Your Questions on Christianity Answered

Once you understand what God is you'll also understand that theres no reason to force your love of God.

You're not punished for breaking the commandments... Think of them more as a moral Code.

The only commandments you should obey is Love God with all your heart/soul/being, and love your neighbour as you love your own soul. Both of which coinside with one another...

So basically, when you break this moral code, you create Negitive Karma which corrects you in one way or another.

First of all, I understand god quite well, he's a manifestation of the human psyche conjured up hundreds of thousands of years ago by our earliest free thinking ancestors inorder to place naturally observed phenomenons within thier realm of understanding. These "gods" and their powers of awe over people who bowed down to them would eventually be manipulated by man as a tool of control.

Secondly, I'm not sure which religion you subscribe to, but I'm prety sure most Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths teach eternal damnation for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. (although the commandments not expressly stated in the Islamic religion). I believe these sins are called Mortal Sins.

Third, you're telling me to forget these commandments we've been discussing, and just love god. Nice.

And finally, Karma? Really? thats like a whole nother religion not even being discussed here.

reply to post by UndesirableNo1


Meh, New Testament is just vol.2 - updated, possibly a bit more merciful, possibly a little more fiery what with mention of hellfire. Commandments are Mosaic law, and common throughout all abrahamic scripture.

Besides, the New Testament was written to fulfil prophecies in the old.

Like the Harry Potter book, i'll save everyone the trouble - "He dies" - There you go, no need to read.

Originally posted by amaster

Once you understand what God is you'll also understand that theres no reason to force your love of God.

You're not punished for breaking the commandments... Think of them more as a moral Code.

The only commandments you should obey is Love God with all your heart/soul/being, and love your neighbour as you love your own soul. Both of which coinside with one another...

So basically, when you break this moral code, you create Negitive Karma which corrects you in one way or another.

First of all, I understand god quite well, he's a manifestation of the human psyche conjured up hundreds of thousands of years ago by our earliest free thinking ancestors inorder to place naturally observed phenomenons within thier realm of understanding. These "gods" and their powers of awe over people who bowed down to them would eventually be manipulated by man as a tool of control.

Secondly, I'm not sure which religion you subscribe to, but I'm prety sure most Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths teach eternal damnation for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. (although the commandments not expressly stated in the Islamic religion). I believe these sins are called Mortal Sins.

Third, you're telling me to forget these commandments we've been discussing, and just love god.

Nice.

And finally, Karma? Really? thats like a whole nother religion not even being discussed here.

Alright thats your understanding of God, im not here to teach my friend... believe whatever you like

Secondly I already told you i have no labels, i subscribe to no religion i study on my own and don't limit myself to one book. I've noticed you do a lot of assuming....you know what they say about those that assume right?

Third... Im not telling you to do anything. I said those are the commandments you should obey...all others are subject to the two Christ gave.

Finally....(but im sure this won't be final ) Karma has nothing to do with religion... though if you know where to look you can find references to it in the bible.

I have nothing to do with religion either btw....keep that in mind

Quote from awake_and_aware:
Secondly, I'm not sure which religion you subscribe to, but I'm prety sure most Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths teach eternal damnation for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. (although the commandments not expressly stated in the Islamic religion). I believe these sins are called Mortal Sins.

Slow down, there. First, Christians, Jews, and Muslims do not teach eternal damnation for breaking 1 of the 10 Commandments. That's a strong an un-researched assumption. The 10 Commandments were the "Law of Moses" to Jewish people - and a great sector of Jewish people actually disagree with the theology of Hell. I suggest you look into the different denominations of Judaism. Second, the 10 Commandments were rendered obsolete by Christ himself when he says the Laws were written for "man's wicked heart." In addition, he also disproves one, "An eye for an eye." Not with, "and eye for an eye makes the whole world blind," (good quote, though) but, "I say, love your enemy. Pray for him." Instead of gouge his eye out.

