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When does something become 'Unnatural?"

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posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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*mods please move this if it's in the wrong forum, thanks.
*

Hi guys, this is something I think about a bit and discuss with my friends sometimes, so I thought I'd bring it here.

Basically what the thread title states. At what point does something become unnatural? Personally, I don't like when people use that word unless it's for a supernatural/magical phenomenon.

For example, the following statement (in my eyes) is false: "Cars are unnatural"
Alright, so how are cars unnatural? We manufacture them. Like how bees make a hive. Our process is (oxymoronicly) simply more complex.

Perhaps when it's no long the human 'in control' but a machine, or a computer, for instance. Still doesn't work for me though, because everything we do is made from the natural earth (rocks, metals, plants, animals, fire, etc)




So, thoughts? Ideas?




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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cars are unnatural for the environment


I think it's that point when your really young and you scratch your head and say "this is what I have to do?"



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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Or when say "this acitvity is unnatural!"
Are the people doing it human? are they part of nature? Then its natural.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by Julio
 


nothing is unnatural,its humans arrogance thinking that were such the cats cum ragg that we think anything we do is super natural or higher or holier than though, think about it,what have we made that wasnt originally derived from nature, we just conditioned materials into other materials,similar to the process of making ice or diamonds



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Julio
 


I agree with you to a point, but the difference between us and bees is freewill. The bee has no choice but to make what is natural, where as we can choose to either follow the path the nature has laid out for us, or we can try our own thing and make cars and microwaves and video games and governments, and see how that works out for us.

I can't believe I'm about to make a Tolkein reference, but the situation reminds me of his cosmology... God laid out a plan for his Creation in song, and it was beautiful, and he created the Ainur (more or less gods) to help bring his plan into existence (or something like that, I haven't read The Silmarillion in a while). One of the Ainur (Melkor) thought "f#$% this, Imma do what I want," and made his own creations, which all ended up being grotesque versions of God's creation, which is sort of an interesting point that Tolkein makes about how everything Good is from God, and anything not from God simply can't be good, because God made all good things (and all things are Good!) so all Melkor could do was take what God created and twist it, into something ugly... C.S. Lewis talks about this too in The Screwtape Letters, where demons try and get humans to indulge in pleasures in ways God didn't intend for them to be experienced so that they will be as unfulfilling as possible.. all pleasures are, after all, a creation of God.. as much as the demons have tried, they haven't been able to make one themselves, ever. But I digress!

So anyway, that's how Evil started, and it caused a lot of trouble on Middle Earth ever since.

/endgeekrant

Did that make sense? (I know I'm not the best at explaining things in a solid and coherent manner)

What do you think?



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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I have this conversation with my friends all the time. It makes for some pretty interesting times.

A beaver is part of nature and builds a dam, its natural, a human is part of nature and builds a dam and its unnatural?

I take some valerian root straight out the ground and eat it, thats natural, I put the valerian root in a capsule and eat it.. thats natural? I go one step further and make it into valium and eat it. thats un natural?

Great post cause I think about it alot.

I do think there is a balance though, and although humans might be doing whats natural, the natural response of the universe and the planet is to balance itself out.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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My girlfriend and i do things that you won't even see on National Geographic Explorer among the animals of Africa so we're probably unnatural , but we're just fine with being unnatural . Have a laugh at labels and be unnatural and you'll enjoy life . I don't care if a car is natural or unnatural as what we do while driving is probably unnatural and likely illegal in most states .



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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I think something is unnatural when it doesn't commonly happen in nature.

If I suddenly started growing a horn, it technically wouldn't be unnatural, as it has certainly happened before and there are provisions for it to happen, yet it would also be quite unnatural as it isn't common



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Julio
 


Perhaps we should define what we mean by the word "natural". It does not mean organic, it refers to being in conformance with the laws of nature. What then are the laws of nature, newtonian physics perhaps. The laws that work on an atomic and larger scale are "natural laws". So unnatural things would therefore be things that must fail because they are not sustainable, the law eventually catches up with them, when it doesn't then it is unnatural or supernatural.

The way things work on a subatomic level is viewed by quantum physics and it on that level things are supernatural and go beyond the natural laws. I particularly like the "spooky effect". There was a religious group of people known as the Shakers (made good chairs by the way) and they did not believe people should have children, they died off. Their rule was unnatural and unsustainable, you don't meet many shakers anymore.

Thats my shot at it.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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If you take all the bees of the planet what would happen? Inturn if you took all the cars off the planet what would happen? I know what I'd like to see go first.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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First define natural, then maybe it would reduce to confusion, then maybe the question of OP could be answered, although I doubt.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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A car is not a natural thing. If it was we would not be building them, they would of already been here. Take the al off natural and add an E.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by Redevilfan09
A car is not a natural thing. If it was we would not be building them, they would of already been here. Take the al off natural and add an E.


If it wasn't natural then we wouldn't be able to create it.

As simple as that really.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by CaptainTrips
 


Maybe you should call a doctor...



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by P3ACE0WAR
 


Natural
–adjective 1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge. 2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature

Cars are not formed by nature, they are formed by man. It is a delicate subject, but when I think of Natural, I think of Trees, Wildlife, Bees, Insects, Volcanos, Earthquakes, they all play their part in a natural cycle. As much as cars are created, they are not part of the natural cycle, they pollute nature, the same as crude oil, which may play its natural part beneath the ground, but when it is brought to the surface, it actually does more damage than good.

Maybe it is what us humans create with natural things that become un-natural, but anything that pollutes the air we breathe is no natural to the planet.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Redevilfan09
reply to post by P3ACE0WAR
 


Natural
–adjective 1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge. 2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature

Cars are not formed by nature, they are formed by man. It is a delicate subject, but when I think of Natural, I think of Trees, Wildlife, Bees, Insects, Volcanos, Earthquakes, they all play their part in a natural cycle. As much as cars are created, they are not part of the natural cycle, they pollute nature, the same as crude oil, which may play its natural part beneath the ground, but when it is brought to the surface, it actually does more damage than good.

Maybe it is what us humans create with natural things that become un-natural, but anything that pollutes the air we breathe is no natural to the planet.


We have been created by nature, what we create is natural, just like beaver creating a dam. It is still natural, because nature created the beaver, and the beaver created the dam. Everything in the end is natural.

When a bird creates a nest, it is natural, the bird is created by nature. The nest is given the ability build by nature, it is still natural.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


S&F
Excellent topic, I was having this very thought just yesterday.
Where do we draw the line between natural & unnatural. When other animals also modify nature to suit their needs and we consider their actions natural.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by P3ACE0WAR
 


Yes you are correct, birds are part of the natural cycle and beavers, The resources they use are part of that natural cycle aswell, no damage done either.

I know what you are getting at here, but there is another level to the entire topic. As the definition states "A natural Bridge", is artificial, not natural. The bridge was created from a tree, which is natural. A car is artificial, not natural. The car serves your purpose, what purpose does it serve to nature apart from polluting it?

Its the same as you losing an eye, your eye was natural, The glass one which you can not see out of to replace your eye is Artificial or un-natural. The only purpose it serves to you is to make you look like you have two eyes, and look like everyone else. Breast Implants are Artificial, Plastic surgery is Artificial. They are created from natural things, but they are Artificial(un-natural).

Please correct me if I'm off track here anyone and I'll shut up. cheers.




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