Anyone need a good Job??

reply to post by semperfortis


I tried to apply to mcdonalds, turned me down as overqualified

Originally posted by TheLastStand
reply to post by tallcool1

 

Some of us remember when working in a burger joint used to be enough to get a house and have a family; but these jobs are for kids that don't pay rent that is how they are priced versus CPI. This is absolutely, positively slave labour, and when viewing how economic conditions induces people to become slaves it is clear that if you can't even make it past the clothing yourself step in life without hitting up a food bank, collecting welfare or ei, and without hitting a thrift store --> then that job is enslaving, plain and simple, any way you slice it. SLAVERY. Start thinking of these employers as what they really are, "slave drivers". I don't care how free of a market it is, they are paying people to work as slaves and dragging the quality of life below that which was when we were living out of caves (at least people had a chance to be free back then). Mcdonalds is scum, they need to cease to exist, this society is sick and disgusting and so is their food.

I choose not to look at it that pompously. I was not able to go to college - so instead of sitting on my parents couch getting high and mooching off of them while I complained about things not being handed to me, I got a job at Taco Bell as well as several other menial "slave" jobs (as you put it). Each of those menial little jobs was a rung on the ladder of experience that led to the next job - eventually leading me to my current job. Employers look at your past history not only for experience but also to show that you actually have a work history. I don't understand why there is this ego-inflated demand that we eliminate the lower rungs on the ladder to success. What is sick and disgusting is people who demand to be handed high paying jobs without having to climb the ladder of experience first. Most of you could benefit from having to serve people to help get over yourselves.

Originally posted by yeahright

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by TheLastStand
dude there is a difference between willing and having no other choice.

What is the difference?

There are always choices.

And that's the point of this thread, in my opinion. No one HAS to work at McDonald's. The other choices may include any number of things that are less attractive, if not less viable.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Such as? I don't see how you can go lower the minimum wage working in an oily environment,
unless you propose working in chain-gangs or migrating to China and working in sweatshop factories.
Sure, there are less attractive jobs out there, like cleaning sewage, but the pay is far better.
Although, try to get that job, I'm sure 20 guys are lined up for that job due to the wage.

People choose to work there because the other options are for them, worse. Others would rather commit self-mutilation than work there, if what is posted here is to be believed. I'm wagering the ones who feel the strongest about it probably have either no responsibility at all, or none to anyone but themselves. Or they're entitled in some form or fashion to live off the rest of us.

The wages are insufficient to live off of, some people feel it more profitable, health wise,
to stay away from these jobs and rely on government assistance instead.
The alternative is crime, do you like that outcome?

My point is that there's no shame, and nothing non-macho, about taking an honest job and working it to the best of your ability, no matter what it is. And shame on anyone who wants to look down on anyone else who's busting their butt to do what they need to do in this economy, even if it's standing behind a counter in a goofy hat and serving burgers.

I agree, I work and go to university, I'm still heartbroken to see old people working these exploitative jobs, same as I do, and earning close to nothing, because all the higher paying jobs are very hard to come by. When finding a minimum wage job is hard, then you know that revolution is around the corner. The poor won't stand by idly when they can't afford food and a roof over their heads. If this were Europe we'd have riots everyday.

reply to post by semperfortis


in order for many to be able to hold a job, they have to make enough to live on!!! after all, ain't gonna do mc donalds much good if the new employee drops dead from hunger will it? (maybe this is why they give them a free meal??)
ya, let's all take $9 or less jobs!!! with crappy hours and very little possibilities of advancement!! ya, we can all go on welfare and let the rich make up the difference!!!

Personally, I'd rather live in a grass hut up in one of the national forests around here and live on the wild vegetation that is there!!!

if the employers want living, breathing people working for them, they should at least pay enough to keep them living and breathing instead of thinking that us taxpayers are gonna foot the bill for them while they send their danged money to offshore accounts and beg for more tax credits and such!!!

I don't think anyone is suggesting that if a person is a failure that has to work at McDonalds to make ends meat, far from it. I feel that everyone is sad that the economy is coming to the point that this is all is left for us.

Crap jobs due to outsourcing of labour.


Unending greed from politicians and big business - this is what I am sick of.

Here is a good idea for everyone complaining of crappy jobs and poor working conditions, just work hard to get a useful bachelors degree and then you will find a decent paying job. In today's world, you really need to go to college in order to have a satisfying career.

reply to post by Steam


yes, because we all know that there are plenty of those good paying "career jobs" out there, enough for all of us!!!

besides, I was reading one story where there was a person with a degree applying, so, well, sorry, your degree isn't any guarentee either!!!

