Emancipation from the system - Off the Grid

I'll keep this post as short as possible, hypothetically is emancipation from the system and complete self sufficiency still possible in the UK? In the US I'm aware the laws are generally less restrictive, the task is much more cost effective and generally easier to pull off though this thread may still be useful as a hub for information which members may post on techniques etc.

I'm talking, food, water, shelter, electricity, security, fuel (wood etc) and every other little nescessity we humans need to survive and thrive on these shores.
I have recently been researching the environmentalist/green movements where some individuals have taken to 'off the grid' lifestyles.

The main thing a person would require to do this is land, even if one could afford a prime piece of woodland/farmland etc to get started on such a project these places don't come cheap. Also to consider is the second hurdle and the most prohibitive issue one faces when ATTEMPTING such a feat as self sustainable living, planning permission. building homes/developing land without permission is a definite no-no from our government and will likely result in whatever you build being destroyed, however I have seen some green activist/environmentalist homes being built in such a manner that they are virtually un-detectable even from the air

There is of course alot more one has to consider before even planning a possible attempt at a sustainable off the grid lifestyle

www.guardian.co.uk...

This video ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ shows a decent example of one of these pioneer off the grid communities which are beginning to spring up all over the country.

What are your thoughts? is it possible to live totally off the grid? what would it take? what would it cost? most importantly, if you had a solid plan and the know-how, would you do it?

reply to post by lifeissacred


Most rural people are living "off the grid" to a certain extent.

It doesn't mean that you have to become a Luddite living in a throwback society. It's just that you use alternatives to the easy connections that urbanites use.

It isn't expensive when compared to the constant usury which urbanites have to pay.

reply to post by chr0naut


I'm not suggesting becoming a luddite. Environmentaly friendly, self sufficient communities were what I was refering to when I said off the grid.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Yeah, I almost made a really long thread about how it's impossible to be 'off the grid' but I deleted it. I realized that that term could mean different things to different people. To me, being off the grid would mean not having to answer to anyone or pay taxes, or have an adress that could be found on any search engine. I personally think it's impossible in this day and age to do that. However, in some people's interpretation of the phrase it may be slightly possible. If you mean that you can heat your house, generate whatever electricity you might need without hooking up to the power company and grow some food and stuff like that, I think it's hard, but you can do it. The thing is, is it worth it?

reply to post by lifeissacred


good thread i think, should bring some good discussions. i will be following this and comment.
for now i have to go, so hear you in a bit.

btw. i have some friends who started an off grid community in Greece, so this is certainly possible
(but yes everyone has their ideas of what is living off-grid)
cheers

reply to post by wtbengineer


Thanks for the reply.
In my opinion I'd say it's worth it, though it is impossible to get society as a whole to embrace a lifestyle of sustainable living it is worth it even as an attempt at preserving some individuality in an increasingly globalised and commercialised society (by this I mean, increasing reliance on media and consumer culture as the backbone of our society which it essentially is nowdays unfortunately)

What I find amusing is that you're using a definitely "plugged in" system (the internet) to find out about unplugging from the system.

Do you realize how much of a paper trail your posts about this will have left?

If you're going to unplug from the system, then unplug. Don't plug postings about unplugging in public forums.

Kinda defeats the purpose.

As far as unplugging from the system goes, if you have enough money, supplies, and survival skills, anything is possible.

Hardest thing to do without cash or with very little money is to find jobs that pay enough cash in order to keep yourself off the books.

Also hard to do without email, a phone #, a contact info, a company that will have you work for them without some sort of record keeping.

However, if you have enough money, and surivival skills, I'm sure you could find a nice little island somewhere, become self sufficient, and live off the land. Enjoy.

reply to post by babybunnies


The point of this thread was to discuss possible self sustainable off the grid living, nowhere did I mention becoming a recluse who avoids technology and society like the plague. By 'the system' I meant things like mains water and electricity as well as the established means of survival (chainstores etc)
What I was attempting to stir discussion about was a counter culture of independant communities which thrive and are productive whilst maintaining independence from mains electricity, water, gas as well as relience on consumption of their own produce/livestock for food and the possibility of this style of living gaining a foothold (or even being possible) in the UK.

reply to post by babybunnies


You've took the words out of my mouth...or at least, off off my keyboard.

There are areas in certain parts of the UK already doing this incognito, I'm not even going to say the area they are in but they are out there and if you move in certain circles you'll be made known of them too

Ireland is a lot better for living off the grid, however I'm finding it more expensive and difficult to source parts so if you go there, bring a LOT of stuff with you

i thought this topic would bring more discussion but seems like people dont get their interest in this.
Or they say it s impossible or dont believe in it, or they dont care and like working for a company in a corrupt system, depending on their resources and following their ways. This is where fear comes in to me.
Dont want to offend people. but i know how they can be, ignorant naieve,...
where i am one of them also.

I understand well that its difficult to start something like in your videolink, you need money, knowledge, some imagination and balls.
Many depends on what you want, live full off-grid or half-off-grid
Even then their are many ways that each one has their own opinion on.

I am guessing you want to be more independant of the system? Dont have to work for your food, paying electric bills an such?

either way you should know about survival, doing some research, joining people who are familiar with survival techniques. Knowledge of how nature works, seasons, soils, growing your own food.
It will come in handy if you are somewhat a 'handyman' familiar with constructing.
Knowing about alternate sources of energy, in a green way(water, solar,wind are the most commen)

Of course many depend on where you want to go. I mean if you want to go up north, it will be difficult to grow bananas or you want to go in the desert, you got a problem of water and in many other ways also and i am not talking about food only.
But yes water is important and not thet easy to get it for free.