The New Testament is not the Old Testament 2.0 ;] If you've actually read it, and I mean...actually read it word per word, and even among Christianity this is rare (and I wish it not, for it would answer the questions for many curious people). It's the records following Christ. It begins with the different viewpoints and details following his ministry/life. Ancient peoples recorded everything, and this is just another word of mouth document with some first-hand anecdotes by the Apostles. It was very important in that it was a break from ancient Judaism, for example, Christ challenged the Sabath. That is a huge deal for that religion, and many still today. It's like an anarchist came forward and said the media is bull#. ;]

Originally posted by naeem11111
reply to post by Akragon

 

Right then here is your proof,

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

Do not have any other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave , or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Exodus 20:2-17

NOTE THE WORDS IN BOLD TEXT

However that's not the end of the show!

Observe what I command you today. See, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you.

You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles

(for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).

You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, someone among them will invite you, and you will eat of the sacrifice.

And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods.

You shall not make cast idols.

You shall keep the festival of unleavened bread. For seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.

All that first opens the womb is mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.

The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.

No one shall appear before me empty-handed.

For six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even in ploughing time and in harvest time you shall rest.

You shall observe the festival of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.

Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven, and the sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning.

The best of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

The Lord said to Moses: Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.
Exodus 34:11-27

These are the proper unedit commandments, which you will see taxation, border expansion through war, slavery and strict penalties passed on from Father to son. If you can't see the links, I will help you out, and how do you see all this as love? I would love to hear your reply.

-Naeem

Yes i do see love in all of that.... remember it was a time when many people had slaves. I also see many words written by jelous greedy men...

Clearly you do too

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by amaster

Once you understand what God is you'll also understand that theres no reason to force your love of God.

You're not punished for breaking the commandments... Think of them more as a moral Code.

The only commandments you should obey is Love God with all your heart/soul/being, and love your neighbour as you love your own soul. Both of which coinside with one another...

So basically, when you break this moral code, you create Negitive Karma which corrects you in one way or another.

First of all, I understand god quite well, he's a manifestation of the human psyche conjured up hundreds of thousands of years ago by our earliest free thinking ancestors inorder to place naturally observed phenomenons within thier realm of understanding. These "gods" and their powers of awe over people who bowed down to them would eventually be manipulated by man as a tool of control.

Secondly, I'm not sure which religion you subscribe to, but I'm prety sure most Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths teach eternal damnation for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. (although the commandments not expressly stated in the Islamic religion). I believe these sins are called Mortal Sins.

Third, you're telling me to forget these commandments we've been discussing, and just love god.

Nice.

And finally, Karma? Really? thats like a whole nother religion not even being discussed here.

Alright thats your understanding of God, im not here to teach my friend... believe whatever you like

Secondly

I already told you i have no labels, i subscribe to no religion i study on my own and don't limit myself to one book. I've noticed you do a lot of assuming....you know what they say about those that assume right?

Third... Im not telling you to do anything. I said those are the commandments you should obey...all others are subject to the two Christ gave.

Finally....(but im sure this won't be final

) Karma has nothing to do with religion... though if you know where to look you can find references to it in the bible.

I have nothing to do with religion either btw....keep that in mind

Everyone views the world through their own eyes. I hold no dillusions of ever changing that. I'm simply enjoying a civil and intelligent conversation.

As for my assuming, well, I apologize. Concidering the conversation at hand and your fervent defence of the 10 Commandments, it seems only fitting to think that you are speaking from a certain background of faith.

reply to post by amaster


Absolutly i understand what you're saying....i get it all the time though im quite used to it.

I have no religion. I see religion as helpful to some yet, handycaping to others such as myself. If you ever read anything i post you'll notice i don't judge...ever. I question, i state my point of view and will defend it with scripture if needed...

But everyone has their beliefs and im not here to change them. Only to clairify people understanding on certian matters.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Created in perfection? Can you prove this theory? Can you refute the evidence showing the contrary?

There's no denying that we are all half a chromosome away from chimpanzees. Natural selection has taken many of our species as we developed throughout history.

Some studies indicate that human population could have been as lower as 2,000 in the past.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Quite interesting observing evidence, instead of pretending we're all apart of some gruesome creation story.

edit on 21/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Excuse me? "Refute the evidence showing the contrary"? What evidence showing that we WEREN'T created in perfection?

