On the "King of all the World (Hiram Abiff);" the Masonic Messiah & other Masonic Conspiracies.

Originally posted by Mason mike

My question deals with Jesters. A group that until this site, I has never heard of. Lucifer parades himself as an intellectual who doesn't lie, but the few simple checks to his claims show him to be either real stupid, or an outright liar. Or quite possibly a combination of both. After all, the Jesters were the ones being prosecuted for the prostitution. So far, all he has been able to prove about the Shriners is they like to party. We already knew that. Party and give money and time to help kids.

The major problem with the public is "guilt by association". Since the Jesters are affiliated with the Shrine, the actions of those men give all Shriners a bad name, not to even mention all the innocent Jesters.

As a Shriner myself, I realize that 99% of the people in the Order are upright and moral people. The problem is that the other 1% get a lot of media attention, so it's no wonder that the public's general perception of Shrinedom is one of drunken frat boys.

Of course, the Jester case crossed even that line. It was more than just a rowdy get-together, and criminal acts have been institutionalized in some Jester courts. Will the Imperial Council address this? I don't know, but somebody in leadership needs to take some sort of stand. Before anyone is a Jester or a Shriner, he is a Mason, and is expected to conduct himself as such.

Hiram = Hermes = John the Baptist = Anubis = Archangel Gabriel.
Lucifer = Jesus = Horus = Archangel Michael

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


That is very interesting. Seriously, I am very interested, but can you connect the dots for me?

reply to post by getreadyalready


I can and I will!
I'll post again when I get home from work

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Before anyone is a Jester or a Shriner, he is a Mason, and is expected to conduct himself as such.

That is the same things I have heard. And I have no problem admitting that not every mason/shriner/jester is a saint, But having never even heard of the jesters, I do find it hard to believe that their numbers are in the upper 30 percent of all US masonry as was asserted. Much like the Tall cedars, another group I had never heard of until reading this forum.

I'v stated before i'm in the middle of both arguing parties, i believe in Jesus Christ as lord and saviour which would put my at odds with one party and i'm anti secret society which would put me at odds with the other but even tho i think there is corruption in masonry mostly stemming from the European branchs were they hold more political clout and influence i can't agree hundred percent with a communist either, that being said i find some of the masons on here very friendly and even tho i'm not sure they fully understand what they pledged too they seem to think they do, so be it, but as people most of them on here are cool and even tho i'm supposed to dislike all masons i don't, and even tho i'm a believer in Christ and should dislike Lucifer777 on his principles alone i don't i think he's pretty cool even tho we disagree on so many things, but truth be told who says you can't learn wisdom from a satanist or a mason because you can, God uses all people for a purpose even you guys, that being said i think both sides have a point and find myself agreeing with points made on both sides....

As far as Hiram Abiff i saw a show on tv were they showed a mason being indoctrinated into the first degree and the theme was a make believe tale of Abiff and the mason had to go through a story line until he reached the final actor/mason and when the play was over he was a mason, i know the masons hold the supposed story of Hiram Abiff in high regard but i don't think he's the consensus messiah i would say they hold Albert Pike in higher regard and even heard the name Jahbulon as some members God dunno....

Here's a video telling the story of Jahbulon take it for what it's worth....

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by King Seesar

i know the masons hold the supposed story of Hiram Abiff in high regard but i don't think he's the consensus messiah i would say they hold Albert Pike in higher regard and even heard the name Jahbulon as some members God dunno....

Other Masons are far more educated on the history than I am, but I can say with certainty that NOBODY holds Albert Pike in a higher regard than Hiram Abiff, or any other Mason for that matter. Hiram Abiff does play a significant role in the allegories of Masonry, but we do not "worship" anyone. We try to emulate people that stand for the highest virtues and morality, but that does not equal "worship."

Thank you for the open mind by the way, and I agree with you. I like Lucifer's posts, because sometimes they are way off the mark, but sometimes they are pretty correct, and they always open my eyes to different views or different works I had not heard of.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I guess i shouldn't have said masons hold Pike higher then Abiff but he's often quoted more mainly because of his book morals and dogma guess that's why i got that idea.