I'm not trying to insult anyone, and I am NOT comparing anyone to anyone else, but there is obviously a distinction of honorability/dishonorability between an emergency crew worker and a WWII gas chamber mechanic, right? I'm not calling McDonald's Hitler or their employees Nazis, so please let's not go that route, I'm just saying, there's a distinction. I do not think it is inherently DIShonorable to draw the line for working for an employer based on moral/moral-ish reasons. The same way most would agree if they found their plumbing or landscaping boss to be swindling customers or overcharging or something extraneously sleazy, taking advantage of others, the same is said for someone choosing not to work for a burger joint or a Walmart. I think, if you eat at a fast food restaurant, even if not regularly, you shouldn't turn a nose to the thought of working at one. Doesn't mean you should aim right for it, I'm just saying, someone has to do the job you expect others to do. I do think people that do what they can are commendable. I also think someone choosing not to work for someone they are morally oriented to in a contradictory way is also commendable when it involves having to sacrifice quid pro quo. In chess, sacrifices are not very light things, ever, but unfortunately, the most important pieces are usually sacrificed the most (pawn.) That's part of the game, though. In ways we are all pawns and in ways we are all royalty but there's always a sacrifice on the board we are invested in somewhere. It's what causes the friction of perception to make itself more than a void. This is no goldly-tingling Heaven, or hum of nothingness, or absolutely cruel and intolerable Hell, from my view, and from others, it seems, on the large part. I don't think trying to wade through others' moral inventories and lifestyle choices/roles in society with implements of insults and ruffled feathers is a constructive route, though, if we're looking for truth, and that's usually what people do when they offer different views, look for truth, right?

I mean I'm sure no one in this thread would object if a fast food chain rose up out of nowhere that actually served healthy food, paid well, treated employees with a commendably equal amount of dignified respect, and McDonald's sank into the ground. No one would say "oh god what is the world coming to, someone did something good with money for a change"

Why don't they have nonprofit restaurants where it works like normal, you have staff getting paid and/or volunteering (that part would be different obviously), management, and even board members, various other staffing operating costs, but all the megalomoolah considered to be the larger profit margin portion of the standard for profit food service model went instead to feed the homeless? What? Is that so stupid? People make nonprofit companies that sell art books, with proceeds going to charity. And people sell art books for themselves. Why not an actual nonprofit and BIG fast food chain? I'd be honored to work at one

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by Steam

 

yes, because we all know that there are plenty of those good paying "career jobs" out there, enough for all of us!!!

besides, I was reading one story where there was a person with a degree applying, so, well, sorry, your degree isn't any guarentee either!!!

Well, like I said earlier, the key here is to major in something useful such as an engineering or a science degree. A liberal arts degree won't get you a job and these are the people that you are hearing about.

Anyways having a college degree still pays off. Look at the unemployment rate and income difference between those who have college degrees versus those who don't.

reply to post by Steam


or computer science??? that was the big thing when I was going to college, my programming teacher would sit in class and read off the help wanted ads, and the salaries that went with them, telling us just how great our future would be!!
so how's that working out for all you programmers out there???

but well, the point I am making is that society needs all these cashiers, they want their waitresses, they want their printers, along with all the neat signs, shirts, banners, and crap they they produce....they want the machinists, they want to know when they get on a plane that a capable diecutter cut the gaskets that are in that airplanes engines!!!

just, no one wants to pay them all enough to sustain them!!!

that is just all out wrong!!!

Ha, funny story on that, I've been making do how I can (not by programming) but have been programming on the side pro bono for cause websites if that says anything. You can find programming work if you don't mind doing it free! Don't believe me, go visit elance or rentacoder XD uh oh outsourcing, whole new can of worms

HA.

I rather work at Wal-Mart.

Thanks.

at least the people working for mc donalds aren't worrying about their job getting shipped off to china!!!

it's alot easier to ship the jobs in those "careers"....knowledge and engineering designs and such, well, that can by easily electronically transferred, no one wants to sit around and wait that long for a hamburg..

