WikiLeaks suspect being moved out of Quantico

All the years worth of cables, yet now is when someone "leaked" them. They were obviously meant to be released. Just another event that had to take place in order to move forward with controlling the internet. They already got television..

reply to post by HomerinNC


Hey Homer

So, I can understand the concept of crime = punishment...sure..the guy broke law and therefore will rightfully get punished for his actions,
however...

as a soldier, is it an excuse to do some brutal and evil stuff simply because you were ordered...isn't there a clause where you can refuse, whistleblow, etc...if the commands given go against the ethics and moral conduct befitting a soldier?

Now, with that in mind...lets say this chap released "good" stuff...(if he did it...innocent until proven guilty). Lets say he stole and whistleblowed about some mind bending above top secret documents...aliens working with government to exterminate the population...wormholes...new world order...whatever, let your mind truely go to the fringe

Would your tune change, or is a soldiers job to do as commanded even if it means the extermination of his entire country to protect the secrets of a few corrupt individuals.

Now, the answer is obvious (I assume). So, its just perception of what is considered serious that is at question here that defines if a man is a thief or a hero...if you personally don't deem the information stole to be of significant consequence, then the guy is a thief, however, if you find it to be of consequence, then he is a hero.

See the dilemma...this is not a black and white issue overall and I think any blanket torching (or praising) should be avoided.

reply to post by HomerinNC


If he is a thief, what did he steal?
The governments ability to cover-up shooting children and reporters with an Apache helicopter?

He deserves whistle-blower protection, and should be granted immunity for his actions.

The real traitors are the people that allowed the conglomeration of all federal agencies (in the wake of 9-11) so that a PFC could access the supposed 'leaks'.

Bradley Manning's treatment is inhumane.

Period.

The real traitors are the people that allowed the conglomeration of all federal agencies (in the wake of 9-11) so that a PFC could access the supposed 'leaks'.

Bradley Manning's treatment is inhumane.

Period.

reply to post by voiceoreason


He's being treated like any prisoner in ANY close custody facility prior to trial

reply to post by HomerinNC


Bull#. An obvious joke is treated as an obvious joke.

a joke is treated like a threat of suicide when the jailers want to punish the prisoner.

Trial? Yeah there wont be any trial cause there is no evidence. Either that or he will be tortured some more untill he breaks and that will then be the only evidence.

reply to post by HomerinNC


So what if it is common treatment?

Commonality of the treatment does not make it humane.

reply to post by PsykoOps


Til he breaks?
To my knowledge what he did, and how he did it are not a mystery.

He's being bullied, to set an example to any other would-be info-leaks.
Has nothing to do with what he knows.

Yeah that's what they say in the news over in US. However the only thing against him is Lamo's word and he is a hacker with some shady connection. So it's not like evidence that would be even close to getting a conviction.

Originally posted by voiceoreason
reply to post by HomerinNC

 

Bull#. An obvious joke is treated as an obvious joke.

a joke is treated like a threat of suicide when the jailers want to punish the prisoner.

Actually, thats incorrect.
If you get arrested and while they are processing you, and the nurse is trying to enquire about your mental and physical health, even a joke of sucide or hinting about it...again, even in pure jest, will immediately get you in a turtle suit and under supervision.

So ya, best not to joke about such things in the jail, unless you like truely living like a animal without even clothes to wear

Ack, yet another thread by the "America F@@@ YEAH" crowd.

It's these same people who try to claim, to foreigners, that we are just 'jumping on the bandwagon' and 'putting all Americans in the same basket' when we express our displeasure about the momumentally treacherous, lying, corrupt empire that you hold so proudly up to be the pillar of civilisation.

Never ever will I believe that I am mistaken when I think and say these things - the proof is in this thread.

Originally posted by HomerinNC


Well he is still a criminal NO MATTER what ANYONE says, he released classified material to unauthorized persons. A traitor and a scumbag in my book
One day, some of you will realize that, if you take something thats not yours to take, or not yours to release, you WILL be punished. Its not the fact of what the material was, it was the fact he wasnt AUTHORIZED to release it

www.latimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's a shame to see people like you still exist in this world, but then again... if your kind didn't exist, there'd be no one else to point and laugh at.

reply to post by neo96


"we kill for oil on but the rest of the world reaps the benefits while the us does all the hard work" - How on earth does the rest of the world benefit from increased oil costs as a result of the unrest and war currently ongoing??? Have I missed something here???

