What swayed your opinion regarding Islam

Im an Australian living in Malaysia which is a moderate muslim country.
I have always found religion to be an interesting topic so every opportunity I get to speak to someone who knows about it, preferably priest, rabbi, monk etc etc Ill take it.

Like all religions the premise is beautiful, love ur neighbours, dont steal, dont hurt anyone, love all etc

What Ive found though and Im sure many people will agree is almost the complete opposite.

Monothesistic religion is always about control and creating an us vs them mentality in its converts/victims. The level of faith/stupidity can almost always be found to correlate with intelligence, education and socio-economic factors.
This is where Islam gets scary for me.
You have an estimated 1 Billion Muslims in the world, most of whom live in 3rd world countries with poor education systems and little if any access to the outside world. Most of the schools that are available to these people are religious ones and most of these are set up by private foundations which are usually fronts for extremist groups.
IMO the next generation of muslims potentially 20% of them could have had this western hating rhetoric shoved down their throats from a very early age and be totally brainwashed by adulthood. The fact the Koran endorses violence ( Moderate muslims will say it doesnt or its been taken out of context but the very fact it CAN be taken out of context is itself disturbing) means for me it is spiritually corrupt.

One of the main tenants in Islam is that there should be no compulsion within religion yet I dont know of 1 muslim country that practices this. The fact that Shariah courts exist to punish people who do things like drink or have pre marital sex is a complete contradiction of what the Koran says.

I would never dislike anyone based on things like race, sex, age, religion etc but I do think moderate Muslims need to wake up and fully distance themselves from the extremists.

I believe Islam was in its time divinely inspired but the world has moved on and apart from its core teaching of love I believe the rest to be invalid.

Examples
*At the time of Islams founding there were many wars and disease so there were more Women than men, hence more than 1 wife, made sense at the time not so much anymore
*As stated above hygiene at this time was almost non existant and many people died of easily preventable illnesses, praying 5 times a day and making sure you were pure before god was a way of making people clean themselves (they probably would have thought Mohammed PBUH was crazy if he told them that little creatures were crawling all over them making them sick)
* The necessity for women being subserviant to men at all times...... ummmmm.....ahhhh..... OK maybe they got something right

So to answer your question simply, what do I think of Islam...... I dont like it and think its slightly worse than Judaism and Christianity.

Im sure if Mohammad PBUH saw what had happened to his teachings and what was being done in his name he would cry at best and at worse call for gods retribution against the vast majority of his supposed followers today.

Spituality should be a private journey and as soon as the world learns that what other people believe or practice has nothing to do with anyone else I reckon the world will be about 80% happier

P.s I realise this post could come of as anti Muslim but thats not the case, I know many Muslimsand count quite a few as good friends including my flatmate and have spoken to most of them about this candidly. They almost all agree with me.
P.p.s the Woman thing was a joke, I am aware women are equal to men in everyway, pls no haters for that
P.p.p.s Please dont tell my Girlfriend I made that joke

Originally posted by Skippy1138
reply to post by P3ACE0WAR

 

Every thread of yours is some sort of pro-Muslim/Muslim apologist agenda."Religion of Peace"? Show me videos of Muslims on September 12 protesting saying "This isn't us..", We don't condone this.." etc etc
No what we saw was videos of people (including children) literally dancing in the streets with joy at the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people..........

Actually I think those videos were debunked as being placed totally out of context. If they made you so angry, maybe you should consider why.

I bet I could have you biting tables in half with sheer outrage with just three minutes of easily edited footage.

Also - are you as easily annoyed when it comes to Israeli's dancing at the destruction of the twin towers, or is your rage reserved just for muslims?

whatreallyhappened.com...

--

As for my opinion. I'm not a fan of Islam, it's too old and dusty and despite it being initially for pure reasons, I think Islam like all the other religions has become tainted.