Originally posted by Radekus
I can't believe that there's people here defending MCDonlad's as being a decent job!
A job, in my view, pays rent, food, necessities, and you got a little bit left over
for entertainment (like cable TV). A Career is supposed to offer you the ability to live life
the way it is supposed to be lived, great salary, vacations, camping during weekends,
hanging out with friends, making every available time that you have worthwhile and fun.
Owning a house, supporting a family, and playing golf from time to time, that is a Career.
Now, the beef I have with McDonald's type jobs is that the salary is garbage.
you CANNOT pay rent with it, you CANNOT afford food with it, you CANNOT afford
necessities such as clothing, soap, shampoo, shaving razorblades or deodorant.
Forget owning a car, even if it's a pile of garbage, the only people who work McDees
are kids that go to school that live at their parent's place. Not paying rent enables
them to afford clothes, food and necessities, because rent is out of the equation,
if they don't pay rent that is...
eh, remember, in order to "work up the ladder" at places like mcdees you gotta look presentable,
smell good, know the right people, and of course sell your soul.
Hard to do when you can't even afford rent with the wage (and hours) they give you.
You're better off going to jail than working at McDonald's. At least in jail you're not eating
microwaved noodles and cheese, you're eating chicken and rice.

What we need is more manufacturing jobs, high school education should also be
more concentrated towards trades and specialties, so people can choose not to
deal with this kind of slavery.

You are just wrong.

Obviously the introductory position at mcdonalds won't buy you a house and a car and all the goods you want. But what introductory job does? teach yourself a trade? im sorry but that starts at minimum wage too and takes 5 years to reach 25+ an hour, even in the best trades.


You are bashing the guys flipping burgers as though thats where they will be 20 years from now but its a foolish assumption.

Hate the company all you want, but a lot of people who work there make 30-60k a year, every single store has more than 1 employee making 50k or more a year. Thats pretty good.

And for people who need to get introduced to the workforce, or re-introduced to the workforce, they have readily available introductory positions.

So many of you are so stuck up, you would rather die than work a job you may not like. I have nothing nice to say about someone like that.

reply to post by donkeystyle

hate to say this, but you sound a little stuck up yourself....
outside of the fact that at least a few of the ones who are talking to would be better off forgetting about taking a job a mc donalds and stiking out on their own, doing whatever they like to do...for a profit, or even just for bartering....
well, I can think of a few good reasons why someone would think it's wiser not to take a particular job...maybe they have allergies to something they know they will be expected to come into contact...maybe they now that it's just not their cup of tea....
I know it's not my cup of tea, been there, tried that, I went to college and got a degree to get out of it...ain't never going back to it!!
I'm a screenprinter, been doing it for over 7 years....
I like the work, the company politics can get to ya after awhile though...
and well, twice I found out that the newest man on the crew was making quite a bit more than I was....
my pay is crap.. always has been, always will be...
I don't care what anyone thinks about screenprinters, or burger flippers, or cashiers, or waitresses, or whatever.
if a person is working 40 or more hours a week, doing a service that society wants or needs, that can't be done by a minor, who, by the way, is expected to spend much of the day in a classroom, well, the companies that employ them should be expected to pay them enough to at least provide them with the basic necessities of life independently. our kids are graduating from high school, not able to find jobs that will meet those needs, and well, they seem to be playing musical chairs with the girls, shacking up with this one or that, and when the girls become pregnant, well, time to switch around or something....the girls are on welfare, the boys are working, they are making it through, but they are far from independent!!

Originally posted by donkeystyle
You are just wrong.

Obviously the introductory position at mcdonalds won't buy you a house and a car and all the goods you want.

I never called McDonald's a career, it even fails at being called a job, the wage fails at paying RENT, you know, a cubicle apartment, the wage fails to provide basic food (unless you eat McDonald's everyday) and the wage fails at providing you with clothing.

But what introductory job does? teach yourself a trade? im sorry but that starts at minimum wage too and takes 5 years to reach 25+ an hour, even in the best trades.

I don't know what planet you come from but from where I'm from anyone starting a certified trade starts out 5$ above minimum wage.

You are bashing the guys flipping burgers as though thats where they will be 20 years from now but its a foolish assumption.

I'm not bashing anyone, and that is where they'll be 20 years from now. I've seen people working crappy wages for decades only to stay in the same positions. I actually talk with people and ask them questions in person, every job I get I ask around to figure out what the company is about, not what it spews out as propaganda.

Hate the company all you want, but a lot of people who work there make 30-60k a year, every single store has more than 1 employee making 50k or more a year. That's pretty good.

A lot of people? You mean management right? Don't compare the minority to the majority.
Fact is most people working there make minimum wage, and THAT's a fact.
Maybe you'll get lucky and make a buck or two extra if you get promoted to supervisor,
IF you get promoted to supervisor.