But yea thanks for understanding i try to keep a open mind on most topics, like i said i'm a believer in Christ but that dosen't mean i can't find wisdom in Buddhism or Hinduism, i can, i just don't take it as the gospel same thing just because someone is a mason or a satanist dosen't mean they don't have wisdom to offer and just for the record i'm far far from perfect, so don't take me telling you my faith in Christ the wrong way like me getting on a pedestal or something because trust me and let me say again trust me i'm not....

reply to post by King Seesar


You do realize that most Masons are also Christians right? Or at least in the US they are. It is different in Israel or the Mideast of course, because Masonry is accepting of all religions, so it kind of mirrors the dominate religion in any geographic area.

I'm just trying to clarify, since you lumped them together with satanists a couple of times.

As for me personally, I believe in Christ, believe he existed, and believe he teaches important concepts, but I don't believe he is infallible, or that he is the only way to reach God, so I can't consider myself a Christian. I do go to a Baptist Church though!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I could debate the theory that the masons really worship Satan even tho they think it's God but that has been debated to death so i wont go there, but in the last few posts i wrote i wasen't saying masons were satanist i was talking about Lucifer777 being a admited satanist but i kept it separate from the masons side that's why i said i was in the middle agreeing with points from both the masons side and his side, my bad if you misunderstood....

reply to post by King Seesar


No problem.

Still, you say you could debate it, and people have debated it, but I don't see how?

"Masons" don't "worship" anything, but we are accepting of all religions. Therefore, maybe some Masons worship Satan, who knows. BUT, you could never say that someone like me "unknowingly" worships Satan? The truth is, I don't worship anything or anybody. I pray regularly, and my prayer is non-specific to any deity. Sometimes it is GAOTU, sometimes it is just God, sometime is is just, "if you're listening..."

I would guess that 90% of the people in my Masonic Lodge have been baptized, attend church regularly, read the Bible, and are confessed Christians. Since we don't do or say anything in a Lodge to the contrary, or even on the subject of religion, how could anybody debate that the Lodge was Satanic? It is an honest question, because I see that accusation regularly, but it makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by King Seesar
As far as Hiram Abiff i saw a show on tv were they showed a mason being indoctrinated into the first degree and the theme was a make believe tale of Abiff and the mason had to go through a story line until he reached the final actor/mason and when the play was over he was a mason, i know the masons hold the supposed story of Hiram Abiff in high regard but i don't think he's the consensus messiah i would say they hold Albert Pike in higher regard and even heard the name Jahbulon as some members God dunno....

Hiram Abiff is a character in an allegorical play (degree). The story is summarized fairly well in the wikipedia article. He's not a messianic figure at all, though is character is exemplar. Some people misrepresent part of the play as a resurrection, and thus try to say Hiram is a replacement for Christ, but that's not an accurate interpretation.

Pike was a learned man who rewrote the Scottish Rite degrees. His work is meaningless to most Masons outside of the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction. (Masons who also join the Scottish Rite in about 35 of the states in the US.) Morals & Dogma is some of his writing about his interpretation of the lessons of the degrees. He wasn't a saint, but he was a prolific writer and fairly well educated in history, religion and philosophy, so taken with a grain of salt, his texts can be insightful.

Jahbulon is just a word, not a god. Masonry requires belief in God the creator. There's only one of Him, regardless of what He is called. (I personally have a disconnect with anyone who can believe in more than one omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being. Among Pike's philosophies is that all is God's work and God's plan... Pike didn't believe in a devil, because it is only through the hardships of life that man can truly appreciate the gifts of God and the beauty of his design.)

reply to post by getreadyalready


Well and i hate to bring it up because it's been done to death but here it gos, the theory is that there are masons that are of much higher degrees then you are aware of and at the top of the food chain they really worship satan and since you belong to the same organization your essentially guilty by association, now i'm not saying i agree with this hundred percent i'm just telling you what that side thinks....


What i think is that there are a group of Masons (mostly in Europe) that are in bed with TPTB and yes they assign them selfs higher rankings then what is officially considered the highest rank of masonry and while i don't think there legit rankings they assign them selfs this anyways so in a sense it's B.S but it's why people think there's higher degrees then there are, but it's a small portion compared to the vast majority but sure i'd bet there's rouge elements in masonry, people who joined for reasons of power my two cents anyway....

