Why don't you Believe in God?

You say you came here to help us, but its we who are trying to help you. Please read on.

How can an atheist explain what they believe if you're going to be offended by everything that is said. You asked a question now listen to the answer, and if you listen well you may learn.

Our hearts are not hard, I can personally say Im one of the most compassionate people I know, but this compassion comes from human understanding and reason. I don't need something outside of myself to explain why I feel certain emotions, or do this instead of that. I'm free from fear, which is really the core of faith. And with fear goes anxiety, at least for me. Science helps me understand natural disasters and the cosmos. And to me the universe is a wonderful chaos, beautifully blooming before our eyes. That is certainly a graspable concept that I can be at peace with.

My "soul" is not unhappy, I think its your soul that is unhappy. You feel the need to reach out and convert. You need to be around others who feel the same. Youre need for faith must be constantly reinforced, or else you don't feel right with yourself. Why cant you just simply be at peace? Im really not trying to be a jerk! Sorry if comes off as such.

Sorry for any typos. Typing on a really tiny keyboard.

reply to post by TiberianPurifier


You question God but you do not question physics, The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. but where id all the energy come from. God is light, and light is energy.

And to that other girl that says religion is not about love. You are very wrong. Lets say you have a child, its now about 2 and is always against you no matter how hard you try to teach it. Punishment is a form of learning called operant conditioning, reward for good behavior punishment for bad behavior. Humans see pain as a bad thing but it is a form of strengthening. Jesus Christ was all about love, and he was God's Word. If you read his teaching you will understand. Its all about psychology.

I ponder why persons seemingly are compelled to profess a belief in something greater than themselves?
What is it about the human psyche that is driven to avoid personal responsibility for the here-and-now in pursuit of some unattainable state of bliss in an "afterlife"?
What drives people to seek a guiding hand in events that deeply affect their lives, and somehow draw comfort from the delusion that their existence is as a pawn controlled by far greater forces?

For myself, I don't need to invest in the delusion.
I am responsible for my acts and whatever effects those have.
Choose your delusions carefully, remember you have a choice and you can change your mind at any time.
Investigating and developing ideas, considering them with an active mind, learning both concept and content and (hopefully) different manners of thinking that challenge us to strengthen the process of thinking - these are useful activities for our magnificent brains.
When we take an idea and decide that it is "Truth" we manufacture a "Belief" from that idea.
If we nuture that "Belief" and invest ourselves with its importance, we begin to exhibit the phenomena some call "Faith". It's just another delusion that I choose not to indulge.

ganjoa

reply to post by Q2IN2Y


Very well said. I think anyone can accept that. Just be glad that you're here.

Star for you, sir.

reply to post by mikesk8s247

Punishment is a form of learning called operant conditioning, reward for good behavior punishment for bad behavior

Yes, but is there anything that your child could do that would make you lock it in your basement and torture it for as long as it lives? Because that is what Christianity is all about

God - an excuse for the weak: Because they can't comprehend the complexity and the simplicities of a universe around them, a universe where we have space, freedom to do what we want, this proves to much control, too much responsibility... this frightens children. Get over it, deal with it, move on. FFS.

Jamie

Originally posted by mikesk8s247
reply to post by TiberianPurifier

 

You question God but you do not question physics, The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. but where id all the energy come from. God is light, and light is energy.

And to that other girl that says religion is not about love. You are very wrong. Lets say you have a child, its now about 2 and is always against you no matter how hard you try to teach it. Punishment is a form of learning called operant conditioning, reward for good behavior punishment for bad behavior. Humans see pain as a bad thing but it is a form of strengthening. Jesus Christ was all about love, and he was God's Word. If you read his teaching you will understand. Its all about psychology.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

Religion justifies hatred, Racism, Sexism, everything that is Inhuman. Seriously... can you honestly call yourself A Human Being, if you let yourself be seduced by something you fight, temptation, fear, hatred... you have practically put a gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger!

Jamie.

