posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 08:44 AM
Hi Sir Kill Alot:
Your position on "homosexuality in Nature" and the whole concept of "gay marriages" is whacked. Your prejudice is evidently taken from the Hebrew
Scriptures ("be fruitful and multiply, and cover the face of the land") reflecting a Judeo-Christian weltanshauung.
Are you one of those "Bible Believing Christians" who believe a document they cannot even read in the original?
Are you a trained "anthropologist" who knows anything at all about human sexuality?
Despite your ignorant rhetoric to the contrary MOTHER NATURE has no opinion whatsoever on HomoSexuality: NATURE in fact has no declaration either way
about either homosexuality, heterosexuality, bi sexuality or even a-sexuality: to NATURE (i.e. the natural world) SEX is just, well...SEX, with no
And there is a great deal of scientific evidence recently released to the general public that higher primates (such as dolphins, orangutans and
homo-sapiens-sapiens etc.) practice homosexuality in various forms throughout the adult sexual cycle without any hinderance.
Most of this important scientific evidence is now being published for the masses for the first time since it was first scientifically analysed in the
1950s and 1960s--having been supressed by political motives (fear of losing grant money, from protests within government or religious institutions who
DO NOT want this information out). But we are living in the Information Age, and Tought Titty Said the Kitty:
Here's a recent posting onthe subject I just couldn't resist:
"Same-sex birds do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bi-sexual activity
is actually fairly common within the Animal Kingdom.
Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now.
They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have anal sex, while
ignoring and even shunning potential female mates.
Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests,
and even raise foster chicks.
On the other hand, they could just be amusing themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta,
"They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says.
"They just like doing it with each other. Two males, bumping and grinding away. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff for them, but they
continue to do it anyway."
So much for Mother Nature.
Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think
that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."
The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive
and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual.
Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve
conflicts between individuals.
Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual
partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently.
Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.
"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it,"
notes de Waal.
Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates.
The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.
So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality?
Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England.
"The bottom line is that anything that happens in other higher Primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary
continuity with what happens in Humans," he said.
Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for purely social bonding is a possible example, adding,
"One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are
dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."
No, Sir Kill Alot: Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom is rife, and your Hebrew Scriptures are UNSCIENTIFIC SUPERSTITION (after all, the sun and the
stars were NOT REALLY created AFTER Vegetation, but you'd never know that by reading Genesis 1:5-6---so much for the Bible!)
And yet you have the audacity to quote Genesis to support your warped ideas about Gay Sex (or even "Gay Marriage")?
If you like your bible stories so much, try reading I Samuel chapter 20 when Saul the ClanChief of Israelite Tribelets found David and Jonathan doing
more than, well...holding hands and exchanging Underwear:
"You son of a Perverse and Rebellious Female ! Don;t you know that you have chosen to MARRY to SON OF JESSE to the Confusion of your MOTHER's
NAKEDNESS and to your own CONFUSION? How will your DYNASTY be established if you continue like this (i.e with another male)?"
But David wrote some very moving Love Poetry to his darling when his lover Jonathan was killed in battle against the Filistin:
"O Jonathan, Jonathan! My Love for You was Full of Mystery..FAR SURPASSING THAT OF WOMAN!" (Read it for yourself, bible boy: 2 Samuel chapter 1)
Now why on earth would you base your warped ideas of SEX IN NATURE on the ravings of the levitical priests ("thou shalt not lie man on man, it is
ritual Abomination...") or with the racist vomit placed into the mouth of the xenophobic maniac clan god of post Exilic Israel (YHWH or "Yahweh")
which you can read in your English translations of the Masoretic text of the unpointed Paleo Hebrew?
Do you even know what a ritual "abomination" is (Heb. Toqebah) within the cult of YHWH?
Can you even read the Paleo-Hebrew of Bere#h (Genesis) ??
Then why do you insist on quoting a text you cannot even read, let alone understand, then try to get people on this thread to believe your warped rosy
coloured view of NATURE and the role that gay sex plays in it?
You're deluding yourself. Look around and see the world the way it is.
By the way, I like your moniker (Sir Kill Alot): the clan god of the Jews would like it too (read Deuteronomy chapter 20 and Deuteronomy chapter 13:
"genocide them all, leave nothing breathing, the men, the women, the children and the animals--burn their bones upon my altar as a perpetual
holocaust, saith YHWH the clan god of Israel...")
So much for your Biblical "God..." !