But, Skippy - This is the point were you decide if you're a hypocrite or not. Are you EQUALLY annoyed at the Israeli's celebrating the destruction of the twin towers, as much as you were at the broadcast images of cheering muslims?

since day 1 i've had very strong feelings about islam. it's a violent cancer with no cure in sight.I can't respect people who believe it because it reveals their weak mind. and yes i'm very closeminded, and have very little care for trying to understand them. call me what you will but I just can't handle stupidity on a level like this IN THESE TIMES!

reply to post by P3ACE0WAR


1. When did you first learn about the goods and bads of Islam/Muslims.
England, 1970's.
2. What was the source of your first encounter, regarding Islam/Muslims.
When the Shah was diposed and my school went from a few to over half muslim
3. What is your opinion of Islam/Muslims now, hasn't changed since your first encounter?
Not too good. Yes. They weren't shooting at me then.
4. What source do you use to gain information now, regarding Islam/Muslims?
Talking to the ones that don't try to shoot me.

reply to post by Skippy1138


You said "

Every thread of yours is some sort of pro-Muslim/Muslim apologist agenda."Religion of Peace"? Show me videos of Muslims on September 12 protesting saying "This isn't us..", We don't condone this.." etc etc
No what we saw was videos of people (including children) literally dancing in the streets with joy at the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people..........

PBS interviewed a person who grew up in Saudi Arabia and went to a Wahhabi school. These are snippets from it:

Reporter said: "If you go to school in Saudi Arabia, what do you learn about people who are not followers of Wahhabi, of the prophet?"

Person responded: "The religious curriculum in Saudi Arabia teaches you that people are basically two sides: Salafis, who are the winners, the chosen ones, who will go to heaven, and the rest. The rest are Muslims and Christians and Jews and others.

They are either kafirs, who are deniers of God, or mushrak, putting gods next to God, or enervators, that's the lightest one. The enervators of religion who are they call the Sunni Muslims who ... for instance, celebrate Prophet Mohammed's birthday, and do some stuff that is not accepted by Salafis.

And all of these people are not accepted by Salafi as Muslims. As I said, "claimant to Islam." And all of these people are supposed to be hated, to be persecuted, even killed. And we have several clergy -- not one Salafi clergy -- who have said that against the Shi'a and against the other Muslims. And they have done it in Algeria, in Afghanistan. This is the same ideology. They just have the same opportunity. They did it in Algeria and Afghanistan, and now New York."

Reporter: What do you mean, it reached New York?

Man: "Well, when it was a local problem, the American media did not really care much about it. But until September 11, you saw how this faith of hate, I call it, did to all of us, to New Yorkers and to the rest of the world, honestly. ..."

Reporter: "But the Saudi government has condemned what happened on September 11....

Man: "... Yes, Prince Nayif condemned bin Laden, and other princes... Prince Turki condemned bin Laden. They did not condemn that message. They condemned bin Laden. ... Bin Laden learned this in Saudi Arabia. He didn't learn it in the moon. That message that Bin Laden received, it still is taught in Saudi Arabia. And if bin Laden dies, and this policy or curriculum stays, we will have other bin Ladens. ..."

Reporter: So the official religion of Saudi Arabia says that 95 percent of people who say they're Islamic are just claiming to be Islamic?

Person: Exactly. This is what is reflected in the textbook, and the books that [are] printed by the government. ...

The full interview can be found here: Full interview

The term "Wahhabi" is used in reference to the followers of the deviant Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, a lunatic literalist who lived some 250 years ago. The guy claimed that he was "reviving Islam" and that the Muslims who lived for some of the past centuries were misguided (but then there's the question of, if that is the case, then how can he trust the current transmission of Islam he then had? He can't. He formed a new religion, which is "Wahhabism").

Iknowstuff hit the nail on the head. Religion at its time was in the right zone and struck a chord.

Looking at it now in the cold light of day though,. it is like watching an 80s sitcom with token gay character. The world has moved on - what may have been acceptable then just does not cut it now.