Originally posted by ganjoa
I ponder why persons seemingly are compelled to profess a belief in something greater than themselves?
What is it about the human psyche that is driven to avoid personal responsibility for the here-and-now in pursuit of some unattainable state of bliss in an "afterlife"?
What drives people to seek a guiding hand in events that deeply affect their lives, and somehow draw comfort from the delusion that their existence is as a pawn controlled by far greater forces?

This is just my opinion: people do this because they cant cope with the idea that they are just a germ living on a ball of dirt flying through space and time, to put it bluntly. Its "soul" crushing to be so insignificant and small. They have to be apart of something bigger and greater than themselves, some divine plan. Something, ANYTHING to justify them being here other than mere chance.

But the real good news is that they really ARE apart of something bigger than they are, its called the human race! And if we just all had the same goals we could really become a civilization. Again, just my personal opinion.

Originally posted by ProjectBlue

Originally posted by ganjoa
I ponder why persons seemingly are compelled to profess a belief in something greater than themselves?
What is it about the human psyche that is driven to avoid personal responsibility for the here-and-now in pursuit of some unattainable state of bliss in an "afterlife"?
What drives people to seek a guiding hand in events that deeply affect their lives, and somehow draw comfort from the delusion that their existence is as a pawn controlled by far greater forces?

This is just my opinion: people do this because they cant cope with the idea that they are just a germ living on a ball of dirt flying through space and time, to put it bluntly. Its "soul" crushing to be so insignificant and small. They have to be apart of something bigger and greater than themselves, some divine plan. Something, ANYTHING to justify them being here other than mere chance.

But the real good news is that the really ARE apart of something bigger than they are, its called the human race! And if we just all had the same goals we could really become a civilization. Again, just my personal opinion.

Can I have your babies? :'D I felt such emotion when I read that!

Jamie

reply to post by ganjoa

I ponder why persons seemingly are compelled to profess a belief in something greater than themselves? What is it about the human psyche that is driven to avoid personal responsibility for the here-and-now in pursuit of some unattainable state of bliss in an "afterlife"? What drives people to seek a guiding hand in events that deeply affect their lives, and somehow draw comfort from the delusion that their existence is as a pawn controlled by far greater forces?

Personally, I think this is long term conditioning. Religion as a whole has always been handed down to us from the elitists of society. They seem to have a need to be thought of as above us. As gods and shepherds. So they have always conditioned the masses to look outside themselves for the answers to lifes problems and injustices, rather than inside. Independence is a personal power they don't like, because it is very freeing to the individual.

exactly, religion exists because people are scared about how vast space and universe is ......
life isn't just about ''you're a good person you go to heaven'' and ''you're a bad person you go to hell''

Question laws of physics?? what does that mean ?? science isn't a belief .... when galileo galilei said that earth moves around the sun he wasn't starting a new religion ..... even he was taught that the earth was the center of the universe but what he observed said otherwise ....... he didnt intentionally say that earth moves around the sun , he said it because it was true....

it was said that newtonian laws are universal be recently it has been observed that newtonian laws dont work in space or outside a gravitational field ..... does that mean that what science has been saying is a lie ??? no it means that there is still much to learn ........
oh since newtonian laws dont work in space , einstein proposed the laws of specific relativity that are like a modification of newtonian laws

TiberainPurifier

Originally posted by mikesk8s247
Is it because of your fear of punishment for sinful things?

Is it the idea that religion is full of hatred and violence?

Or maybe something bad happened in your life and you wonder, how, if existing, can God let this happen?

Nope. None of those.

Why don't you believe in God?

To me, that's like asking why I don't believe dogs can fly. Because I have no reason to. There is no evidence that I've seen that such a being exists (or that dogs can fly). And the existence of such a being would require extraordinary evidence, since it's such an extraordinary claim - just like flying dogs. Logically, rationally, it just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Alpal
No hard proof, No god. simple

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by mikesk8s247
Is it because of your fear of punishment for sinful things?

Is it the idea that religion is full of hatred and violence?

Or maybe something bad happened in your life and you wonder, how, if existing, can God let this happen?

