Overpopulation? Elitest Propaganda and Damned Lies Lies Lies!

reply to post by spikey

There are only two choices.

Carry on as we are in our present self centred, profit and wealth based systems and expect severe population controls, further polluting of the planet, and resources increasingly available to a relative few.
Or we can avoid *all* of the above, painlessly, with only a change in our perceptions and the will to drive the required impetus to implement the changes, to let go of the old ideas of personal/national avarice, and work towards a new fresher and beneficial future for all of us.

Like I have said, to take the negative path or the positive path, these are our only options.

If population control mechanisms got rid of all these foolish, ignorant, privileged, clueless individuals, the world might be a better place.

reply to post by antinwo101

Do you really know what is in a vaccine? (Reuters/Landov)But it's not just our food that the Bilderberg Group may have thought to use as population control. Conspiracy buff Alex Jones may not have the high profile that comes with repeatedly posing nude in Playboy magazine, like noted anti-vaccine activist Jenny McCarthy, but regardless, he believes that vaccines could be the vessels through which the Group might thin the human herd. Jones says the Bilderberg Group wants “a planetary dictatorship so they can carry out their forced depopulation agenda, and they want to do it through the medical system. And that’s why vaccines are so important. We know that many of these vaccines turn out to have serious adverse reactions and this is being done by design. They kill you slowly over time. That’s why they’re called 'soft kill.'”

More on Vaccines

AIDS
There is much information available that shows the AIDS virus most likely being a manmade Bio-weapon. Two groups were initially inoculated with a supposed Hepatitis vaccine, Gays in America and some African Blacks. The Gay Experiment That Started AIDS in America by Alan Cantwell, M.D “There is no doubt that AIDS erupted in the U.S. shortly after government-sponsored hepatitis B vaccine experiments (1978-1981) using gay men as guinea pigs. The epidemic was caused by the “introduction” of a new retrovirus (the human immunodeficiency virus, or HIV for short); and the introduction of a new herpes-8 virus, the virus that causes Kaposi’s sarcoma, widely known as the “gay cancer” of AIDS.

The taboo theory that AIDS is a man-made disease is largely based on research showing an intimate connection between government vaccine experiments and the outbreak of “the gay plague.” “After studying the scientific evidence for man-made AIDS for so long, it is difficult for me to imagine anyone who knows the "facts" surrounding the origin of HIV/AIDS who cannot see a possible connection between the gay experiments and the outbreak of the "gay plague." “There are millions of white people in Sub-Saharan Africa. If HIV had been present for decades (as scientists insist), why is AIDS primarily a black man's disease-and not also a white man's disease in Africa? In the U.S., why was AIDS first discovered in white gays, but not in black gays?

There is no evidence that AIDS in America came from Africa or anywhere else outside of the USA. There is no possible way a black heterosexual sexually-transmitted epidemic in Africa could have transformed itself initially into a white gay man's disease in America. That, in itself, is the "smoking gun." The introduction of HIV via the hepatitis B trials was a deliberate attempt to liquidate the gay community - and then blame homosexual men for spreading the disease to the "general population" because of their perverted and "high risk" lifestyle. Why did a new "gay disease" erupt as soon as homosexuals, the most hated people in America, presented themselves as guinea pigs to medical scientists? Another coincidence of nature caused by monkeys in the African jungle? Why are new retroviral diseases, never before seen in modern medicine? appearing so soon after retroviruses were "discovered"? (Google: The Special Cancer Virus Program of the 1970s, the birthplace of HIV and AIDS) Why did the AIDS "super virus" appear a decade after it was predicted by the biowarfare experts? (Google the Congressional testimony of biological warfare researcher "Dr. Donald MacArthur " in 1969.) Another coincidence?”

The public has been carefully taught that Blacks and Gays and African Green Monkeys are responsible for causing AIDS. These politically correct and scientifically correct "facts" are accepted by most people without question. How many more AIDS deaths are required before people speak out against this secret genocide- and the obvious connection of vaccine experiments and the "introduction" of lethal viruses into "select populations"?”

SWINE FLU
Is swine flu a new bio-weapon?
The danger might lay in the cure and not the infection. Many vaccinations are dangerous. First the method of administration is not natural. When you breathe in germs and viruses the mucous membranes automatically trigger the immune system and start to fight the germ. This is not done when injected into the blood stream. Also, there are heavy metals in some of the vaccines and other interesting ingredients: List of Components of Glaxo H1N1 Vaccine 7-19-9 (source: Rense.com) by Jane Burgermeister birdflu666.wordpress.com:80... characterised-by-regulators-eu-and-usas-biodefense-stockpile-drug/

Fluoride IS poison, it reduces cognitive function, inhibits the thyroid gland and bone growth.