Simply because we're half a chromosome from chimpanzees, doesn't mean we were once chimpanzees. It means we're similar, not the same.

As far as the bottleneck of the human population supposedly around 70,000BC...in which genetic scientists all agree that the breeding pairs of humans were dramatically decreased, as low as 1000, or possibly even lower....that fits nicely with a certain flood story I know ....as does the evolutionary migratory chart that shows all humans "evolved' and moved out of Africa...which fits nicely with another story I know...about a certain tower...

Interestingly enough, many of the animals of Eastern Africa(humans birthplace) suffered a similar population bottleneck...the chimpanzee, the bornean orangutan, central indian macaque, the cheetah, all tigers...all these and more recovered from very low numbers...in..DRUM ROLL....around 70,000-50,000 BC

So let's get this straight. Animals of Eastern Africa(humans birthplace) and the humans both suffered a bottleneck in population at the same time. Along with this, after the event the humans then migrated Eastward? Amazing that this is exactly what is described in the bible isn't it?

A2D

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

Here's an interesting video - Hitchen's destroys the 10 commandments and replaces them with an upgraded version.

Interesting yes...

Unfortunatly all he did was show how little he understands about God... He definatly didn't "destroy" anything... actually his most understanding statement in that whole video was at the beginning when he said "who am i to be lecturing about God" that was dead on lol

Riveting tale, chap.

Hitchens doesn't even attack a belief in God within that video. His points are that the Mosaic commandments are irrational and there are better "suggestions" as to how to go about living life without destroying each other and ourselves that could replace that of religion's "COMMANDS".

A point worth noting is that his replacements encompass both those who believe in a God and those who do not - I thought you'd be in favour of such acceptance and diversity.

You've already pointed out that you are closed mind, despite arguing otherwise.

Fact is, i am willing to renounce my Atheism. I'm willing to be proved wrong.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

Excuse me? "Refute the evidence showing the contrary"?

Perfection is subjective and arbitrary. There's your refutation. Deal with it.

I just want to throw in my view on the Ten Commandments real quick.

The ten commandments, although there were several hundred commandments, were put in place for the benefit of mankind. They are a template to show us how to love God and how to love people. Jesus clarifies this by saying, in Matthew 22,

“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Note the bold: On these two commandments hang all the law. Obviously, the law is the law of Moses, aka the commandments. This tells us the basis of the law of Moses is indeed love.

The first four commandments instruct us on how to love God. The last six show us how to love people.

There are more verses of scripture that clarify this.

John 15:10 - “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

Romans 13:8 - “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”

I hope this is sufficient yet brief.

A2D

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Fact is, i am willing to renounce my Atheism. I'm willing to be proved wrong.

I did respond to you. If you are willing to be open-minded from another perspective and proven wrong, then what is your greatest struggle with faith (I am not going to use the word religion, because even religious people can lack faith) that allows you to disagree so strongly with it? I am not asking this out of hostility, and any other non-theist is also welcomed to share his/her answer.

Please keep in mind my question is non-judgemental (I have no authority to judge, and I wish my many brothers and sisters would remember the same) and look forward to different perspectives.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Perfection is subjective and arbitrary. There's your refutation. Deal with it.

All I see is an opinion, I see no evidence.

A2D

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

Here's an interesting video - Hitchen's destroys the 10 commandments and replaces them with an upgraded version.

Interesting yes...

Unfortunatly all he did was show how little he understands about God... He definatly didn't "destroy" anything... actually his most understanding statement in that whole video was at the beginning when he said "who am i to be lecturing about God" that was dead on lol

Riveting tale, chap.

Hitchens doesn't even attack a belief in God within that video. His points are that the Mosaic commandments are irrational and there are better "suggestions" as to how about living life without destroying each other and ourselves that could replace that of religions "COMMANDS". A point worth noting is that his replacements encompass both those who believe in a God and those who do not - I thought you'd be in favour of such acceptance.

You've already pointed out that you are closed mind, despite arguing otherwise.

Fact is, i am willing to renounce my Atheism. I'm willing to be proved wrong.