What people need these days, is God. Your atheism and insubordination is saddening to your Creator and fellow people. The God that I know punishes, but he forgives, and he makes that clear. My God doe's not use violence, the people of the world do. My God gives me the power of understanding, why bad things happen, and understand that pain is a form of strengthening, not physically but psychologically. This is not just my God, but it is God, whether you believe or not, he is still the one God above everything. God sent his Messiah to make things easier to understand, but it seems as if it made more people hate. In a thicket of thorns, there is a rose.

So I want to know,

Why don't you believe in God?

None of those people who just say God isn't real without explaining

edit on 19-4-2011 by mikesk8s247 because: (no reason given)

All i get from this is god sucks at making messiahs.

And someone really should have shot the messenger

I am still going through the list of Gods attempting to determine which ones are real. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me how did you guys do it so fast? I could use the advice on making this screening process go faster.

Aesir, Agasaya, Agdistis, Ah chuy kak, Ah cun can, Ah hulned, AH puch, Ahulane, Ahura mazda, Aine, Airmid, Aizen-myoo, Aji-suki-taka-hi-kone, Akea, Alberich, Ama-no-minaka-nushi, Ama-tsu-mara, Amaethon, Amaterasu, Amatsu, Amatsu-kami, Ame-no-mi-kumari, Ame-no-wakahiko, Amidaam-no-tanabata-hime, An, Anahita, Anat, Anath, Andhrimnir, Andraste, Andvari, Angrboda, Angus og, Ankt, Annapurna, Anouke, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite (I like her), Apollo, Apsu, Apukohai, Arawn, Aray, Ares, Arianrhod, Artemis, Artio, Adclepius, Asherah, Ashur, Astarte, Astrild, Athena, Athirat, Atla, Atlas, Audhumla.

And these are just the A's.

Maybe one of you religious chaps could help me out here and tell me which god/god's we are talking about so I can get on the same page?

If yall are referring to Yahweh then I am afraid I have a LONGGGG way to go before I get to the Y's.

I) The universe could not have been a "product of chance".

Logically, there is an equal probability of the universe existing vis a vis its not existing (It is as someone may say 50/50). Existence will not give itself preponderance over non-existence except by being designated with it, by other than itself, i.e., it is dependent upon being designated with existence.

II) The universe is not self-created.

A thing cannot create itself. Whatever is non-existent is incapable of doing anything, much less allegedly "create itself". The action itself is dependent upon the existence of that thing in the first place. Furthermore, to claim, for instance, that the universe created itself, entails two contradictions simultaneously. It would be like claiming that the universe existed before and after itself to create itself. This also breaks the Law of Non-Contradiction, which is "the basic law of logic which states that it is not possible for something to be and not be at the same time".

III) The universe is not beginning-less..What if someone told you "I will give you this dollar after an infinite amount of time". Will you ever receive this dollar? No. Likewise, if an infinite amount of time preceded the present, will it ever be traversed? No. The claim entails that an infinite amount of time can be traversable - which is impossible. In other words, an explanation:

Premise A: We exist here today.

Premise B: Before we existed there were a series of events, one after another leading up to our existence today. (The passing of such a series of events is what we call time, and measure in minutes, days, weeks and years.)

If one accepts Premise A, then one must also accept that the series of events in premise B must have a beginning. This must be, because if someone claims that an eternal amount of events had to be concluded before his existence, then he is saying that eternity came to an end, which is a contradiction in terms. It is like if someone said “this car will only get to its destination after its wheels have spun infinitely many times,” and then claimed that the car arrived at its destination. It is clear, however, that the car could never have gotten to its destination if an infinite number of spins was the condition for its arrival.

Those who claim that the world has no beginning are in fact saying that it is a prerequisite for tomorrow to arrive that an infinite number of events first take place. This is impossible, because infinity cannot end. Clearly then, the number of events that precedes our existence must have a limit.

In addition, since it is necessarily true that this series of events has a beginning, then it must also be that before this beginning there were no series of events (defined as anything with a beginning). If someone claimed otherwise, then they would end up with the same contradiction (saying that infinity came to an end). Accordingly, the claim that the world was created by random events is irrational.