FLUORIDE STUPIDITY & POPULATION CONTROL


Controversial fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).

Sodium fluoride, a hazardous-waste by-product from the manufacture of aluminum, is a common ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, anesthetics, hypnotics, psychiatric drugs, and military nerve gas. It's historically been quite expensive to properly dispose of, until some aluminum industries with an overabundance of the stuff sold the public on the terrifically insane but highly profitable idea of buying it at a 20,000% markup, injecting it into our water supplies, and then DRINKING it.

Yes, a 20,000% markup: Fluoride-- intended only for human consumption by people under 14 years of age--is injected into our drinking water supply at approx. 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink 1/2 of one percent of the total water supply, the rest literally goes down the drain as a free hazardous-waste disposal for the chemical industry, where we PAY them so that we can flush their expensive hazardous waste down our toilets. How many salesmen dream of such a deal? (Follow the money.)

Independent scientific evidence repeatedly showing up over the past 50 years reveals that fluoride allegedly shortens our life span, promotes cancer and various mental disturbances, accelerates osteoporosis and broken hips in old folks, and makes us stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one package. There are reports of aluminum in the brain possibly being a causative factor in Alzheimer's Disease, and evidence points towards fluoride's strong affinity for aluminum and also its ability to "trick" the blood-brain barrier by looking like the hydrogen ion, and thus allowing chemical access to brain tissue.

Scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on this mega-bucks PR ploy have consistently been given a very unscientific Black-PR treatment, and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never arrive in the press.

Follow the money to find the control.

You can read more HERE

reply to post by spikey


Ive seen the Zeitgeist videos. And they are good. I like them. I just dont believe we have that kind of time.

Ever worked in construction? Do you know anything about infrastructure? All those truly lovely ideas take resources to manifest. I firmly believe that we cannot create that type of society unless and until we deal with the immediate problem of our population. We are in a downward spiral, already. Its not off in the future somewhere, it is now. Its taking longer for those of us who were on top of the spiral to notice it, because we had so much, so cheaply, and so many distractions.

What lot of the dewy eyed idealists do not seem to realize is that hunger breeds violence. In his book "Collapse" Jared Diamond lays out a very good case for how overcrowding and hunger helped lead to the genocide in Rwanda. Its also been mentioned as a factor in the uprising in Egypt, as the price of food rises, people become more and more desperate.

Another thing those who are not absolute die hard fans of science and economics dont seem to realize is that we have hit a wall in food production growth. Now maybe some magic bullet will come out of nowhere and change that, but dont count on it.

Those who focus too narrowly, cant see the big picture. We, right now, are in the middle of a lot of converging factors that are conspiring to collapse our entire system. Which will lead to war. The move to India and China is a last ditch effort to keep the growth game going, but it will have an end. The demand for resources is going to rise much more quickly than people realize.

You know, I am reading a book right now on what happened in the housing market to bring the whole system down, and honestly? Its eerie how the same attitudes/type of thinking that led to that crash is paralleled in threads like this one. There were a few "pessimists" (who in fact were realists,) who looked at the big picture, and saw what was coming and they "shorted" what everyone else was doing. If there were somewhere I could "short" civilization, I would. IF we do nothing to reduce our numbers, we ARE going to have a catastrophic crash in our lifetime. I suppose a miracle could happen, which is what a lot of people are banking on, but I dont build my strategies so that they are based on, "and then a miracle occurred."

There is a combination of wishful thinking, greed, idealism, lack of broad understanding, (people have gotten too narrow in their interests and education) and so even though people sense we need to do something, not many realize just how close we are to having it all come down on top of us. We are thisclose.

To all of you who say that at 7 billion we are not overpopulated---are you forgetting that about half of those 7 billion will be reproducing in just a few years?
Are you forgetting about having a great margin of safety in regard to food supplies?