Originally posted by King Seesar
But yea thanks for understanding i try to keep a open mind on most topics, like i said i'm a believer in Christ but that dosen't mean i can't find wisdom in Buddhism or Hinduism, i can, i just don't take it as the gospel

We do not undervalue the importance of any Truth. We utter no word that can be deemed irreverent by any one of any faith. We do not tell the Moslem that it is only important for him to believe that there is but one God, and wholly unessential whether Mahomet was His prophet. We do not tell the Hebrew that the Messiah whom he expects was born in Bethlehem nearly two thousand years ago; and that he is a heretic because he will not so believe. And as little do we tell the sincere Christian that Jesus of Nazareth was but a man like us, or His history but the unreal revival of an older legend. To do either is beyond our jurisdiction. Masonry, of no one age, belongs to all time; of no one religion, it finds its great truths in all.

To every Mason, there is a GOD; ONE, Supreme, Infinite in Goodness, Wisdom, Foresight, Justice, and Benevolence; Creator, Disposer, and Preserver of all things. How, or by what intermediates He creates and acts, and in what way He unfolds and manifests Himself, Masonry leaves to creeds and Religions to inquire.

To every Mason, the soul of man is immortal. Whether it emanates from and will return to God, and what its continued mode of existence hereafter, each judges for himself. Masonry was not made to settle that.

To every Mason, WISDOM or INTELLIGENCE, FORCE or STRENGTH, and HARMONY, or FITNESS and BEAUTY, are the Trinity of the attributes of God. With the subtleties of Philosophy concerning them Masonry does not meddle, nor decide as to the reality of the supposed Existences which are their Personifications: nor whether the Christian Trinity be such a personification, or a Reality of the gravest import and significance.

To every Mason, the Infinite Justice and Benevolence of God give ample assurance that Evil will ultimately be dethroned, and the Good, the True, and the Beautiful reign triumphant and eternal. It teaches, as it feels and knows, that Evil, and Pain, and Sorrow exist as part of a wise and beneficent plan, all the parts of which work together under God's eye to a result which shall be perfection. Whether the existence of evil is rightly explained in this creed or in that, by Typhon the Great Serpent, by Ahriman and his Armies of Wicked Spirits, by the Giants and Titans that war against Heaven, by the two co-existent Principles of Good and Evil, by Satan's temptation and the fall of Man, by Lok and the Serpent Fenris, it is beyond the domain of Masonry to decide, nor does it need to inquire. Nor is it within its Province to determine how the ultimate triumph of Light and Truth and Good, over Darkness and Error and Evil, is to be achieved; nor whether the Redeemer, looked and longed for by all nations, hath appeared in Judea, or is yet to come.

It reverences all the great reformers. It sees in Moses, the Lawgiver of the Jews, in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in the Arabian Iconoclast, Great Teachers of Morality, and Eminent Reformers, if no more: and allows every brother of the Order to assign to each such higher and even Divine Character as his Creed and Truth require.

Thus Masonry disbelieves no truth, and teaches unbelief in no creed, except so far as such creed may lower its lofty estimate of the Deity, degrade Him to the level of the passions of humanity, deny the high destiny of man, impugn the goodness and benevolence of the Supreme God, strike at those great columns of Masonry, Faith, Hope, and Charity, or inculcate immorality, and disregard of the active duties of the Order.

Masonry is a worship; but one in which all civilized men can unite; for it does not undertake to explain or dogmatically to settle those great mysteries, that are above the feeble comprehension of our human intellect. It trusts in God, and HOPES; it BELIEVES, like a child, and is humble. It draws no sword to compel others to adopt its belief, or to be happy with its hopes. And it WAITS with patience to understand the mysteries of Nature and Nature's God hereafter.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. XXVI, pp. 524-526

reply to post by JoshNorton


Yea i can see why people would misunderstand the meaning of Hiram Abiff when it comes to masonry and i can see why people would be misinformed thinking he could be the masons replacement for Christ both were in the Bible ect ect...