I didn't say he attacked anything....again with the assuming Yes there are better ways of looking at the commandments, as i've said in a reply to.... the other guy i was talking with The commandments are there and they're about love but theres also words written by jelous greedy men. Likely with men with agendas for controling the populous. They say things like "if you DON'T do exactly what it says, you'll burn in hell" I call that Bullsh!t

I didn't point out i was close minded either, actually quite the opposite. I know what i know, and i welcome people to prove me wrong... If they can, im still learning right

Im not trying to get you to renounce whatever you believe, again thats not why i post in religious threads. Nor am i trying to convert you to anything. If you have a question i can probably explain it to you with out using scripture or with...its up to you, though i prefer using my own words... Im easier to understand

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
I just want to throw in my view on the Ten Commandments real quick.

The ten commandments, although there were several hundred commandments, were put in place for the benefit of mankind. They are a template to show us how to love God and how to love people. Jesus clarifies this by saying, in Matthew 22,

“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Note the bold: On these two commandments hang all the law. Obviously, the law is the law of Moses, aka the commandments. This tells us the basis of the law of Moses is indeed love.

The first four commandments instruct us on how to love God. The last six show us how to love people.

There are more verses of scripture that clarify this.

John 15:10 - “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

Romans 13:8 - “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”

I hope this is sufficient yet brief.

A2D

Excellent



Hey wait, i thought you were saying they arn't about love....

Now im confused

reply to post by Akragon


I never said that....

you and some other individual were discussing the commandments, I just hopped in...

A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Akragon

 

I never said that....

you and some other individual were discussing the commandments, I just hopped in...

A2D

edit on 21-4-2011 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)

heh, whups wrong guy...

sorry man

reply to post by UndesirableNo1


I'm interested in knowledge.

Will you ask a scientist to have faith that the earth is flat?

I don't consider "faith" a virtue; believing before having evidence is not progressive at all. Christians detested Gallileo's "theory" that the Earth infact travelled around the sun. Despite him having the evidence to prove it. The Christians have only apologised in the last century.

My concerns are addressed by Bertram Russells Teapot analogy;

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial teapot, Cosmic teapot or Bertrand's teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate the idea that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claimed that a teapot were orbiting the sun, it would be nonsense for him to expect others not to doubt him just because they could not prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God. The analogy has also been used by sociologists to denote correlations with religion and social conformity.[citation needed]

"Russell's Teapot"

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


It's your opinion that's it's opinion.

There is no evidence for your contrary argument. So like the "Good" and "Evil" we find ourselves dancing around subjectivity - What is right and what is wrong? Which piece of music has the most beauty?

The eye of the beholder declares the perfection or lack of perfection and thus the subjectivity.



Just because nature has symetry, or cohesion, just because it contains systems, biological and chemical, doesn't mean that it's automatically perfect. Again, if species were perfect 99.8% of exinct species would still exist. Again, perfection is subjective. Who achieved perfection? was it Mozart or was it Bethoven, Perhaps Justin Bieber? Sure we'll have differing opinions.

Looking forward to seeing the evidence, justification/reasoning for your disagreement.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I'm interested in knowledge. Will you ask a scientist to have faith that the earth is flat? I don't consider "faith" a virtue; believing before having evidence is not progressive at all. Christians detested Gallileo's "theory" that the Earth infact travelled around the sun. Despite him having the evidence to prove it. The Christians have only apologised in the last century. My concerns are addressed by Bertram Russells Teapot analogy;

We are all interested in knowledge, that's why we 'hope' to seek the truth on ATS. Would I ask a scientist to have faith that the Earth is flat? Would you? This seems to be a contrived contradictory argument in that science does not conclude knowledge based on faith being as how faith is non-empirical, but you already knew that. If memory serves me correct, the Catholic church persecuted Gallileo, but is that your personal answer to my question as to what the hardest thing about faith you struggle with? Surely you can't be offended on behalf of the apology you mentioned. For Gallileo was proven correct, his research lives on, and the people who disagreed are already in their graves. I was asking for a more personal reason. If you feel the reason why you lack faith in a God is too personal to share on a public forum, you are welcome to PM me.