"just how many people would be killed in the world when it ground to a screetching halt when it would cost $50,000 for a gallon of gas." - I would guess there would be death, as there is death now, and has always been around any given resource. IF oil runs out, the wars now only help create profit in the short term - they do nothing to ensure oil will continue - again have I missed something here because if Oil ever reached that price, it would be due to a real lack of that resource - if anything it could be argued the fuel used to power the wars has actually exacerbated its demise.

"how many people would die as the result when there is no food no nothing to sustain the worlds population." - Food and Oil are two different assets. However the big difference is, PEOPLE can grow their own food, they can hunt their own meat, and fish for their own fish. Many probably won't, some will die trying, but the facts are, we humans can create food for ourselves or find ways to survive without suckling at the breast of walmart, OIL and FOOD are not related, if we run out of oil, we will have to micro manage/create food, like we did before big business and globalisation... worked before, can work again!

"the crime is to sit back and cower to the whims of madmen." - So who are the madmen here? From what you have said, the only person I would question to be not of sound mind would be you and OP - the world can and would survive without global oil and food - and no doubt both goods worked better or were more affordable before the US Government decided to make a mess of the middle east.

Not having a go at ya bud, but your points really lack credible substance.

Related but slightly off topic, is at what point does a soldier/public servant/policemen cease to be a human being and merely represent, act and behave as part of the machine?

My point being; policemen use the rule of law rather than common sense to diffuse a situation. Yes people at times break the law, a law designed to protect us the power. Take speeding for instance. We all do it, sometimes purely accidently even by a mile or kilometer over the limit - yet we break the law none the less. The police that catch you speeding, HAVE to issue you with a ticket, they cannot rationally think that perhaps you weren't giving your whole attention to the speedometer instead of other road users and hazards.

At what point do these people have to forego the use of their own minds/morals and conscious to satisfy the machine? We are human beings first and foremost, one of our key skills is being able to make decisions, to do something against an order, because we believed it was right.

Give me an army of humans any day over an army of machines. If humans ever decided to liberate their own minds then I am sure the following quote would become a reality:

What if there was a war, but nobody came? There would be no war!

What cracks me up (me being active duty myself)...is to see guys like Homer who was the perfect robot soldier (if in fact he was in the military) belittle guys like Manning for thinking about not only their country's future but quite possibly humanity's. Apparently Homer doesn't understand honor and integrity...a key role in all military branches. Now I don't doubt Homer would jump in front of a bullet for another brother in arms hell I would, but when your superior orders you to jump off a bridge I'd sure hope you would think twice.