Buying a land, house will require money, how much depends on where.
You should always try to get some 'income, gaining' (dont know if thats the right word) you will still have to pay taxes and ownership and all that crap

I live in an area where their are lots of mountain villages, rural people. 20houses in one village max.
You can say they live somewhat off grid by growing own food, keeping animals, earning some cash by selling their products. Now you see they begin to put green energy(many have already).They dont go out their area for long periods.
But they still have contact to the 'other world'.

There is also a way of paying nothing and live isolated yes. Living like a caveman.
But then you will be 'illegal' i guess and they will haunt you

Anyways IMO there is much to talk about this...

cheers

reply to post by lifeissacred


The biggest obstacle in the US is the government.

You can go off-grid to a point and then the gov steps in with regulations and restrictions and licensing and permits that block just about everything you'd want to do preventing you from ever going truly off-grid.

If you have the money to comply with the government then you can make it work sort of half-assed pseudo-off-grid.

But who looking to go off-grid is rich besides guilt-ridden yuppies?

I live in the UK and I'm planning to go "semi" off grid for a couple of months this summer. Planning to cycle round the UK with just the bare necessities to see how I get on, maybe try to find some areas that are secluded but could possibly be good place to get away from everything. I am kind of preparing for the uncertainties that lie ahead in the next couple of years. i.e. predicted food shortages, potential electricity blackout etc. Hoping to write a post about it before I leave, but I've only just joined ATS so need to post some more first.

I have a theory: if you have little money and at least 1 acre with good sun, soil and a family of 5, off-grid living can be obtained with hard work and patience.

I look at it as something that happens in phases.

I am currently working on the food phase. This will take me 3 years to establish. I have 1600 square feet for my vegetables and I have started a flock of chickens.

Over then next 2 years I will be adding a goat for milk and a new garden for sustainable feed for my animals over the winter. I will also require a small greenhouse and some cold frames.

The next phase will be heating. I will transport adequate quantities of wood from my local yard waste depot. In an "end of the world" situation, the wood would be easily cut from surrounding forests. I will supplement this with hot water heat from large compost piles staggered in their creation dates as to produce near constant hot water. This should take me 1 or 2 years to establish.

The third phase will be transport. Admittedly, I am not quite sure what to do: I will either try to extract methane from my compost piles as fuel, or I will find a horse. This will probably add another year to my plan.

The fourth phase will be electricity. Whatever little electricity I use will be produced with a home-made wind turbine that stores energy kinetically, rather than in a limited life battery array. This is yet another year added to my plan.

Therefore in 8 years, my family and I should be completely self-sufficient.

A quick add-on:

Ignore all the stupid municipal "rules". Just build, dig and farm animals. Just make sure your neighbours are fine with it. I challenge the bastards to try to take away my right to make a living.

reply to post by intergalactic fire


I agree. There is much to discuss!

reply to post by flushy


I agree, it is something you do in phases.
Like some say, if you want to unplug just do it.Many things are easier said than done. People are scared for changes to give up there 'normal' way of living(and many other ways).
I agree to some point if you want to unplug just do it, but why not let people use these plugged-in-technologies to become aware of what they may face? In these times where you have the advantage of easily share experiences, from making a fire wihout a lighter to growing food and building own energy supplies and shelters.
If you drop a 'city people' in the middle of the jungle,without soem kind of prep, he will not last for a week.
This all said

I think you have a good plan that will work, with patience, the right preperations and will.
Beginning with a 'food phase' is a must IMO, this can take years to establish(min 2 years) to get good recourses.
Knowing what to plant in wich season, climate, furtilisation,...
For some this will be easy done as they are more familiar to the subject, as in every other subject.
If you have good preperations, vegetables and fruits will grow quite well. As i grow potatoes, tomatoes, paprika, peppers,onions,garlic,lettuce,beans, peas, types of berries,strawbery,herbs,...
you will have fast results with these types if planted in the right season and way.

Animals, such as sheep, goat, horse,chicken are a good way to get milk, cheese,butter eggs, meat.Also important,fertilizer.
Sheep can offer you clothes as well
Of course they require to be fed.

For heating their are cheap ways. The 'old wood stoves' (we have them here in many houses,) can be plugged in on a 'water heating system' around the house or just use them as a normal stove. they contain an oven and cooking plates. They only require wood. Many here use this as only source of 'heating and kitchen'.
You can also use tubes to put on a roof or somewhere else that are heated by the sun to get somewhat warm water.

If you can build a windmill, watermill, this can be a source of electricity, yes. They can power a generator, or batteries.

As for your neigbours, i am sure they will come knocking and aks if you can spare some fresh potatoes

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

If you have the money to comply with the government then you can make it work sort of .

half-assed pseudo-off-grid, nice word, should be added to the world wide dictionary

Originally posted by corporaldoom
I live in the UK and I'm planning to go "semi" off grid for a couple of months this summer. Planning to cycle round the UK with just the bare necessities to see how I get on, maybe try to find some areas that are secluded but could possibly be good place to get away from everything. I am kind of preparing for the uncertainties that lie ahead in the next couple of years. i.e. predicted food shortages, potential electricity blackout etc. Hoping to write a post about it before I leave, but I've only just joined ATS so need to post some more first.

Love to read your experiences when they occur, always welcome to share