What is your version of UTOPIA?

Mine are . . .

end of menstrus
no birthing pains
people who laugh at flowers
no tax/penalty/fee above 3.4999%
universal shoes (underwater, walk on water, run, fly, high altitude cloud naps, space walk)
no internal combustion in city limits (cities would redefine themselves as smaller instead of swallowing the rural)
Only one set of laws, and that, small enough to be memorized
overturn all laws pertaining to computer code beyond copyright

It is my opinion that computer code IS law, and that these old fossils trying to legislate code from the bench are just making for a horribly broken tangle of nighmares for coders. If a coder can't program a computer to do it, then by the laws of science it is illegal already. For the past ten years every new breakthrough in coding has made more money for lawyers than anyone else.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by AnteBellum
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I agree we are slaves to the resources on our planet. But soon we will be slaves to the resources in our universe which for all intents and purposes are limitless. There are nebulas of alcohol, stars made of diamond, planets having tons of gold and elements we don't even know about or have uses for yet.
So I can see space travel being pretty much the same as the gold rush, just not to california!

Oh, sure...FTL travel mastery would be a game changer also
I imagine colonys established of every single type of lifestyle on a global scale somewhere
liberaltopia, Conservatopia, a planet devoted to strict islam, another planet where religion is outlawed, etc...take your pick, and the only universal law is that anyone can leave at any time should they find the planet they are born into is made of fail.

But, while stuck on this planet, give me the option to upload to the net and I am good...will make my own reality then.

I imagine my personal utopia looks alot like the (game?) virtual world secondlife. be whatever you want to be, and create whatever it is you want to create, by yourself or with others..form your own personal world.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


erm...what?

not sure what code your talking about that is illegal...
we talking torrent type stuff, or like...

ok, totally lost..beyond copyright law, what law dictates how code is formed or functions limited?

Originally posted by AnteBellum
reply to post by yourmaker

 

Isn't that what we have now to some degree?!?

I think a world of clones might work!?!

besides the mass of people being educated, in a way

Originally posted by AnteBellum
reply to post by Elzon

 

I'm already thinking about how to take advantage of such a system.

But good point none the less! Thanks

Well, this monetary system is devoid of debt so its very hard to enslave people (if damned near impossible). The only way to gain any "advantage" in such a system is to produce something people want. This will give you what you need if you want to accomplish any personal goals up to a limit of when your goals interferes with someone else's liberties.

I have had this idea in memory for 2 years now, there is no concievable way of taking advantage of people without giving them what they want or need and you will be in competition with others who want to do the same thing.

I will give everyone a challenge. Under the system I previously described how do you go about attaining the basic neccesities without the power to forefully take it or the capability to produce it for yourself (you can't work for it). Tell me how this is done to prove your understanding of the previously described system.

My Utopia would be a world where people would not do to others what they don't want others to do to them.
They would act like a good Samaritan, and they will not bother to force their ways of thinking.

I think that would be a pretty good start.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

erm...what?

not sure what code your talking about that is illegal...
we talking torrent type stuff, or like...

ok, totally lost..beyond copyright law, what law dictates how code is formed or functions limited?

cybercrime.gov

Look at the penalties being handed out on this page.
That should help understanding "what code your talking about that is illegal..."

And before I am accused of being _for_ fraud let me just say a few things.

Isn't it already illegal to steal,
Isn't fraud already illegal,
Why all the new laws?

By what authority does the fed double down on existing crimes by putting a new layer of laws cause those crimes were done with a computer. Take murder, for instance, do we have one set of penalties for murder, but another set that doubles the penalties if that murder was commited with a gun?

These are all just precedent building cases
so the courts and lawyers can do one thing, and one thing only.
Convince the public that they own and control what we do with our computers.

I mean seriously "Former Goldman Sachs Computer Programmer Sentenced to 97 Months in Prison for Stealing Firm’s Trade Secrets" 97 months ???

Arent' trade secrets _already_ protected.
Murder is murder, theft is theft.
But this... this "omg its theft AND dey useded a computer omg" is pure excrement.


David Grouchy

In my Utopia everyone would be able to create and heal with the power of the mind.
There would be no need for money, we can create what we desire.
There would be no need for power or corruption or leaders, no one would care about those who still want that, no one would need anything of anyone except friendship and love.

things will figure themselves out in a short matter of time and everyone can become healthy and happy.

voila, my utopia

In my opinion a Utopia can not be achieved until a method for controlling both power and resources is satisfied.
That being said there must also be a way to physically control every aspect of the human body.