Yea i'v done research into Albert Pike but i thought most Masons held him in higher esteem then you seem too maybe your the minority in that line of thinking i dunno just guessing, like i said his book Morals and Dogma seems to me to be really big in the masonic movement, maybe not here because people are more in the know of certin things, i would assume most masons on here are better educated on world events how there perceived and things of that nature and would draw different conclusions then the status quo....

reply to post by King Seesar


Hypothetically, if there were a sub-group of University Professors and/or students. They met in secret, outside the normal confines of the University. None of the other 50,000 students and faculty knew about them, but they slowly built up enough influence in the University to influence policies, but they continually did it in secret, without the approval of the general population, authority, or endorsement of the University itself.

Would that small group of criminals define the whole group of University students and faculty? Or would it just be an illegal, non-recognized group of criminals that would be stopped as soon as they were discovered?

If what you say is correct about some secret group of elite Masons, it still does not redefine the whole of Masonry. It would just be a small group, forced into secrecy, because the rest of the organization would NOT approve of their actions.

The organization is defined by the whole, or the majority, not by the few outsiders, forced into secrecy for their own agenda.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Of course what you say is true but the fact that it uses masonry as its hide out so to speak affects the whole group if they manipulate things the right way, sort of like this scenario, a collage athlete takes money from a agent with out anybody from the school knowing but it ultimately comes out that he took this money...what happens, the school is punished by taking away scholarships from potential recruits and sanctions are levied againts the school...now is that fair??? in all honesty no, but it's how things are done....

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by illuminazislayer
Yes it is true; masonic cult has a pyramid shaped, authoritarian power structure,

So do the majority of businesses in the world. Someone self-employed is at the top of his own pyramid and has nobody above or below him. A small company at the very least has a boss and then people under him. Larger companies require more layers, until you get to big corporations which have one CEO, multiple vice presidents, even more division heads, etc... trickling down.

Such hierarchy exists because it's time proven as one of the best ways to get things done. If you have a corporation with 1000 employees, and they all have equal say and nobody takes instruction from anybody else, how would you manage to stay in business?

Yes sir masonic cult is a business comprising of millions of cultists, and the best way to handle so many cultists is to put them inside a pyramid structure which deceives them by secrecy and fraudulent means, while the masonic cult leaders at the top enjoy the show and earn bigger profits than any any of the cultists below them. It is a good model of business for masonic cult leaders, as all the cultists are serving the few at the top.

goldsilver.com...

The “entrepreneurs” who started the pyramid sit at the top, skimming the majority of the profit. “They’re the ones that are really getting wealthy off of this,” Mike says. “Everybody is paying them, and they never go out of the top of this pyramid. They are sitting at the top permanently.”

www.macquirelatory.com...

Freemason may take 10, 20, 30 or more years but is not based on time, the way initiates rise degrees is through invitation by members of a higher degree, in which this is the nature of all secret societies, the only way to get ahead is by appeasing those ahead of you. It is through this behind kissing pyramid structure that the few bloodline elite at the top control the many at the bottom.

Masonic cultists are stuck in a crooked pyramid structure, what a pitiable situation. Thanks for supporting my evidence.

"Really? I am below the YMCA? Some swim club kid has me beat out on the world domination scale....."

Not everyone gets the opportunity of molesting young girls and boys.....

www. runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk

Karl Barrie, of Halton YMCA sexually abused young girls for years

A 21-YEAR-OLD man who admitted raping a girl aged under 13 and sexually assaulting two young female children was jailed for eight years yesterday, at Warrington Crown Court.

Karl Barrie, of Halton YMCA, Halton Lodge Avenue, Runcorn, admitted 19 counts of indecently and sexually assaulting two girls aged under 13 and sexual activity with a 15-year-old girl.

www.kptv.com...

Man, 70, Sentenced In YMCA Sex Abuse Case

BEAVERTON, Ore. -- A 70-year-old man convicted of sexually abusing a boy at a Beaverton YMCA was sentenced to 25 years in prison Friday.

A Washington County judge also said Philip Riley must register as a sex offender. He was found guilty of three counts of first-degree sex abuse and one count of sodomy earlier this month.

www.boston.com...