And those who envision high rise condos to pack populations into…Are you forgetting that man is and Earth creature? Being in contact with the Earth is important both physically and psychologically?
Personally, I would become extremely depressed if I could not walk outside and touch the Earth elements.
I love rocks for instance. When I moved to Florida, I missed the rocks. So I went back to Wisconsin and brought some back with me. Its not the same thing as experiencing them in their natural setting.
Likewise, I love trees and have lots of them on my land. I do wish I had some big rocks out there.
===========================================
Councilof9, I know what you are saying. I have likely studied the same material that you have.
I later came to disagree with much of it. It really is the same indoctrination as is given by religious and political dogmas. Its just dressed up differently. The end result for all of them is the same. Likewise it would take a lot of writing to fully explain why.
I’m older than you are and therefore have had more time to gather information and to process and digest that information. You are going thru that “spiritual superiority phase”. That is evident in every line you write. Keep going, you will mature in due time. In the meantime cool it. You are coming across as an arrogant know-it-all spouting nonsense.

I doubt that the planet/Earth or its inhabitants are doing any “ascending”. That is as airy-fairy
As the “rapture”.. There will be change, but not necessarily for the better as we think of “better”.

Originally posted by Nathan-D
Depopulating us and dumbing the masses down by putting nasty chemicals in our food and water is something I've suspected for a long time.

Read some history that really gets into the nuts and bolts of the "masses" in the old days. A lot of popular history deals with the top levels of society. The philosophers, kings, basically the smarter people. If you want to get over your belief that the masses are being dumbed down, read some histories, oh, say, of marriage and family from 1500 on or something.

Its not he chemicals. The masses have NEVER been that bright. And all we have done is teach a lot of people with low native intelligence how to read and write and had them memorize some facts. We are educated beyond our intelligence as a species. The vast majority of the very bright are out of their league in dealing with these complex messes we have made.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

What lot of the dewy eyed idealists do not seem to realize is that hunger breeds violence. In his book "Collapse" Jared Diamond lays out a very good case for how overcrowding and hunger helped lead to the genocide in Rwanda. Its also been mentioned as a factor in the uprising in Egypt, as the price of food rises, people become more and more desperate.

What you don't seem to realise is that we are being purposely placed in this position of reliance upon mass production by powers who control the companies, who at any time can just pull the plug and place us in the very position you fear..........like it or not this is their plan, their goal is to wrap up globalisation and usher in the new one world government. This is why we are seeing so many countries going belly up and having to be bailed out at the moment, you should watch this video
12 triggers from globalisation to new world government

Another thing those who are not absolute die hard fans of science and economics dont seem to realize is that we have hit a wall in food production growth. Now maybe some magic bullet will come out of nowhere and change that, but dont count on it.

And I suppose you read this science and economics in newspapers,magazines and watch it on TV??
I rest my case.

Those who focus too narrowly, cant see the big picture. We, right now, are in the middle of a lot of converging factors that are conspiring to collapse our entire system. Which will lead to war. The move to India and China is a last ditch effort to keep the growth game going, but it will have an end. The demand for resources is going to rise much more quickly than people realize.

My focus is so wide its almost 360 degrees. I am sorry but it is you and people like you who do not see the big picture, the system has been manufactured so that it will collapse, this is the plan.

You know, I am reading a book right now on what happened in the housing market to bring the whole system down, and honestly? Its eerie how the same attitudes/type of thinking that led to that crash is paralleled in threads like this one. There were a few "pessimists" (who in fact were realists,) who looked at the big picture, and saw what was coming and they "shorted" what everyone else was doing. If there were somewhere I could "short" civilization, I would. IF we do nothing to reduce our numbers, we ARE going to have a catastrophic crash in our lifetime. I suppose a miracle could happen, which is what a lot of people are banking on, but I dont build my strategies so that they are based on, "and then a miracle occurred."

Did the book also tell you that at the hight of the housing collapse 70% of the bailout funds were transferred to the Bank of Saudi??..........I actually thought it was supposed to bail out US banks........oh sorry the NWO owns all those banks!!

There is a combination of wishful thinking, greed, idealism, lack of broad understanding, (people have gotten too narrow in their interests and education) and so even though people sense we need to do something, not many realize just how close we are to having it all come down on top of us. We are this close.