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about war, which is what Manning was getting paid to do. The Germans that decided on the "final solution" were pretty much boned when they decided to implement that aforementioned solution. Up unitl they started exterminating they're own citizens, like the colonel is trying to do now in Libya, they we're just at war with the rest of most of Europe. Do you think if they had more time and a slightly larger industrial base, and a little better luck with linking up with Japan and the Middle Eastern countries that the Germans just might have won the whole deal and they would have had a chance to kill as many people as they needed to solidify there hold on most if not all of the world? Do you think they would have quit a lot sooner had they not known what the rest of the world was going to do to them once the allies finally stumbled upon the camps and the avarage soldiers saw for themselves what was going on? Don't you think that the "Holocaust" is the same as losing 600,000 airman bombing German cities, not militray targets, into dust? Why did the Germans keep fighting for so long? Because they knew what was coming. They knew they never had a chance to win, ever. But they also knew there was no turning back. The holocaust was a crime. War is a crime. What's your point? I say the most immoral thing about war is losing one. I do not debate that there is no "crime" that comes with armed conflict. I know what kind of animals human beings can be, and at the same time there are other humans that will and have sacrificed they're own lives so that others can live. I know because my Great, Great, Grandfather was enslaved and tortured just because he was a Native American who fought against the "redcoats". I know my parents never told me about my native heriage because it was something that was considered a "disappointment" because the natives were purported to have "lost the war". What is your point about the holocaust again? Did it happen, yes. Was it a crime, yes. Was it war? No. This is what I'm trying to say. If US troops are gouing to be deployed, to fight, then there is only one acceptable outcome. Victory. And that 99.9 % of the time means destroying your enemies ability to fight. The only SURE way to accomplish that is to kill your enemy, every single one of them, without stopping, without faltering, and do it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Otherwise, DO NOT deploy our troops, and let the folks in other countries kill each other for as long as they want. I don't care. When they decide they want to come over to the US nd start killing us, by whatever means they seem to think are acceptable, THATS when you deploy OUR troops to they're countries and win the war on they're soil. That's war. If our political leadership, and our senior militray staff aren't willing to pick a country that's responsible, declare war on it, go there and exterminate it, then keep our troops at home and out of other peoples problems. It doesn't really matter what flag you fight under, or what demon gods you whoreship, or what kind of freakin psychopath you are, or how crappy you middle school teachers treated you. If your a "good" human being, you'll do your best to get through all thsi with as much sanity and self-respect and honor you can, regardless of the above. If you not a good human being, then it's academic and hell gets unleashed on Earth. Who makes the call on who's who can only be made after the dust has settled and the killing has stopped or there is nobody left to kill. But enough about how much the US Armed Forces are to blame about all the atrocities. All the other countries on this Sh*t H*le planet are all innocent right? I mean all those pillars of human rights and compassion like, oh , i don't know, say Syria, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, France, England, Canada, Cuba. Russia, China, Japan, India, Pakistan. Anyway, my assertion is this. Manning thinks he blew a whistle. BFD., That;'s great, I hope they put his back to wall and shoot him, because he is a traitor & he deserves it. As far as the "information" he released, I can't wait to see the same information for I don't know, let's say, North Korea, China, Syria, Venezuela, Somalia, Sudan, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Cuba. Oh, but I forgot, all those countries are above reproach and are absolute angles that would never say, I don't know, take woman down to a soccer field and put an AK round in the back of they're daughers heads because they brought they're Dad a cold cup of tea. But it's ok because some "Holy Man" said that that would make the guy upstairs happy as a clam. By comparison, Americans are sure barbarians aren't they. But thanks for dragging up the whole "holocaust" thing because for some reason, I think you probabaly rhink it never actually happened. Is that it? Read a book called "delivered from Evil by a man named Leicke. Yu might learn something about the difference between "warfare" and "atrocities". Thanks again for your comments, I remain yours, a murdering, drone that just happens to have been born a US Citizen that loves his country, but is not really keen on the government.l P.S., My daughter just got done serving 10 years in the Air Force. When she started out, she thought she could make a difference. Now she says we should just killl them all and come home. She's studying to become a nurse. She had to dodge sniper fire just to get a decent cheese-burger in a little dump called "Bagram". Her superiors used to persecute her because she wasn't a christian. She attended bible studies and sang in the choir to show her support for her friends that were christian. Her christian friends would attend here pagan rituals to show they're support for her. People aren't monsters because of who or what they worship. People aren't monsters because of the color of they're skin or they're sex. People are monsters because they are raised to be monsters by other people that have an agenda. Ayway, I hope you have fun denegrating the men and woman of the armed forces of the United States of America. You seem to enjoy it so !!

reply to post by Terrorist


No one seems to care when my "innocent" people get killed by someone with a an agenda. No one seems to care that they didin't get weepy and decide they should blow the whistle on they're political, military and spiritual leaders. But then again, that would be because my innocent people were US citizens so, they could not possibly be "innocent" right? . I personallty don't care what you find shocking. I'm an American citizen, so to the citizens of every other country in this world, that automatically makes them believe I'm evil and I'm guilty. So be it. I believe in avenging my "innocent" friends and countryman. I believe that if the folks that are so righteous and believe that killing US citizens is a direct order from some nut job holy dude or whatever that's ok! they're entitled to believe that if they want. I am entitled to kill as many of them as I posissbly can to kee my country and my fellow citizens safe. I'm entitled to believe what I want to. What I'm saying to you is that I know the there is a difference bewtween warfare and crime, but my enemies don't seem to want to play by those same rules. Great. Fine. Eventually, one side ot the other will win. So what. When we reach that day who's really gonna care anymore anyway! I just want to do whatever it takes to ensure that we win. At all costs. Permanently.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Yes. Prior to trial. You are right.
Just one question.
Why are you jumping to the conclusion that this man is a traitor
and a criminal guilty of these crimes when he hasn't been tried yet?
Are you just going off of what the media says?
Just wondering.