Former Melrose YMCA employee James Conner will spend up to 30 years in prison after years of manipulating and sexually assaulting young girls under his care, according to the terms of an agreement reached between Conner and the Middlesex District Attorney's office on Monday.

Conner, 52, of North Reading, pleaded guilty to all 20 charges, including five counts of rape of a child with force and four counts of indecent assault on a child, during a conference at Middlesex Superior Court in Woburn.

"White masonry - YMCA"

Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Above: Shriner Masons.

Those evil, evil clowns. traveling from town to town, putting on parades and making children laugh. What a horrid way to spend your life. Living it to make a child smile.

Lucifer, this being a free speech message board, you can continue to lie as you have,

Well I consider this to be a false allegation. I have not "lied" about anything here, and I consider myself to be scrupulously honest in terms of my writings; if you can establish anything which I have stated to be false, I will happily retract such statements; however accusations of alleged deception without argument and evidence are impossible to respond to.

... I feel sorry for you that you have such an empty spot in your heart. I wonder what your father thinks of your rants here?

Generally when it comes to the numerous patently false allegations made against the Masons (such as that they are shape shifting reptiles, baby eaters and Satanists, etc.), I tend to be defend them, however in "describing" Masonry as a non Mason, I find it impossible to be uncritical of them. In the academic filed of "the study of religion" if a writer were to attempt to describe "any" religion uncritically and without considering the positions taken by critics of the religion, then the writer would be accused of lacking in objectivity. We do not "study" Scientology, for example, by merely referring to the propaganda of Scientologists themselves, and similarly if I was to attempt to "describe" Masonry by simply referring to the propaganda of Masonic cultists themselves, I could be accused of lacking in objectivity.

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

Frankly it is very common for cultists to be unable to utilise critical thinking when it comes to their own religious cult, and I find the general attitude of denialism by the Masonic gang members here to be no different to that of the Internet propagandists of Scientology or indeed of any other cult; such denialism is entirely commonplace.

With regards to my father, he was and is a perfectly decent individual for his generation, and I am on good terms with him; there is of course a generation gap, as he is very much a traditional and conservative person with very traditional values as one might expect for a person born in the 1920's. He is one of these "once a Freemason, always a Freemason" persons, but he is now retired and inactive in either the world of commerce and of Freemasonry. I generally no longer discuss subjects such as Masonry with him, however I am quite sure that he would share a similar contempt for American Masonry as I have, as he tends to take his religious cult rather seriously and has rather old fashioned moral values.

One of my relatives, whom my father grew up with was the late James Maxton ( en.wikipedia.org... ) who is probably the most famous Scottish Communist in the history of Scottish Communism and Socialism and one of my uncles was a rather notorious Scottish clergyman who was essentially a radical Christian Communist. My family has always been radically divided ideologically between the political left and right, and this is quite common in Scotland, however this ideological division has little or nothing to do with personal animosity. In fact my father paid for my deposit to run as an independent Communist candidate in the 2001 general election; he really takes the anti-Communist / Communist ideological divide in our family with a sense of humour and often introduces me as his "Communist son" and proceeds to slag me off, but always with a smile on his face; it is just his sense of humour.

My father does not shape shift into a reptile, nor does he eat babies, nor is he a Satanist, nor does he sacrifice children, nor has he ever abused me, and further he is a member of the "Church of Scotland" and a lifelong Christian; he is merely suffering from the delusion that "God" is a Capitalist Devil and an anti-Communist; however this is a common delusion shared by many of his generation, and probably by the vast majority of American Christians (who are awaiting the return of Capitalist Jesus) and Freemasons. It is "I" who am guilty of being the Satanist and the evangelical anti-Christian in our family, not my father, and not the Freemasons, since Scottish Freemasonry (I refer to the Freemasons in Scotland) is essentially a sect of Captialist Christianity, though by "Christ" I do not of course refer to the religious schizophrenic, exorcist, fake healer, fake miracle worker, primitivistic Communist and general lunatic who is the "Jesus" described in the Gospels as the Masonic cultists appear to have a mortal living Christ / King / Messiah / cult leader.

Lucifer