This is very true.........maybe its time for you to find new media outlets and re-educate yourself then.

reply to post by OhZone

Councilof9, I know what you are saying. I have likely studied the same material that you have. I later came to disagree with much of it. It really is the same indoctrination as is given by religious and political dogmas. Its just dressed up differently. The end result for all of them is the same. Likewise it would take a lot of writing to fully explain why. I’m older than you are and therefore have had more time to gather information and to process and digest that information. You are going thru that “spiritual superiority phase”. That is evident in every line you write. Keep going, you will mature in due time. In the meantime cool it. You are coming across as an arrogant know-it-all spouting nonsense. I doubt that the planet/Earth or its inhabitants are doing any “ascending”. That is as airy-fairy As the “rapture”.. There will be change, but not necessarily for the better as we think of “better”.

Hi OhZone
Thanks for your concern. With respect you don't even know how old I am, for the record I am 50.
I have been studying these areas for a very long time and I can assure you it is not arrogance and I am not going through a “spiritual superiority phase”.
But I can tell you that I have sifted though an incredible amount of data to get to my current views on things as I see them. I actually think I am just becoming more passionate about such subjects because of the arrogance that is rife throughout the population, and it always seems to be the people who read main stream media who have the hardest heads, they just cant seem to understand even when the facts are in front of them. After a while this does become incredibly frustrating and this frustration may be evident in my posts.

I don't believe in the rapture, and I also don't believe in an instantaneous ascension, what I do believe is that at the end of next year we will all find out some home truths about our existence.
The material that I have studied in no way has any affiliation with any religion or with any form of main stream spirituality. Some of it is based on the works of Dewey Larson, who I would class as a quantum astrophysicist and cosmologist and the rest is from what I feel offers the best facts to the conundrum of life, I am now confident within reason, I have as close an idea as I could possibly have to this question.

Although this may become more refined as I continue to research I don't feel it will stray much from the basic principles. I am sorry if my posts are coming across with a hint of arrogance, this is not my intention at all, I may need to slow down a bit and re read my posts. There is just so much information streaming through my head, condensing it to a readable level must be proving a little more difficult than I assume.

Cheers

Originally posted by CouncilOfNine


And I suppose you read this science and economics in newspapers,magazines and watch it on TV??
I rest my case.

Science journals are often published as magazines, but its not in newspapers and on TV. We have hit a wall in our gains in food production for the first time since the "Green Revolution" began. Really.

Originally posted by CouncilOfNine
My focus is so wide its almost 360 degrees. I am sorry but it is you and people like you who do not see the big picture, the system has been manufactured so that it will collapse, this is the plan.

If you say so. As I see it, the "elite" are playing an ancient game that seemed to work for thousands of years. Many of them while brighter than the average booger harvester, are not really top shelf minds. They are no Plato. I say "seemed" to work, because the system never did work. It has always required more room to grow, and people have been having to migrate around the globe for ever, basically, to make the "more people" strategy work. And for a long time, up til the Americas were fully populated, the utter lunacy of the system escaped most people.

Then our culture hit a point at which our ability to exploit fossil fuels allowed increases in efficiency which again have allowed us to ignore the basic problem, the very simple and basic fallacy upon which "their" system and yours, I might add, is based. That you cannot have infinite growth in a closed system indefinitely.

Now some technophiles seem to think some miracle will come along and allow increased efficiency to allow us to continue to ignore the fundamental flaw in the logic of the game "more." And some technophiles think we will develop interstellar travel and find a new Earth like planet and thus escape the simple FACT that the Earth is a closed system. So there are two wishful thinking ways people enamored with technology are hoping to cheat the truth, which is, that infinite growth is impossible in a closed system. Period.

Originally posted by CouncilOfNine
Did the book also tell you that at the hight of the housing collapse 70% of the bailout funds were transferred to the Bank of Saudi??..........I actually thought it was supposed to bail out US banks........oh sorry the NWO owns all those banks!!

How money was scammed out of the bailouts has nothing to do with why there needed to BE bailouts in the first place. People who argue as you do tend to think there are some evil geniuses making markets collapse, and its a partial truth. But the people who shorted the game and helped the market collapse did not orchestrate the situation which gave them the opportunity to benefit from the collapse of the system. Stupidity and greed orchestrated that collapse. The evil geniuses might be evil, but they are hardly geniuses. Our leaders in business and in government tend to be cunning, and wily, and ruthless, but on the whole, they really arent stunningly brilliant.

Which is why I find it highly amusing that the "stop the depopulation" crowd never seems to notice that they are on the same side of that argument as the "elites" are. They want growth. Cheap labor. Supply and demand and all that. They are not dumbing us down, mostly because they dont need to. We arent that bright to begin with. And they sure as hell arent trying to lower the population. They will happily slaughter people in a war to get more resources, but that has nothing to do with depopulating in general. That is just removing obstacles to "their" resources.