I have a good friend who is a peace loving Moslem but I cannot get my head around Islam, it sees that there is God and no-one to touch him and there are people. So when I ask where the Angel Gabriel comes in this then there is and an acceptance of the Angel Gabriel but no acceptance of a third tier a sort of demi God. Is Angel Gabriel immortal, how is he different from God? What can the angel do that God cannot do? How can this religion talk of only powerful immortal being and at the next breath introduce a sidekick?

To prove the point that Islam was good "for its time" - it tells me absolutely NOTHING about how to drive my car in a civilised manner. It tells me about eating, sleeping, talking and all other important factors about living but I have to rely on that neo-religious book - the Highway Code to ensure that I drive in a thoughtful and reasonable manner

Funny thing is you don't see many Christians and Jews strapping bombs to their chests in the name of religion. The bible I know teachs peace and tells you to treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated. And what kind of religion promises virgins to the men who die, what do the women in Islam receive?

Muslims are in the same ballpark as Nazism, if not worse...

muslims are the only ones that teach there little ones to kill everyone that dont belive in there God

reply to post by lme7898354


King david hotel bombing, the lavon affair.... look em up.

I am a Christian (born again type) and have never really had a "thing" against Islam.

I lived in a neighbourhood where there where people of many faiths and nationalities. Can't say that I took a dislike to any of them. They were all reasonable, rational, caring and normal.

What, I suppose, swayed me towards Christianity rather than another faith was that God/Jesus cared so much for the human plight that he submitted himself to death by torture, at our hands, so that we could be saved from our own consequences. That, to me, is the embodiment of love.

I don't think I could honour a God who did not show such love and selflessness. It just wouldn't feel right.

If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.

If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing.

If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self. Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut, Doesn't have a swelled head,

Doesn't force itself on others, Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle, Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,

Doesn't revel when others grovel, Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,

Puts up with anything, Trusts God always, Always looks for the best, Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.

Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit.

We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete.

But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

When I was an infant at my mother's breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.

We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

My mother is from the Middle-East. I grew up (pre 9-11) with stories of how most Muslims treat non-Muslims (and women) as 2nd class citizens or worse. I began changing my views in the 90s in high school when I met Muslims who were not evil like I had heard, and were really just like anyone else except they didn't eat pork. Later on in life, however, I changed my mind when I began studying religions. Those good "next-door neighbor" type Muslims were not actually following their religion correctly. The real Muslims, who follow the the prophet and his message, were like the Saudi Arabians, Somalians, Afghanis, etc. who live by Sharia Law. This is why the "good Muslims" I knew never claimed that the Taliban/etc were not true Muslims, the way that the Christians say that those who burn a Koran are not true Christians. The Taliban/Arabians/etc ARE the true Muslims who follow their religion the way it was meant to be followed. The "good Muslims" next-door are NOT following their religion correctly.

reply to post by templar knight


Gabriel is an angel created from light. To understand what Angels are to GOD, you might want to compare it to what Fiber Optic is to man. Angels have no free will, and only follow GOD's command, therefore can be regarded as simply messengers/light signals, activating/deactivating Universal functions etc..

To all

It seems a lot of people have met Muslims with either bad manners, or Muslims who are very disrespectful of others. It seems this is one of the causes for change of the shaping of opinions towards Islam/Muslims. Also many events world wide, which are politically motivated has been seen through the media as Islamically motivated (correct me if I'm wrong please), that has also swayed many opinions, and shaped many opinions hence the Iranian hostage crisis.

To give a comparison I live in a mainly Christian country and I have met many very ill mannered Christians, and many Christians who are very disrespectful of others, this has not swayed my opinion towards Christianity/Christians, because I don't blind myself with hatred and forget that I also have met very well mannered Christians, very respectful and have enjoyed the company of many Christians.

Also I have seen most crime committed by Christians, two of my neighbors have been robbed by Christians in the last 6 months, but I don't allow that to sway my opinion either, because my two neighbors who got robbed were also Christians, very good Christians who I'm in contact with in daily basis, who I help when they need it, for example if the car doesn't start in cold I'm more than willing to lend them a hand and use my car to give it a boost. If they can't pay their rent, they don't go to loan companies, they come to their neighbor, because we can trust them and they can trust us, even though we are Muslim and they Christian.

