Did Tutankhamun's trumpet bring on WW2, The First Gulf War and The Egyptian uprising?

I saw this article on the BBC news site today about Tutankhamun's 3000 year old trumpet and was blown away by it. (Pardon the pun)

For more than 3,000 years they had lain, muted, in the Valley of the Kings, close to the mummy of the boy king. Found in different parts of Tutankhamun's tomb, both were decorated with depictions of Egyptian gods identified with military campaigns.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Ok so the story goes like this.

In 1922 among the treasures found in the Valley of the Kings, believed to be belonging to the boy Pharaoh Tutankhamun, were two trumpets. These ancient and extremely delicate instruments were decorated with military symbols. These trumpets were silent for over 3000 years until the BBC managed to convice the Cairo Museum to have them played and record their sound.

in 1939 the Egyptian Antiquities Service was persuaded to take part in a BBC broadcast to the world from the Cairo Museum.

Rex Keating, a radio pioneer who helped convince the museum, was chosen to present it to an estimated 150 million listeners worldwide one Sunday afternoon.

You can listen to this original broadcast on the article’s page

(let me know if those outside the UK can hear the audio or not and I will try and find another source)

It truly is a haunting sound, and the imagination goes wild when you think back to when the sound was last heard and who were the listeners and original players.

That alone is incredible, but then the story takes a twist!

In the BBC recording a military soldier and bandsman, James Tappern was chosen to play the instrument. Just before the instrument was about to be played all the lights in Cario went out and the broadcast had to take place by candle light. The broadcast was heard by 150 million listeners’ world wide. This had to have been the most amount of people to ever hear this ancient instrument being played. Shortly after the broadcast World War 2 broke out. (Nothing but a coincidence surely)

Due to the very delicate state of the trumpets they have only been played a handful of times. Once just before the first Gulf War and once just before the latest Egyptian uprising by a member of staff in the Cairo Museum. The curator of the Tutankhamen section of the Cairo museum claims that the trumpet is responsible for causing these wars.

Bandsman Tappern had, after all, played the trumpet shortly before World War II broke out. Cairo Museum's Tutankhamun curator claims the trumpet retains "magical powers" and was blown before the first Gulf War, and by a member of staff the week before the Egyptian uprising.

Ok so my wild imagination is thinking the following

Sounds create vibrations at certain frequencies and can have tremendous power.
Look into Solfeggio frequencies and sacred sounds that are said to have powers and effect humans.

Biblical and Jewish stories of the horns having mystical powers such as the horn that crumbled down the walls of Jericho

the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

Jewish Shofar horn

Tesla’s vibration machine that nearly collapsed a sky scraper. ATS Thread

The military symbols on the trumpets, combined with the fact that a soldier played them to 150 million listeners across the world then world war 2 broke out

The other times it was played and the other violent conflicts that took place soon after

The sensible/boring part of my brain is thinking.

Nonsense, there were a number of other factors that were well underway before these wars broke out

Cairo Museum's Tutankhamen curator who is pushing this story just wants to attract attention for the museum and get business booming again.

ATS what do you think? Does anyone have any more information on these trumpets, and any so called stories of instruments being able to summon war in any ancient cultures?

Peace

These horns were used to alarm a large number of people to a command before or during war. Put in capable hands (such as the ancestors of dizzy galespie), they could have incited anger or put soldiers in the mood for blood. But, war as an effect of hearing resonating tones from an old horn? that sounds more like a paranormal post. The horn would need powers not of this world.
As humans in the 21st century, we do a tremendous amount of r&d with auditory tones. The music/recording industry would have found something similar.
Come to think of it, maybe the bass found in rap music causes gang violence! That sounds like all the r&d we need.

reply to post by cosmicslop


Really? Powers not of this world, or powers that we do not fully understand yet?

I've heard of a type of sound played at political rallies to help stir up the crowd (I cant remember the name of it but sound at he right frequencies and decibels level defiantly can have a psychological effect and physiological effect on human beings)

Audio worked for me (in US). Interesting stuff, thought I'm sure it's all a coincidence about the wars. Then again, what that's saying about "there are no coincidences".

I didn't see you mention this from the article:

Both became exhibits at the Cairo museum, but when it was broken into during the recent uprising, the bronze instrument vanished. Luckily, the silver one was away on exhibition tour.