The "elite" is playing a game humanity has been playing for thousands of years. They have no real understanding that the game is not sustainable. They do not create science and technology, they steal or commission it from the people who do. Its all voodoo to them, and they are likely just as sure as you are that some miracle is going to come along and save us from the corner we are backing ourselves into now that there is no spare empty continent full of land and resources for us to harvest and inhabit.

And, the odds are heavily against them that that will be the case.

reply to post by OhZone

I will post below an account of creation that I feel contributes to what I believe happened. I don't believe in airy fairy at all, and I like to dissect things that interest me then look for evidence bringing me to an unbiased view of the data I am reviewing.


The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.Infinity became aware. This was the next step

Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

The next step is still at this space/time nexus in your illusion achieving its progression as you may see it in your illusion. The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible. The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomised creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularise their own local, shall we say, rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes. The physical, universes were not yet born.

The energies moved in increasingly intelligent patterns until the individualisation of various energies emanating from the creative principle of intelligent infinity became such as to be co-Creators. Thus the so-called physical matter began. The concept of light is instrumental in grasping this great leap of thought as this vibrational distortion of infinity is the building block of that which is known as matter, the light being intelligent and full of energy, thus being the first distortion of intelligent infinity which was called by the creative principle.

This light of love as a pure vibration was made to have in its occurrences of being certain characteristics, among them the infinite whole paradoxically described by the straight line, as you would call it. This paradox is responsible for the shape of the various physical illusion entities you call solar systems, galaxies, and planets of revolving and tending towards the lenticular.The steps, are simultaneous and infinite.

The galaxy and all other things of material of which you are aware are products of individualised portions of intelligent infinity. As each exploration began, it, in turn, found its focus and became co-Creator. Using intelligent infinity each portion created an universe and allowing the rhythms of free choice to flow, playing with the infinite spectrum of possibilities, each individualised portion channelled the love/light into what you might call intelligent energy, thus creating the so-called Natural Laws of any particular universe.

Each universe, in turn, individualised to a focus becoming, in turn, co-Creator and allowing further diversity, thus creating further intelligent energies regularising or causing Natural Laws to appear in the vibrational patterns of what you would call a solar system. Thus, each solar system has its own, shall we say, local coordinate system of illusory Natural Laws. It shall be understood that any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity. Thus all begins and ends in mystery.

The process is from the larger, in your illusion, to the smaller. Thus the co-Creator, individualising the galaxy, created energy patterns which then focused in multitudinous focuses of further conscious awareness of intelligent infinity. Thus, the solar system of which you experience inhabitation is of its own patterns, rhythms, and so-called natural laws which are unique to itself. However, the progression is from the galaxy spiralling energy to the solar spiralling energy, to the planetary spiralling energy, to the experiential circumstances of spiralling energy which begin the first density of awareness of consciousness of planetary entities.

Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. In a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. Slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. Thus the Logos moves. Light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-Creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. This begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. This is the first density.

The spiralling energy, which is the characteristic of what you call “light,” moves in a straight line spiral thus giving spirals an inevitable vector upwards to a more comprehensive beingness with regards to intelligent infinity. Thus, first dimensional beingness strives towards the second-density lessons of a type of awareness which includes growth rather than dissolution or random change.

Picture, if you will, the difference between first-vibrational mineral or water life and the lower second-density beings which begin to move about within and upon its being. This movement is the characteristic of second density, the striving towards light and growth.
All of the octave's of your densities would be clearly visible were not the fourth through the seventh freely choosing not to be visible.

The second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

A book called The Universe Of Motion By Dewey Larson also has had a great influence on my way of thinking.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I have seen a lot of video interviews from people with a background in black ops, military, secret research facilities, illuminati etc etc who emphatically state what I have said is exactly what their plan is, would it really hurt you to read some of the stuff and visit a couple of the links I have put here, then through your own unbiased curiosity deduction and research (excluding main stream media) have some independent deep thought on these subjects?

I am not trying to push my beliefs on you here, everything I write is easily checkable as pure fact. This is what is so frustrating about debating these subjects, people just don't want to know the truth, they would rather stick there head in the sand and believe these people have their best interests at heart. I am sorry but these people want to kill you and 6 billion others just like you, and you will not realise until it is to late........ or the B.R.I.C.S actually stop them.
They only want 1 billion people as there slaves the rest they class as "useless eaters".

reply to post by CouncilOfNine


I actually have seen many videos about the types of things you are discussing. Its not that I have no exposure to it, its that I have exposure to a lot of other stuff too, and using independent thought, reasoning, experience, etc., I do not totally buy into those theories.