Rather, there must be a Creator that gave the series of events existence, since it was nonexistent before it began. Moreover, since it is impossible for there to be any events before the existence of this series, then it must also be that the Creator is not attributed with events, i.e. with any attribute or action that has a beginning. This again means that the Creator does not resemble His creation, since all created attributes must have a beginning. Actually, having a beginning and being a creation is the same thing. This is because to create is to bring into existence, and everything with a beginning must have been brought into existence.

We know from the above, by mathematical precision and logical necessity, that the Creator exists and does not resemble His creation. From the fact that the world has a beginning, we have proven that it must have a creator. The name of this creator is Allah in Arabic. If someone asks, “Who created Allah?” we say Allah does not have a creator, and does not need one as Allah has no beginning. If someone then asks, “how can you accept that Allah has no beginning, while you do not accept that the world has no beginning?” The answer is that we have shown that the world has a beginning based on the fact that it changes (changes are events). We do not believe, however, that Allah changes. Rather, we believe The Creator is One, and doesn’t change/materialize and has no beginning.

The fact that Allah does not resemble the creations can also be known by saying that since The Creator's existence must be (as shown above), then it cannot also be merely possible (since “must be” and “possible” are incompatible meanings – something cannot be both a must and a possibility at the same time). Therefore, The Creator must be clear of any attribute that belongs to the possible category of things. For example, weakness, limits, boundaries and needs are attributes that may or may not have existence; their existence depends on them being created; their existence is a possibility, not a must. They need a Creator to specify their limits. We know that we need a Creator, because we know that our own attributes need specification. We know they need specification because they have limits, and limits must be specified. For example, if you pointed at a table in a room and said, “Who made it in that shape?” and someone answered, “No one, it is just there like that eternally!” Would you accept this? Of course not, because we know anything limited needs someone to specify it.

If someone asked: If an event can be defined as an action that has a beginning and giving a series of events existence is an action with a beginning (and if it’s not, then what is it?), then how can one rationally conclude, based on the logic presented above, that the Creator is not attributed with events?

The answer to this is that we did not define events as actions having a beginning, but as “anything that has a beginning.” Actions may have a beginning, namely the actions of creation – as they all share this resemblance, or they may not, namely the actions of Allah.

Allah does not resemble the creations, so is not an event or attributed with events. This is because to “create” is to “bring into existence,” and all events are therefore by definition created. As Allah’s attributes are not creations, they are not events.

Last but not least, in attempt to confuse, or out of confusion some may ask:

“What if the world’s existence is cyclical?” Our answer to this is that cycles are still one cycle one after another, so they are events. Some may also ask, in an attempt to confuse: “Before Allah created this series of events, was He able to create another series or not?” Our answer to this is that this is a nonsensical question, because what we established was that there must be an event that is first, regardless of the number of series, or the number of worlds preceding the current one. We also established that Allah’s actions are not events, so they are not described with a “before.”

^this was taken from: Sunnianswers

And just a note...

IV) Due to empiricism not applying to it, it does not necessitate that the thing's existence must be nixed.

Just because something isn't empirical doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I have never seen another person's mind; yet I hesitate not in believing that the people I deal with have minds/intellect. I see that in their speech and behavior--that is, I see the signs of their intelligence, and likewise, when I see the creation, I see the signs for The Creator's Existence.

Nowadays, scientists are able to discover many things because of technological advances. One hundred years ago, some empiricists would say since amoebas aren't observable, they don't exist. To the contrary, in the present day, one can use a microscope and see that it surely exists - such an application of empiricism is flawed.

Denying the existence of God off the (false) premise that one can't see or purportedly "find" God is an indication of one being narrow-minded and unable to use one's mind.

Here is somwthing a lot of people ask me,"Do you believe in the devil?"

Originally posted by enderthexenocide
Here is somwthing a lot of people ask me,"Do you believe in the devil?"

I think more people believe in the devil than they do god. Course thats just from the views and things i hear from others. Its always about not wanting to go to hell.

reply to post by mikesk8s247


i dont NEED a god - why do you ?

All things being equal, what evidence is there that there is a God? Ok, so if not any hard evidence, what supports any kind of theory of why there would be a God?

I'll wait for the answer.