And for people who need to get introduced to the workforce, or re-introduced to the workforce, they have readily available introductory positions.

Such as a shortage of jobs and and abundance of empty promises.
Again, I'm not mentioning anything about a career here...

So many of you are so stuck up, you would rather die than work a job you may not like. I have nothing nice to say about someone like that.

Have YOU worked these so called jobs? Cause I have, In fact I still do.
I have nothing nice to say. I tried to work my way up, there's a reason why I'm in University now,
there is no going up the ladder, no matter how nice you dress and how hard you work.
Good deeds and hard work have never gone unpunished, I've always given my maximum,
half the employers I was with never actually bothered to appreciate the fact that I was
always on time, always coming in when called to bail the company out cause
the people they hired were lazy and didn't feel like showing up for work. I was always polite, I always followed the rules to the letter, guess my only flaw is that I was too honest with my opinions when asked what I thought. Some went as far as to criticize me because they tried to squeeze out even more work out of me.
Some managers do that when they realize that their employees are hard working perfectionists.
The other half who did appreciate me never gave me any realistic raises or promotions, even after I applied numerous times, so don't give me this corporate propaganda. I speak from experience, not imagination.
Go, ask the older people who work these jobs, the ones serving you food, or coffee, or serving you at a cash in your grocery store, ask them how long they've been with the company, the answers might shock you.

reply to post by dawnstar


Seems like the only people with sensible responses are the ones with real life experience
in the field of question. I congratulate you for sharing your experiences with me.

Finding out new hires are making more than you, yea, I've been there.
Kicker is when your CV is filled with more job experience than them
and you realize that the only reason they're getting ahead and not you
is because of either race or nepotism.

About people working the same nonpromoted position for decades..

The corporate ladder isn't an upside down triangle. It isn't even a ladder that has the same width all the way up. Not everyone can be promoted. Let's say McDonald's in Bumtown has 20 employees. One General Manager making this claim someone's posted of 50k a year. Two assistant managers making probably, what, 25k a year apiece? A few shift leaders making a few bucks more an hour than minimum wage, and 14 regular hourly employees (maybe a couple have received a 10 cent and hour raise or something). Let's say that all 14 regular hourly employees work with the exact same ethic, they show up early, show the diligence and attention to detail of SpongeBob Squarepants (if you have kids like me and have ever seen the cartoon, he's pretty much the most ridiculously skilled burger flipper in all of existence), skip out on family functions such as reunions and holidays and weddings and funerals and EVERYTHING they can possibly put on hold to give the most efficient time to Bumtown McDonald's possible.. Do they all get to climb the ladder? There's no difference between any of them, not at all, for this theoretical scenario for illustrative purposes. What about the shift leaders, assistant managers and the general manager? They all do their job perfectly in Bumtown, and no one has any plans of quitting or firing anyone. Where do they go? To make things simple, Bumtown McDonald's is owned by a person with only one McDonald's franchise, so there is no possibility of an area manager. The regional manager or state manager position is currently being served by very capable and efficient people that show the exact same promise and potential as the Bumtown GM. Aside from that, there are several other GMs in the region and state that are identical to the Bumtown GM, so were the regional manager or state manager to die from natural causes, the Bumtown GM would be vying for the position against many other similar applicants. The entire chain of promotion at Bumtown rests on whether or not the GM dies or gets promoted, and even then, only one solitairy line of promotion can occur. Not everyone ranks up, only one person from each tier.

And THAT is NOT based on how good someone is at their job. If you are great at your current job, why promote you? If you show that you are wonderful at your job but have potential to lead, you may be promoted, but in all likelihood will NOT be promoted.

Going back to construction jobs.. A rodbuster (bridge builder, iron worker, wire worker) MUST have a set of pliers to operate. Jack the rodbuster bought a set of pliers in 2000 and oddly enough has never had to replace them. Best working set of pliers he has ever had.

Things are going well in 2011 for Jack the rodbuster, and now he has enough money to invest in more tools.

He is also in need to fill his toolbelt with the position of one (1) scissor snips tool.

Does he:

A. Spend the money and effort to take a perfectly good set of pliers to modify them and promote them to the rank of scissor snips (another tool he may need)?

B. Spend the money just buying a set of scissor snips, saving a little on cost and effort while ensuring the pliers remain in the most efficient position they have been known to serve as and while ensuring the scissor snips are actually well designed and not some half-ass job?

C. Spend the money on crystal meth and hookers?

If you answered C, you must have worked as a rodbuster at some point and we are very glad you made it out alive.