I do accept that there are people trying to create a one world government for their own nefarious purposes. I do not accept that all the outcomes that happen are intentional on their part, nor do I accept that they are all in cahoots. Its more like rival mafias fighting for control of the worlds resources than it is one united group of brilliant and evil people with one agenda.

And no matter how you slice it, the more humans there are, the more money they can siphon upwards. Which is what they want. Money is a convenient stand in for human energy. One hour of human effort yeilds x amount of dollars, pesos, whatever. They have no incentive to want less people. We are one of the resources they are harvesting.

Oh and just to add, I dont think it is humanly possible to read my posts and think I personally think our leaders have our best interests at heart. I will state it outright, they do not. They have THEIR best interests at heart, and it rarely means anything good for us.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Here is something you may want to read.

US MARINE DRILL SERGEANT BOASTS OF WHAT THEY WILL DO TO CIVILIANS UNDER MARTIAL LAW IN THE USA/MONTANA
I am still kinda reeling from what a US Marine admitted to me in a long conversation...a crack US Marine drill sergeant with 12 years of professional training and being a trainer in the Marines. He specialized in hardening them to win (ie-fire on women and children wherever appropriate, "show no mercy" etc.)

He CONFIRMED lots of things to me to me I already knew, and revealed lots of new things to me. MARINE CONFIRMS PRISONER BOXCARS PREPOSITIONED EVERYWHERE FOR MARTIAL LAW- HE ADMITTED (actually, BOASTED would be more appropriate) that there were INDEED PRISONER BOXCARS PREPOSITIONED EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT MONTANA where I interviewed him(and nationwide)...that the military has properly assessed the civilian resistance/militia threat under martial law, and hence had everything in place for a military takeover USING US MARINES HEAVILY.

Quote: "WHY do you THINK that they have the Marines in place in Billings, Montana, " he bragged. He explained that MARINES would be used most heavily in Montana(and NATIONWIDE) under martial law...and he was evidently quite proud of their role. He admitted they had been hardened to kill...and that killing women and children would be a part of their agenda wherever deemed necessary.
WHY? He said that under a state of war or martial law, it is a known fact that women can be used and even children to convey information to"the enemy." (OR to combat US forces.) He shared then how many men in his platoon stationed overseas had been killed or hurt because a Marine refused his orders, to fire on an eight year old child. The child was suspected to be a courier for the Mujahideen, transporting information about Marine logistics and whereabouts,to the Moslems they were fighting. And as a result of enemy information getting thru, many men in his platoon were injured or killed by resultant Moslem attack.

Quote: "The child may not have even known what he was transporting," the Marine told me, "But the damage to our men occurred regardless...all because one man refused his orders and failed to take out this threat..." We discussed the BOXCARS AND SHACKLES and MILITARY DETENTION CAMPS under MARTIAL LAW issue. A knowing smile broke out on his face as I described to him my research on future MARTIAL LAW and the role of PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES.

When I mentioned how my research on this subject brought me to the HIGHLINE (the railroad tracks that run parallel to HIGHWAY 2 in northern Montana) and northern Montana, he admitted... Quote: "The boxcars are NOT just up there...we have them spread out ALL OVER MONTANA...Billings...Bozeman..." He went on to name city after city in Montana. TERMINATION IN THE PRISONER BOXCARS, MARINE STYLE- "LIKE SHEEP LED TO SLAUGHTER"

We discussed what would happen ONCE people were arrested under martial law and brought into these boxcars. MARINE style. Quote: He said, "In many cases they won't even waste a bullet on them. MANY WILL NEVER REACH THE CAMPS ALIVE. They have this thing we called a 'staple gun'..." I asked him to elaborate. "This 'gun' shoots out a long metal rod that hits another piece of metal...they just hold that to someone's head like a gun and...." He was in fact describing a STUN GUN, the same kind used to stun cattle and sheep in slaughterhouses prior to processing. I understood. With the same effect that a BULLET THRU THE HEAD, favored by military for dispatching people under such circumstances, would have. Only THIS way, the American people will become LIKE SHEEP LED TO SLAUGHTER...literally. and like dumb sheep led to slaughter, civilians arrested under martial law are not even considered worth the cost of a bullet...