I still am trying to gain more insight, hoping for more responses, since I still don't quiet understand.

Interesting topic!

I grew up with a cultural awareness of the fairy tales of 1001 Nights. My parents took me to lots and lots of "travelogues" - slide shows at universities given by people who had traveled all over the world. I loved the beautiful architecture of the East and the clothes and the food. None of this really introduced me to Islam, per say, just some aspects of Arabic culture. I think I first became aware of Islam in College when I took a Comparative Religious Studies class. I think that may have been the very first time that I heard that Islam, Christianity and Judaism have overlapping histories/legends/characters, and are considered to be a trio that all have the same basis. I kind-of knew that Judaism and Christianity were related, as I kept asking my Sunday School teachers "if the Jews were God's chosen people, then why aren't we Jews?" They never had a good answer. I didn't realize that Islam was also part of the equation until that college class. By that time, I had given up on trying to make religion, specifically Christianity, fit into my world view, so I really didn't think much of it beyond "huh, fancy that".

Later it dawned on me that the Crusades involved Christians and Muslims (each calling the other infidels), and my opinion on that was (much as it is today) "What the heck were the Christians doing over there trying to convert these people when it isn't any of their business?" It was just academic and interesting history.

In my mid-twenties I started taking belly dancing classes. My teacher was a lovely exotic-looking girl whose Mother was Lebanese and Father was Irish (both were Catholic) and she really liked to get into all kinds of interesting details. We became very good friends and I found myself involved in the wonderful world of the dance community, and because of my teacher and friend, a deepening interest in all things pertaining to Middle Eastern dance. I watched many wonderful and obscure dance videos from Arabic TV shows with amazing dancers, and my friend would explain to me things like, "in Egypt you can't show your belly button - that's why this dancer has her belly button covered" and "Turkish belly dance begins to cross the line to erotic dance, notice they show flashes of the dancer's bare breasts during the video - it's like their version of stripping" but at the same time, "Turkish belly dancers are revered for their beauty and allure." From her, I learned that when you dance at restaurants or shows, you need to verify that you have a male escort or a husband, because "Arabic men have a confusing approach to dancers, the dancer is to be worshipped, but afterwords, she is to be approached because she is likely to be cheap". So if you become a good enough dancer to be hired for parties by Arabic families, you definitely need to know your role and be sure to please the females in the house by getting them up to dance with you and flattering them, and to rebuff the males in the house if they attempt to flirt with you following your set. I eventually did perform at restaurants for a year or so, and I never ran in to trouble, thanks to her good advice. I did meet a couple of Islamic folks who worked there, they seemed normal and nice to me, other than occasionally teasing me about words I did not know. (They were probably trying to get me to say "I fart on demand" or something, from all the giggling that went on when they tried to teach me to say something.) I did like their very community oriented culture, and if there weren't too many customers there, the owner of the restaurant (an Iraqi man) would bring out the hookah and sheesha (tobacco with fruit in it) and put on his white robe and checkered head covering and come out and dance around in a line dance with the other guys, twirling a handkerchief in the air. Good times.

