" right? [...]

I never said that, or even implied it, stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm an American citizen, so to the citizens of every other country in this world, that automatically makes them believe I'm evil and I'm guilty. So be it.

Maybe to idiots, but I seriously doubt that anyone in their right mind would believe that every American is bad just because their government did bad things. Every government does bad things.

I believe in avenging my "innocent" friends and countryman.

It seems like you're separating people into "their innocents" and "our innocents," inducing an "us or them" mentality. It's dangerous to simplify reality that much. It's not us against them in real life (well for some people it is; like the terrorists and perhaps some fringe people in the U.S. military)

I am entitled to kill as many of them as I posissbly can to kee my country and my fellow citizens safe.

Do you really think killing civilians in another country is making your fellow citizens safe? That's the very same as killing U.S. citizens! All men are created equal, are they not? Human rights aren't reserved for Americans.

[...] I know the there is a difference bewtween warfare and crime, but my enemies don't seem to want to play by those same rules. Great.

So because the enemy doesn't want to play by the "rules," it's okay for you to do the same? When you are fighting with that mentality, what the hell separates you from the people you're fighting?

[...] When we reach that day who's really gonna care anymore anyway! I just want to do whatever it takes to ensure that we win. At all costs.

Our present is tomorrow's history. It matters a hell of a lot to a lot of people that we end up on the right side of history. Wouldn't you hate ending up remembered as someone who was on (one of) the wrong side(s)? At all costs, you say? Even at our own humanity? When you kill an Iraqi or an Afghan that is a non-combatant, that is the exact same as killing an American. They are all human, just like you and I. The only difference between "us" and "them" is our nationalities.




posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


Coming from a family firmly rooted in the tradition of honor and defending the defensless, chivalry if you would, I have a hard time with this. I agree with you that when you become a member of the armed forces you swear an oath to your people and the constitution (in the US military anyway) and are honor bound to uphold that oath. So I agree, releasing knowledge that is not yours to release, and there has been no directive/order to do so by your superiors, then you are in violation of your oath as a soldier. However, part of that oath is to defend the constitution from both enemies abroad and enemies within. That is where this gets hairy and I forsee others making the same mistake this soldier did.

So in short I think he did the right thing for the people, but in the wrong way so as to violate his oath of duty and put America at possible risk. As you know sir, tis a fine line a soldier must walk when faced with both enemies without and enemies within. i do not believe this soldier should be physically punished, but surely he must never where the uniform again, as even though he had good intentions, he has proven himself untrustworthy to serve.

A traitor to his oath of service, yes, but a traitor to his people, I think that is too much.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC


Well he is still a criminal NO MATTER what ANYONE says,


Then why hasn't he been prosecuted yet? Why hasn't he been given a court martial? Some criminal, they can't even give him a simple dishonorable discharge.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by HomerinNC


he released classified material to unauthorized persons.


If it was really classified the media outlets would be prosecuted for distribution. If you don't think so, are you telling me they can federally prosecute a man for streaming a super bowl over the internet but not a media outlet for exposing state secrets?


A traitor and a scumbag in my book


Perhaps its in your book but who's buying it?


One day, some of you will realize that, if you take something thats not yours to take, or not yours to release, you WILL be punished.


which is why the U.S. is being punished for taking what does not belong to them: innocent lives


Its not the fact of what the material was, it was the fact he wasnt AUTHORIZED to release it


So you are for the rule of law, but not so when the government commits crimes. You're a hypocrite.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Vanishr
The only 'political scandal' involved here is jailing a freedom of speech activist, who tried to warn people of the horrible truths of the government.


"Freedom of Speech" doesn't include theft and release of classified documents or files.


freedom of speech should include whistle blowing war crimes. if governments never commited these crimes and told the truth people would not need to whistle blow. in this case it appears the government are the criminals.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by CosmosKid
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Yes, you can refuse to execute an order if you believe it is unlawfull. You will also have to prove the order was unlawfull. what Manning did wasn't so much in regards to "orders" and was more to do with personal accountability. He could have turned the information over to internal agencies thus utiluizing the chain of command to start an investigation. Instead, he chose to compromise the information with external entities hostile to and who have the intent of harming the United States of America. You know, folks like Hillary Clinton. So he willingly and without remorse endagered the national security of the US by choosing to work with it's enemies instead of going thru the chain of command. The information he divulged isn't his to do so with and he agreed to that before he was given access to it. When it comes out that he enlisted specifically to betray his country on behalf of his accomplises, he's gonna get life behind bars, at the minimum.


no first he tried to go through the correct channels. he was told to shut up.