Quote: RED-FLAG/BLACK FLAG- MARINE STANDARDS FOR "WHO SHALL LIVE, WHO SHALL DIE" We discussed various LISTS or status of people, once arrested, under MARTIAL LAW would have. You know, like FEMA RED-BLUE lists, etc. He responded by admitting that FEMA WAS ONLY A FRONT FOR SUCH OPERATIONS, and that IN FACT IT WOULD BE THE US MILITARY (with foreign troop assistance, UN/NATO/Pfp etc.,) OPERATING THE BOXCARS AND DEATHCAMPS. He said that the Marines had their RED FLAGGED people and BLACK FLAGGED people. When people come up RED FLAG on their computerized list, it is a person that will be arrested and taken to military camps, but may be "salvageable" (or can be rehabilitated, re-educated, etc.) But when people come up BLACK FLAGGED, they will be arrested and PUT TO DEATH. NO questions asked.

Quote: "When taking captives under MARTIAL LAW, we might even use a black flagged person who is going to die anyhow, and MAKE THEM AN EXAMPLE TO THE OTHER PEOPLE WE ARREST TO NOT MESS WITH US AND COOPERATE...by executing that person in front of the others...a form of CONTROL THRU FEAR." WHY THE US MILITARY IN IRAQ-A Marine Explains I discussed my loathing for the reports we were now receiving from IRAQ, about even young girls and teens being arrested indiscriminately, tortured and sodomized, raped, etc.

Quote: He replied, "You have to understand the logistics of WAR and what is happening there. Since the US soldiers are surrounded with people (Iraqis) and the enemy in many cases is THE UNKNOWN, that have to have ways to flush them out. By randomly selecting civilians to interrogate through torture and other means, and then releasing them, they are hoping that when that person who has been roughed up returns to their home or friends, it will provoke them (enemy combatants) into such anger and retaliation that they are FLUSHED OUT INTO THE OPEN so we can deal with them and know who the enemy really is."
He also admitted it creates FEAR in the people towards the occupying army, so that they will hesitate to rebel. In light of coming MARTIAL LAW, which he admitted WOULD COME DOWN IN AMERICA, I discussed my theory that THE US MILITARY THAT IS BEING HARDENED THROUGH SUCH PRACTICES IN IRAQ TODAY, will be the ones brought home to PERFORM THE SAME TASKS AGAINST THE US CIVILIANS IN THE FUTURE UNDER MARTIAL LAW. MARINE MENTALITY-FIRING UPON WOMEN AND CHILDREN AT COMMAND- He did not deny this. And when I mentioned my concern over whether or not they could get our own US troops to fire upon America citizens, even women and children, he explained to me the MARINE MENTALITY.

Quote: "These Marines have been hardened to KILL UPON COMMAND. They have been taught to NOT QUESTION THE ORDERS OF THEIR SUPERIORS OR COMMANDING OFFICER. THEY WILL KILL WHOEVER AND WHENEVER THEY ARE COMMANDED TO. " He let me know that concepts of MERCY or COMPASSION are diametrically opposed to WAR and military mentality.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I do accept that there are people trying to create a one world government for their own nefarious purposes. I do not accept that all the outcomes that happen are intentional on their part, nor do I accept that they are all in cahoots. Its more like rival mafias fighting for control of the worlds resources than it is one united group of brilliant and evil people with one agenda.

You should read something about these people and the depth of the corruption, it is quite long, that's why I have linked to it, and in three parts, but it is instrumental in understanding how these people think.
Please check it out, it will shock you.

The Most Powerfull Man In The World

Here's a little on the Bush's involvement in all this.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Read some history that really gets into the nuts and bolts of the "masses" in the old days. A lot of popular history deals with the top levels of society. The philosophers, kings, basically the smarter people. If you want to get over your belief that the masses are being dumbed down, read some histories, oh, say, of marriage and family from 1500 on or something.

It's not the chemicals. The masses have never been that bright. And all we have done is teach a lot of people with low native intelligence how to read and write and had them memorize some facts. We are educated beyond our intelligence as a species. The vast majority of the very bright are out of their league in dealing with these complex messes we have made.