Now this may sound weird or outlandish but.... What I am talking about is a method for either instantaneously or over a period of a few weeks or months be able to change your skin color, sex, or any other physical aspect, at will.

What does this mean ultimately? Well it simply means that a Utopian society in my opinion will not be achieved for a very long time, as the subjects I mentioned are quite advanced. We are basically talking about a "post scarcity society" that wants for nothing. Never hungry, never thirsty, moreover whatever you want you can have, even to the point of gross excess. A person does not need to ever be ill or die for any reason other than for the personal experience. (If they choose). Everything is supplied for you to the most minute degrees with out having to manage any systems. This leaves the individual free to explore, play, and peruse personal pleasures.

People are no longer born, they are created as adult, unless chosen.
People have the ability to do most anything, fly, go invisible, change shape, go non physical, travel between a compute world and a real world, ect. ect.

I seriously doubt such a society can exist within a class 0 civilization and probably nothing short of a class 3 at that. simply put this kind of existence probably will not exist for a million years, that's being generous. This is of course unless a quantum leap in technology occurs which we may have in some aspects but are being told otherwise.

reply to post by Elzon


firstly, this is my Utopian fantasy. I don't know why you felt the need to try to educate me on the monetary system...? tread on my dreams much?

secondly, my initial statement stands. sure, trade, trade goods for goods, or information, or services, whatever your want, But i don't believe that anything needs a dollar value. its just stuff. money segregates us more than religion, without money, no poor, no rich. If someone wants a bigger house than someone else. let them build it. If someone wants more food, let them grow it, if someone wants more stuff, let them trade for it or make it themselves. do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else.

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by Elzon

 

firstly, this is my Utopian fantasy. I don't know why you felt the need to try to educate me on the monetary system...? tread on my dreams much?

secondly, my initial statement stands. sure, trade, trade goods for goods, or information, or services, whatever your want, But i don't believe that anything needs a dollar value. its just stuff. money segregates us more than religion, without money, no poor, no rich. If someone wants a bigger house than someone else. let them build it. If someone wants more food, let them grow it, if someone wants more stuff, let them trade for it or make it themselves. do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else.

First, you said no money.

Money = the most common medium of exchange

Money is not a human invention, everything in nature (plants, animals, even enitre galaxies) uses a transaction system and therefore must come under a system of exchange. Although there may not be a "common" medium of exchange, nature still uses the concept of money on a moment to moment basis.

So, to say "earth, without money" seemed to be a contradictory statement based on ignorance of reality. If you would please direct your attention to the side bars of this thread you may see the phrase "deny ignorance" and that is exactly what I am doing to your statement.

As for your second paragraph here.... icky

"i don't believe that anything needs a dollar value. its just stuff."

Sure we don't have to use "dollar" as a standard but "stuff" still has value... water has value, food has value, etc. You will need some sort of standard of exhange if you want a society not living in the stone age.

"money segregates us more than religion, without money, no poor, no rich."

What you seem to misunderstand is that we are born segregated and we have to figure out how to come back together. And yes people can be born poor or rich depending on where they were born and under what existing conditions, getting rid of money (back to the stone age) doesn't avoid this fact.

"If someone wants a bigger house than someone else. let them build it."

What if I give someone else what they want so they can build a big house for me

"If someone wants more food, let them grow it"

In what geographical location? Under what soil conditions?

"if someone wants more stuff, let them trade for it or make it themselves."

Ah, theres that word trade So you would limit people to barter huh? You do realize some things could no longer be made if we all had to use barter? You don't seem to realize that money itself is a very useful tool for humanity. Money in its purest form is not a limiter on humanity. It's various types of monetary system's that determine how and why money is made, transfered, and destroyed. I can see that the current monetary system in which money is entirely based on debt has given you a "bad taste in your mouth" as to the thought of money. This of course is due to the fact that you born into such a system and it has come to be a limiter to you and many others... including me. What you fail to recognize is that today's monetary system does not hold to the true meaning of money as the most common means of exchange. Today's monetary system replaced the idea of money with indebted servitude or "money" based on debt. Instead of completely discarding reality (read: ignorance) perhaps you could change it

"do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else."