Of course I'm sure that's coincidence again...

reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey


In 1939 - war was inevitable - trumpet or no trumpet

King Tut's curse

A whole science has sprung up around the study of ancient music, where the original instruments are too fragile to play or no longer exist.

Archaeologists and archaeomusicologists are still able to get a sense of how they might have sounded.

Richard Dumbrill, considered the world's leading authority on the Music of the Ancient Near East, is one. He reconstructed the Silver Lyre of Ur, discovered by Leonard Woolley in modern-day Iraq around the same time that Tutankhamun's tomb was excavated.


The trumpets were first played just before World War II broke out, but could they really summon war?
Mr Woolley, a brilliant archaeologist, recognised a pile of twisted metal in a tomb as the remains of a 5,000-year-old lyre. He poured wax into the space where the instrument had lain to recover the shape.

Mr Dumbrill used the cast and Mr Woolley's notes to recreate the lyre, including the animal gut strings. The sounds it makes conjures up a world even more ancient than Tutankhamun's.

The Lost Sound Orchestra, as its name suggests, aims to bring other ancient worlds to life. Using laptops, experts try to make digital sound from virtual instruments - such as those shown on ancient Greek vases. They started with the epigonion (an ancient stringed instrument) from the 2nd Century BC.

But this is not just an academic exercise - the project creates the possibility of an orchestra of lost sounds gathered from all over the world via digital technology.

As Tutankhamun's trumpet echoes once more, the loss - and return - of such a celebrated artefact is convincing some of Tutankhamun's celebrated curse. Not least the trumpet's apparent ability to summon up war.

Bandsman Tappern had, after all, played the trumpet shortly before World War II broke out. Cairo Museum's Tutankhamun curator claims the trumpet retains "magical powers" and was blown before the first Gulf War, and by a member of staff the week before the Egyptian uprising.

Nice story! It would be something if it could summon war.

Both became exhibits at the Cairo museum, but when it was broken into during the recent uprising, the bronze instrument vanished. Luckily, the silver one was away on exhibition tour.

But the missing one has been found!

The trumpet was recently found - reportedly with other Tutankhamun artefacts in a bag on the Cairo Metro.

BBC NEWS Article on the Trumpets

Cool story bra!

reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey


S&F interesting! Reminds me of the "Spear of Cain" another "accursed" totem making the rounds among warmongering dictators. I hope its true because if the horn starts wars then it lifts some of the responsibility from habitually stupid people who believe maniacal leaders and send their kids into a murderous war zone on behalf of their country. It isn't even self defense anymore. Was it ever, who knows?
Those soldiers that survive come home with PTSD. From what I see actual gains are negligible and I think we can achieve somewhere near the same results by thinking harder and striking less.

Sounds create vibrations at certain frequencies and can have tremendous power.

I also hope it is true because if it is then the reverse should be true. There must be an instrument stashed somewhere that brings about worldwide PEACE. Let's get that party started!

reply to post by msfitte


No I forgot that bit, another twist in the tale!.

Fascinating stuff indeed, but it is most likely a PR stunt, right?

Some more thoughts from me on this.

The broadcast to 150 mil listeners made me think of the global consciousness project. noosphere.princeton.edu... If human consciousness can affect machines can it also be the other way around?

Maybe the sound is capable of harmonizing negative energy in people enough to be the tipping point for war?

The archaic Egyptian instruments that have been unearthed, so far, are largely tuned to 432 hz. In ancient Greece (the school book original place for music) their instruments were predominantly tuned at 432 hz. Within the archaic Greek Eleusenian Mysteries, Orpheus is the god of music, death and rebirth, and was the keeper of the Ambrosia and the music of transformation (his instruments were tuned at 432 hz).

Sacred Frequencies

You want to start ww3,plasing the link to when it was played before ww2 ? Lol

reply to post by Arcfyre


haha, no but maybe the bbc did by posting the article...

seriously tho. (conspiracy nut time) what if the masons knew of the power of the trumpet got the BBC to broadcast the original playing of it back then, knowing that it would help seal the deal and ensure the 2nd great war was a certainty...