I agree with some of what you say, but I have no idea why you think I want to "get over" my belief that the masses are being dumbed down. I do still think that we are being dumbed-down chemically by the elite with malice aforethought. The billions of ordinary folk who make up world society are paying for the elite's extravagance and unscrupulousness and they are paying for it with their health by consuming biologically insalubrious chemicals like aspartame and fluoride without knowing the long-term potentially devastating side-effects on their physical state that comes with consuming such chemicals. Why do I need to "get over" that way of thinking?

You also, oxymoronically, say we are "educated beyond our intelligence". How can a person be educated beyond their intelligence? Strikes me as rather odd. Anyway, I think the elite are keeping people dumbed down, not just by chemicals, but through other means, by the woefully inadequate, indoctrinatory, standardised education-system that discourages creative thought. As John Rockefeller once wrote, "I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers". I think the purpose of the intending tyrants is to supplant our experience of natural reality with an all-encompassing illusion of their own construction, and I believe they will stoop to any level necessary to achieve their goals, even if it means chemically dumbing us down.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
So, basically the OP is saying that in theory, if we completely dismantle the existing system and re-build a new one, based on technology we really havent mastered, we can sustain ourselves?

Brilliant! We can live(,) in theory!

edit on 21-4-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)

Well yes and no really.

Yes, i'm saying create a new system of living, and phase it in over a period of time, and adjustment/transition phase.

But, no i'm not saying to use technology we haven't mastered yet.

Solar energy harvesting methods are evolving and advancing that's true, but then so are all forms of our technology.
They are continually changing, being upgraded or replaced with more efficient ways and means, yet we would consider that we have mastered them, it's just that we are continually refining and perfecting, with new discoveries and methods thrown into the mix.

We understand and have mastered Solar technology, we've been using the principle of Solar electricity generation for decades..with new advances coming all the time, efficiency will only go up.

The principle of concentrating the sun with concave reflective mirrors, and focussing the concentrated energy (hundreds - thousands of times ) at either a small PV solar panel (a few inches in size), or a heat transfer unit carrying water is well understood too...we all used to play with magnifying glasses to burn holes in blades of grass or leaves as kids didn't we...(i did), same idea with these concentrator power plants.

I mentioned the technologies that we haven't yet 'mastered' (cold fusion) as a kind of 'bonus', a cherry on the top of the huge energy cake we have in front of us..and isn't really required, as Solar can easily take care of all of our energy requirements...if we really wanted it to.

Cheers.

reply to post by spikey


There are working zero point energy modules throughout the world, I am told that one of these modules can sit in the bottom of a cupboard, and supply a house with power forever for free.

Originally posted by ChristianMentat
reply to post by spikey

 

Live in Asia for three years, the CHinese kind; And then reconsider your proposition or at least title of supposed worth.

Good luck. I for a Man am opposed to your propostion, at least.

Thanks for posting ChristianMentat, appreciate it.

China has overpopulation? Not a bit of it.

China *does* has terrible and suffocating overpopulation *density*...the two things are very different indeed. Why do we have massive population *densities*?

Money. (our system)

We all crowd into cities, rubbing shoulders with millions of other people who'd probably rather be anywhere else, but are crammed in like sardines in a tin.

This is of course, where the 'employment' is. Mostly it's in the cities, in the urban sprawl and not in 90% of the rest of the land. Asia, Africa..everywhere would be relatively *empty* if we didn't cram ourselves into cities in order to 'follow the money' and have access to resources.

The changes that are required, while relatively simple in concept, will have to be extensive and wide ranging and will take time to plan, organise and implement..but while change is always a bit frightening, even change that will bring great benefits to all of us is intimidating, but ultimately something has to be done, so change is looming whatever we choose to do or not.

I personally believe a positive change for the good of all humanity and our planet, where our civilisation is driven by a desire to elevate our species and not just ourselves or our nations, is preferable over a negative one that will see continued suffering and suppression of whole peoples, damage to our living environment and increasingly oppressive forms of governance.

The choice is really between a 'brave new world' and a 'new world order'.

In the spirit of this thread, the 'Brave new world' is an environment where the person is sovereign and valued, encouraged and supported and not viewed as a commodity or with a view to 'earning potential', but instead with a view to attaining all that they can be.

The world has not seen art...the world has not heard music...the world has not considered philosophy, or science or existential matters...but it will under the preferred new system, and the world will rejoice in the new found beauty of our existence.

The other choice is Oppression, misery, want and death.

You tell me, which necessary and inevitable type of change would you want for humanity?

Cheers.