As I was interested in all this, I also started reading books about the culture, and I don't know how sensational versus factual these are, but I read most or all of the "Princess" books by Jean Sasson, which are supposed to be written by "Princess Sultana" (who can't reveal her true name) with Jean's assistance. Princess Sultana purports to be a member of the Saudi Royal Family. I lean towards the books being 2/3 truth and 1/3 exaggeration, however, this is where I started to get more of a concept of Islam. Sultana describes her love of her religion and her joy when her family takes their annual pilgrimage to Mecca. She describes it much as Westerners describe their happy memories of past Christmas family get-togethers. She talks about her struggles with certain aspects, for example, although alcohol is forbidden, she really likes to drink, and has to fight her conscience on this. She talks about the poor and less educated still clinging to the tradition of female circumcision and how she tries to help. She struggles with her two daughters, one who is an animal lover and keeps bringing home pets (which isn't appreciated by the rest of the family as dogs in particular are looked down on in the culture) and the other daughter who is becoming an extremist religious zealot. The books also cover things like a cousin who was locked in her room *for the rest of her life!* by her father for some tiny indiscretion like holding hands with a boy, and other girls (non-family) who were honor-killed. All this, entwined with descriptions of having to go to family events with relatives she doesn't like, at their unbelievably opulent palaces (not that her own home isn't opulent). I could go on, but I guess my point is that this was my first introduction to day-to-day life in an Islamic family, though certainly not a typical one as they are royals. It sounds a lot like the same things a lot of other families deal with, however, the things that stood out that made my opinion start to be less positive about this religion were the honor lockup of the cousin/rumors of other honor killings and the female circumcision. Then again, we recently (in the past year) had a Hispanic honor-killing here in Phoenix, where a Dad ran over his Daughter for being of loose morals - I believe they were Catholic.

When 9-11 occurred, my opinion of the religion didn't change, but my opinion of the number of extremists within that religion did. It was only a day or so after 9-11 when somebody, I think here in Phoenix, killed a Sikh man because he thought he was a terrorist, as he was wearing his traditional turban. I realized then that the number of Christian extremists was also greater than I thought.

A few years later, we had a Java consultant come to our company to teach us for a several-week intensive. He was Muslim, and had an automated alarm on his computer that gave him the call to prayer throughout the day. He just shut the door to his office and went about his business, no problem there. He was very nice and sent us pictures of his wedding, after he left us.

Since then I've mostly been working with Hindu and Buddhist contractors and have not had any more direct contact with Islam.

My general opinion is that religion is the cause of much strife and violence, but it primarily occurs because people don't know people of other faiths and thus tend to be easily swayed by leaders that state that other faiths are inherently wrong. Yes, Islam has its outdated and dark side, but so does Christianity. Christians had the inquisition. Christians used to slaughter livestock for sacrifices and stone adulterers. I don't subscribe to any religion as I don't feel a need for it, or feel it benefits me spiritually or otherwise.

Hope this helps with your research.

Peace ya'll.
Gwynnhwyfar

Let your brothers explain it to you in this video maybe it will sink into your skull coming from the mouth of muslims, they are in this video too watch the whole thing.

video.google.com...#

Oh, my reactions to Islam are not different than my reactions to others of other religions who are alike.

Islam is like the worst parts of the Old Testament brought to life. The ones that when I read them I was disgusted with the lack of humanity in them. Islam is Leviticus and Deuteronomy and Numbers brought to life in my era.

I am no more impressed with the Christians who are alike to them. Nor do I like the Talmud-quoting "thank God I wasn't born a woman" crappola. Nor the Buddhist fundies and their "your problem is that you notice problems" fantasy of the same ilk. Nor the hardline Hindus. Or the fundie old-religionists. Or any of the "freedom is accepting what the special people tell you that God told us what is good for you" horsecrap spewed by every one of them.

I don't like any of you, and your views on women, children, property, rights, or pretty much anything else. I literally find your views on the nature of the Universe stomach churning.

Fundie Islamists just happen to be on a sliding scale in which the above poster is correct - the closer to following the teachings you are the more like a dictatorial pirate club it becomes.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Hypocrite? Hmmmm.....I think the hypocrites are the people that keep telling us over and over that Islam is a "religion of peace".Please post a link to some videos of Buddhists,Mormans,Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesess',Presbyterians,Congregationalists, Seventh Day Adventists,Greek Orthodox,Catholics,etc etc etc sawing people's heads off and videotaping it in the name of "religion".....
I really don't care what faith you choose to follow.You can worship the Church Of Blueberry Pop Tarts for all I care...
But when you want to KILL ME because I prefer strawberry Pop-Tarts- that's a problem.............