Manning had more than adequate reason to be concerned about handing over Iraqi citizens for likely torture simply for producing pamphlets about corruption in a government notorious for its corruptness. Like any good soldier, Manning immediately took these concerns up the chain of command. And how did his superiors respond? His commanding officer told him to “shut up” and get back to rounding up more prisoners for the Iraqi Federal Police to treat however they cared to.
Now, you have already heard what the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff had to say about an American soldier’s duties when confronted with the torture and abuse of prisoners. Ever since our country signed and ratified the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture, it has been the law of our land that handing over prisoners to a body that will torture them is a war crime. Nevertheless, between early 2009 and August of last year, our military handed over thousands of prisoners to the Iraqi authorities, knowing full well what would happen to many of them. The next time Pfc. Manning encountered evidence of war crimes, he took a different course of action.


pulsemedia.org...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Terrorist
How can you be on this website yet still defend the U.S.?


Because I love my country and the ideals/freedoms and Constitution that we were founded on.
edit on 4/21/2011 by freakjive because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by CosmosKid
 




I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about war, which is what Manning was getting paid to do.



a solider should act lawfully even in times of war. there are laws in place regarding this for a reason and those laws have been violated.

kx



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by freakjive

Originally posted by Terrorist
How can you be on this website yet still defend the U.S.?


Because I love my country and the ideals/freedoms and Constitution that we were founded on.
edit on 4/21/2011 by freakjive because: (no reason given)


does that mean you love your government too...the same one that is trying to take your Constitutionual rights off you and lied to you about 911 and two illegal wars...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by purplemer
 


Perhaps you should reread my statement:
"I love my country and the ideals/freedoms and Constitution that we were founded on."

I never said anything about defending our government nor the elitest agenda driving our actions.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by purplemer
 


Perhaps you should reread my statement:
"I love my country and the ideals/freedoms and Constitution that we were founded on."

I never said anything about defending our government nor the elitest agenda driving our actions.


ty
i was just trying to understand what you were saying...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by PsykoOps
 



Umm the man he released them too. Mr. Wikki leaks admitted he got the classified documents from manning. look on you tube. There's video of As sage talking about Manning


i cant find it would you care to link plz...

kx



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 





China and Russia got most of the oil contracts for Iraq. What oil has the US stolen from whom? I recommend doing some research so you know what's really going on and not depend on DailyKos of Huffpo as they will always take the left-handed path. And please remember that BP is Rothschilds, so you can kick their azz for me any day of the week.


job done...



The Banking Law was issued September 19, 2003. The law brings Iraq’s legal framework for banking in line with international standards, and seeks to promote confidence in the banking system by establishing a safe, sound, competitive and accessible banking system.



www.cbi.iq...

kx



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


snip He does not deserve execution. I doubt he'll get it. IF only the government knew exactly how many people had a subversive mindset nowadays. Thanks to their actions as of late the number only grows and grows.






[Mod Note - No name calling please]
Mod Note - Please Review - We expect Civility and Decorum
edit on 22/4/2011 by Sauron because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by HomerinNC
which is what he deserves
He's a traitor and a disgrace to his uniform

Are you a zombie?


Isn't taking the sons and daughters of this country to a war based on lies and that is bankrupting this country way wayyy more treasonous?

How come with people like you accountability should only be present on "we the people" and NEVER the powers that be?

What a slave mentality
You are a slave trying to yell at others saying do not betray your slave masters.

It's 2011, we keep having wars based on lies and people like you still exist??????

Totally Agree



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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It's 2011, we keep having wars based on lies and people like you still exist??????



They are not really wars though. More like similar expensive catastrophes with the purpose of trying to get control over the middle east, amounting to an expensive string of failures.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 





Texti think its hypocritical to benefit what we do and then condemn them. do not like us foreign policy stop using the technology and products and goods and services that have come from here.


I would love to abandon and ignore any technology, products, goods and services that come from your country.
Unfortunately, Lockheed Martin seem to have bought the rights to collate all info pertaining to the UK census, so unless I say f**k you all to Lockheed and UK, I stand to go to jail and receive a fine for noncompliance.