The point is, a fast food restaurant looks at a new hire as an investment. It takes such and such amount of time, energy, and less profit to get them trained to the point that the employee is making the company the ideal amount of profit by being efficient. Many times, the new hire quits before reaching max potential and the turnover rate is high, even nowadays.

If you have a great tool that does what its supposed to do, why fix something that isn't broken?

Ideally, for McDonald's, every employee would be a perfect employee. And then only rarely would anyone ever get promoted. The GM would hold the same GM position for 30 years, and the drive thru register clerks would hold their position for 30 years, like a crew on a ship at sea, no room to climb position or notice much change in benefits no matter the amount of work.

Do you see my point? The ladder gets narrower the higher you climb. Only a certain small amount of people can get promoted, no matter how hard they work.

For those posting "my neighbor worked his tail hind end off and now has a house and family because he is a hard worker and did what he was supposed to and is the general manager making loads of cash".. did that happen because your friend/acquaintance was the only hard worker? What about the ones that put the same or nearly equivalent effort in as your friend? Were they also promoted to the same position? Or are they still making minimum wage because in the end, There Can Be Only One and the corporate BS about "change your life and make a career at smiling face burger happytown" is really just a bunch of Highlander head chopping off where you have to kill or be killed. McDonald's gets to wear the face of "look how good we are to society, we promote from within and we offer potential careers!" but the very system they have in place offers no room for growth for most and the ones that do grow get to grow because they have pushed others out of the way somehow or another. Please do not try to convince me that you get to have a GM job by showing up on time, brushing your teeth every day, and paying attention to all the policies and procedures about when to take the chicken out of the molten grease. You just don't. You stay where you are at in all likelihood, doing the same thing, because if you are good at it and willing to be good at it for minimum wage, there's no reason to pay you more for something you might not be good at especially when the position is already filled by someone else.

LIES of the corporate devil

How many people in this thread are working for McDonald's directly or indirectly right now? Probably more than usual just because people are probably more prone to post about their employer when they see a thread about them, I'm sure, but that's not what I meant.. I mean how many people in this thread are being paid by McDonald's to post online in spots like this

Nobody try to BS me about being paranoid, either, I've seen the stuff corporations choose to do with referral tracking software and data analysis and forum elves.. They all are guilty of hiring people to pretend to represent their audience.. it lets them get a foot in the door and sway people through this or that link, or sway people to this idea or that idea.. anyone like that in here right now? I can smell it from far away.. know too much about it not to smell it.. if so, hope you like your current position because it's the only thing you'll be doing for the next 30 years and with no added benefits..

If you are like me, I'm not caught up in the search for gold doubloons, I'm happy living simply. That's all I want.

Most people aren't, though, and run into the adage "mo' money, mo' problems" and are constantly trying to financially better themselves.

That has a very low chance of occurring at McDonald's.

McDonald's is for someone that just absolutely has to do it to get by because they don't see another choice at the time, or for someone perfectly content at merely holding down some kind of job and just having enough to live a very simple life. McDonald's is not a career starter.

Originally posted by Radekus
The wages are insufficient to live off of, some people feel it more profitable, health wise,
to stay away from these jobs and rely on government assistance instead.
The alternative is crime, do you like that outcome?

There is little about the current economic climate I like. The fact is - no one has to do anything. It's all a matter of choice. People can choose to work any available job, or not. My personal opinion is that anyone doing honest work is to be, if not commended, certainly not stigmatized. People who "choose" government assistance when alternatives for work are available should not be commended. The crime comment is beneath you. I think you can do better than that.

A lot of people are hurting. A lot of people are doing things they never thought they'd have to. I'm not inclined to look down on anyone who's making an honest effort. I'm not saying you are, but there's certainly an undercurrent of that in this thread. That's my issue.

It's like the same bad math people use when playing the lottery. It's exactly like that, actually. Put in 20 years of hard labor for bunk pay for an against-the-odds chance of getting promoted? When others are doing the same thing? Don't buy into the allure of the illusion they try to market to their employees the same way a gas station lotto ad tries to market the allure of the illusion of winning it big. Chances are, your years and years of scratching off cards will never pay off. Yeah, someone playing the game will benefit, but as an exception to the rule. Getting promoted at McDonald's is an exception to the rule. Winning big on the lottery is an exception to the rule. The rule at McDonald's is you stay where you are at if you do well, not get promoted. The rule at the lottery is you have a big pile of losing tickets if you stay where you are at and buy well, not get riches.