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR

It seems a lot of people have met Muslims with either bad manners, or Muslims who are very disrespectful of others. It seems this is one of the causes for change of the shaping of opinions towards Islam/Muslims. Also many events world wide, which are politically motivated has been seen through the media as Islamically motivated (correct me if I'm wrong please), that has also swayed many opinions, and shaped many opinions hence the Iranian hostage crisis.

I have to agree with you there, I would guess most people who dislike muslims have never met one and have been brainwashed.

To give a comparison I live in a mainly Christian country and I have met many very ill mannered Christians, and many Christians who are very disrespectful of others, this has not swayed my opinion towards Christianity/Christians, because I don't blind myself with hatred and forget that I also have met very well mannered Christians, very respectful and have enjoyed the company of many Christians.

Also I have seen most crime committed by Christians, two of my neighbors have been robbed by Christians in the last 6 months, but I don't allow that to sway my opinion either,

True theres rude/bad people everywhere, but when the christians you mention above were robbing ur neighbours I doubt very much they did it in gods name.

To sum it up for you why most westerners dislike Islam is its irrationality, you are never right when talking to a Muslim as the Koran has all the answers ( I actually asked an IPSI guy how he knew the Koran had all the answers, he replied with "coz the Koran says so")
Muslim men treat women like dirt, yes I realise it a generalisation but from the evidence Ive seen its pretty bloody accurate. Dont know if the rest of the world heard this but in Australia a few yrs back there were about 4 occasions over a 6 month period where groups of between 6-15 Young Muslim men (16 was the youngest and about 27 was the oldest from memory) gang raping women they abducted. Yes there was a massive media beat up but what really made it bad is the reaction of the people at the mosques and even Australias head cleric who were interviewed after. All basically said the girls got what they deserved, one man even saying "they were sluts anyway". This you could just put own to ignorance but then the cleric... OMFG..... he actually had the audacity to compare women not wearing Hijabs being raped to "leaving rotten meat out and expecting a cat not to eat it"!!!!!!!! basically he says these women asked for it coz they werent wearing Hijab... In fricken Australia! and this was the guy who is meant to be the head muslim!!!!!!

Minority groups that move anywhere and flat out reject the culture and refuse to integrate are always going to be mistrusted. Any minority group that move somewhere and not only refuse to integrate but try to impose their culture/beliefs on the one they moved to will be despised. Good or bad, that unfortunately is human nature.

Originally posted by LoverBoy
I first learned about Islam on my tour in Iraq. I saw things from first hand experience that I still vividly have in my head and unfortunately always will. I saw a boy under 12 get decapitated by a piece of metal that came off a car when it blew up. I have seen multiple children murdered in car bombs. I have witnessed muslim men drive cars toward civilians as well as troops trying to kill anyone. I have seen all their disregard for life. That's my experience and its not from the msm.

Thank YOU and all other military for your service to our great country. Me and my family sleep well at night knowing that we are under the blanket of protection that you have dedicated your life to providing.

reply to post by P3ACE0WAR


I study all Religions. I have read the Quran (in English) andI have known about Islam (The true Quran Islam) since then and it is a Nazi-ish cult of death. Their book is very clear on these points. Do I think all Islam is evil? No Like most "Christians" they don't really read their Book or follow it if they don't like to or it interferes with their chosen lifestyle, so I believe most Islamists don't really read their Book or follow it Death Edicts. But the Religion (not really one I don't think) is a death cult if taken by it's Book only. Which is probably why they are such an easy target for false flag ops and so called fundamentalist Islamists probably do exist but in such low numbers over the whole.

I also have a Biblical outlook of life and I try to follow my Book, I see the two sons of Abraham killing each other and I am saddened by it. But my Book said this would be so through all the ages and so far it has been. I think war is a huge profit maker for the elite and Godless (of any kind of God) and the Love of Money is the root of all evil.

Bottom line, Rich/poor, fat/skinny, old/young, black/white and etc. need to stop being divided by the elites that are screwing us all! As long as we fight over the minutia they will control us.