Exactly

But, today's monetary system based on debt doesn't hold to that now does it?

It has been a pleasure talking to you

reply to post by Elzon


What if I want to control the masses for my own devious purpose, this would be my want.
And I found people who were willing to do terrible things so I could achieve this goal, the reward being what they get from me.
Couldn't this type of system still fail due to inside corruption and power mongering?

I'll try and keep it short:

Utopia = Everyone has extreme empathy just like some fictional superheroes or something, to the point where it hurts you too if others hurt. Then maybe we'd all work together to cure everyone's pain, not just your mom, or your son, or something in your backyard. No pick and choose, let's help everyone that's down.


that's it

Originally posted by Elzon

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by Elzon

 

firstly, this is my Utopian fantasy. I don't know why you felt the need to try to educate me on the monetary system...? tread on my dreams much?

secondly, my initial statement stands. sure, trade, trade goods for goods, or information, or services, whatever your want, But i don't believe that anything needs a dollar value. its just stuff. money segregates us more than religion, without money, no poor, no rich. If someone wants a bigger house than someone else. let them build it. If someone wants more food, let them grow it, if someone wants more stuff, let them trade for it or make it themselves. do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else.

First, you said no money.

Money = the most common medium of exchange

Money is not a human invention, everything in nature (plants, animals, even enitre galaxies) uses a transaction system and therefore must come under a system of exchange. Although there may not be a "common" medium of exchange, nature still uses the concept of money on a moment to moment basis.

So, to say "earth, without money" seemed to be a contradictory statement based on ignorance of reality. If you would please direct your attention to the side bars of this thread you may see the phrase "deny ignorance" and that is exactly what I am doing to your statement.

As for your second paragraph here.... icky

"i don't believe that anything needs a dollar value. its just stuff."

Sure we don't have to use "dollar" as a standard but "stuff" still has value... water has value, food has value, etc. You will need some sort of standard of exhange if you want a society not living in the stone age.

"money segregates us more than religion, without money, no poor, no rich."

What you seem to misunderstand is that we are born segregated and we have to figure out how to come back together. And yes people can be born poor or rich depending on where they were born and under what existing conditions, getting rid of money (back to the stone age) doesn't avoid this fact.

"If someone wants a bigger house than someone else. let them build it."

What if I give someone else what they want so they can build a big house for me

"If someone wants more food, let them grow it"

In what geographical location? Under what soil conditions?

"if someone wants more stuff, let them trade for it or make it themselves."

Ah, theres that word trade

So you would limit people to barter huh? You do realize some things could no longer be made if we all had to use barter? You don't seem to realize that money itself is a very useful tool for humanity. Money in its purest form is not a limiter on humanity. It's various types of monetary system's that determine how and why money is made, transfered, and destroyed. I can see that the current monetary system in which money is entirely based on debt has given you a "bad taste in your mouth" as to the thought of money. This of course is due to the fact that you born into such a system and it has come to be a limiter to you and many others... including me. What you fail to recognize is that today's monetary system does not hold to the true meaning of money as the most common means of exchange. Today's monetary system replaced the idea of money with indebted servitude or "money" based on debt. Instead of completely discarding reality (read: ignorance) perhaps you could change it

"do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else."

Exactly

But, today's monetary system based on debt doesn't hold to that now does it?

It has been a pleasure talking to you

excuse me sir or madam... but to say that money is intrinsic to life itself, is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard...

by your logic, I punch water...my energy is transfered into the water.... water splashes.... profit?

You will need some sort of standard of exhange if you want a society not living in the stone age.

here is my standard of exchange. "hey, i need food because im hungry and my crops didn't grow well" "ok, I have extra, here you go". or "hey, can I have some water?" "yeah sure, its right over there"

did you see that? look closely... I just .... omg i just exchanged goods.... for no money! is your brain exploding? cause mine sure is!

You do realize some things could no longer be made if we all had to use barter?

you do realize I don't care because this is a Utopian FANTASY (i believe you missed this part)

Don't come at me with this "deny ignorance" bull, the op asked an open, speculative, interpretive question, i don't know how my imagination can be ignorant.

I don't know why your trying to belittle my fantasy by any means possible, even resorting to an obscure ridiculous theory that the universe is money. but, It wont work. Because you sir, or madam, are the ignorant one.

ps. your not invited to my utopia.