Besides that, your McDonalds is sh*t in a heavily preserved 'bread' bun.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by CosmosKid
 





TextNo one seems to care when my "innocent" people get killed by someone with a an agenda. No one seems to care that they didin't get weepy and decide they should blow the whistle on they're political, military and spiritual leaders. But then again, that would be because my innocent people were US citizens so, they could not possibly be "innocent" right? . I personallty don't care what you find shocking. I'm an American citizen, so to the citizens of every other country in this world, that automatically makes them believe I'm evil and I'm guilty. So be it. I believe in avenging my "innocent" friends and countryman. I believe that if the folks that are so righteous and believe that killing US citizens is a direct order from some nut job holy dude or whatever that's ok! they're entitled to believe that if they want. I am entitled to kill as many of them as I posissbly can to kee my country and my fellow citizens safe. I'm entitled to believe what I want to. What I'm saying to you is that I know the there is a difference bewtween warfare and crime, but my enemies don't seem to want to play by those same rules. Great. Fine. Eventually, one side ot the other will win. So what. When we reach that day who's really gonna care anymore anyway! I just want to do whatever it takes to ensure that we win. At all costs. Permanently.


Okay, you want to talk about 'innocent people'? I'm from the UK, and my country suffrred a good 20 years of mainland car bombings from terrorists. People that you liked to proudly call your 'Irish cousins'. No-one gave a # when we were dragging burning corpses of men women, children and animals out of the streets, shopping precincts, pubs, hotels, etc. The IRA came over to the good ol' US of A and found plenty of people willing to throw pennies into their coffers to keep up the good fight against the old colonialists.

You never gave a # about the carnage we suffered. All because an entity in the north of Ireland wanted to pledge alleigance to the Crown and the south didn't? (Does any of this ring a bell?)
But then one day, after years of your own internal interfering and meddling in the affairs of other countries, you finally get a bloody punch on the nose and expect the rest of the world (who has had to live with this for SO MUCH LONGER than you,) to say "STOP! America is wounded! The world must stop and focus only on her and her pain, in spit of all we've been through! After all, SHE'S DIFFERENT".
You can take your misplaced patriotism and stick it up your world policeman ass for all I care.
You got planes flown into your twin towers by Saudi Arabians (oooohh.....Oil and 'Bush' connection) so who do you hold responsible and invade?
IRAQ!!!!!!!
Hidden agenda much? Dude, even your own government HATES you as a country.
And for THAT fact, I am genuinely sorry. No citizenship should deserve that from it's own representatives.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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SUPPORTERS HECKLE OBAMA:



Dear Mr. President we honor you today sir
Each of us brought you $5,000
It takes a lot of Benjamins to run a campaign
I paid my dues, where's our change?
We'll vote for you in 2012, yes that's true
Look at the Republicans - what else can we do
Even though we don't know if we'll retain our liberties
In what you seem content to call a free society
Yes it's true that Terry Jones is legally free
To burn a people's holy book in shameful effigy
But at another location in this country
Alone in a 6x12 cell sits Bradley
23 hours a day is night
The 5th and 8th Amendments say this kind of thing ain't right
We paid our dues, where's our change?


www.drudgereport.com...

no comment
edit on 053030p://bThursday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


I agree with your basic argument that he should be treated as a criminal because he did break the law. However, the same sense of justice should apply to all ...including current and former politicians, bankers, corporate executives, and all those who profit from the deaths and disfigurement of our (Military) sons and daughters, sisters and brothers, fathers and mothers. A soldier's duty is follow orders and serve his/her country... A citizen's duty is look out for our soldiers welfare....ask the politicians "Why?" Why is it a humanitarian mission today, when yesterday even more people were killed in 10 different nations? Are we trading the lives of our children for natural resources? It is US, the citizens who have to stand up to politicians and make this country what it is supposed to be. It is NOT enough for people to slap an american sticker on their car, sing the national anthem, and drive a Ford and THINK that your "supporting the troops"..... What a Joke!!!! The only way to support the troops is to be their voice to the congress, to fight for their health benefits, ask the tough questions at a town hall meeting, If we don't....who will? Let's wake up people, If we don't participate in the politics of this Republic, then we really can't call ourselves American.



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