Did Tutankhamun's trumpet bring on WW2, The First Gulf War and The Egyptian uprising?

I think the short answer to that is: no. I suspect the longer one is also: no.

Cool story though - I enjoyed it.

By 1939 both Germany and and Japan had invaded several countries, and had drawn up extensive plans for invading others (Western Europe and Russia in the case of Germany). It's difficult to see how they might have called the whole thing off should someone have not played a trumpet on the radio.

What we aren't told is how often these trumpets have been played and absolutely nothing at all happened.

This is a classic case of post hoc ergo propter fallacy:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because of this," is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) that states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation, or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant.

Post hoc is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence appears to be integral to causality. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection.

reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey
I guess Tut's trumpet interrupted 3000 years of neighbourly love in the Middle East and peace in Europe?

What we need right now is a specops-team to track down and round up all the trumpet owners out there. Once they're all silenced, we can begin the process of rebuilding the world and reassigning the brass sections of orchestras to less destructive occupations.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey

 

I guess Tut's trumpet interrupted 3000 years of neighbourly love in the Middle East and peace in Europe?

What we need right now is a specops-team to track down and round up all the trumpet owners out there. Once they're all silenced, we can begin the process of rebuilding the world and reassigning the brass sections of orchestras to less destructive occupations.

What about trombones?

They're pretty trumpet-like.

Should we round them up as well?

French horns are menacing.

Good Lord! I just realized! Think what a Sousaphone could do!!!

Harte

Trumpets inciting war?

I wonder what will happen when 2 billion people listen to a handful of trumpets during the Royal Wedding on the 29th of April. Probably nothing.

This would make good Dan Brown novel.

Originally posted by AkaAlternate
Trumpets inciting war?

I wonder what will happen when 2 billion people listen to a handful of trumpets during the Royal Wedding on the 29th of April. Probably nothing.

This would make good Dan Brown novel.

Oh man,.. that's all we need. Another Dan Brown novel! Things are bad enough the way they are at the minute

OP: very interesting theory, and it did make for a good read. But I think I'm going to call coincidence on this one. The sounds those trumpets made was amazing though

Titanic comes to mind with this thread.

I think it's an urban legend, last time I checked it was never proved otherwise but apparently there was an Egyptian Mummy on the Titanic which was meant to have a curse.

Come to your own conclusions.

Egypt is SO full of mystery it's unreal.

Interesting.
This reminds me of Drakes drum.

The idea of anything inciting a war is not a very good one.

Societies are complex, and the causes for going to war are many. WWII had its roots in the aftermath of WWI, which had ITS roots in the European conflicts of the 1800's and so on and so forth. A few toots weren't responsible for economic crashes, bigots, the invasion of countries by other countries, food riots, and so forth.
en.wikipedia.org...

Since the age of radio began, we've heard all sorts of sounds (and back in THOSE days, sound fidelity was very poor and scratchy (full of static)), none of which retroactively caused various ethnic groups to automatically hate other ethnic groups. While speeches can directly inflame certain situations, a toot or six on any instrument doesn't represent an argument for action for military invasion, racism, economic failure, and so forth.

Tutankahmen's trumpet was played a few times during his very short life and probably not at many military campaigns. It was similar to trumpets owned by other pharaohs. It's special because it is such a rare artifact... but it has no power over history.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey


Yes.
Yes it did.
No other reason.
Frankly, nothing else could have caused it at all, as there was no previous historical event that could have possibly have led to, in any way, shape or form, the rise to power of the Nazi party in Germany, or angry Egyptians pushing off years of torture, violence, and opression.

Definitely the magic mummy bugle thing.
Definitely.

Unless Egypt was because of that Vuvuzela thing from the world cup.
That could start a riot anywhere.

Wow sarcasm overload from some of you. I read this on the BBC so my thread title was a bit outthere but only because of the source where the idea of such an insane possibility was suggested in the first place was a reputable one.

I would have thought the fact that I said in the thread that the sensible part of my brain thinks this is Nonsense would haved stopped any scarcastic and rude replies, however this is ATS after all where many look no further than thread titles and choose to ignore content. Yes it probably never caused the wars, I'll use a thread title a bit less sensationalist in future, something like, crazy 'Egyptian curator thinks trupmet started WW2'.