Are successful "exorcisms" exclusively Catholic?

reply to post by DrJay1975


Interesting, searching the term turns up varied results, any info you can point me towards?

reply to post by milkyway12


We definitely have a difference of OPINION when it comes to why we're here, in the end, it's just that, our opinion, neither of us has any proof one way or the other except our own experiences and the way we interpret things. I also don't buy into the perpetual guilt of "sin". I understand many do, but maybe in time they'll evolve away from those beliefs or vice versa, things change.

You actually seem to have a more open mind than most "serious" Christians, but one thing I always see is a blind faith in the bible. Even bible scholars agree the bible is full of contradictions and anyone who's traced it's history knows it's purpose was likely more than enlightenment. Simply put, it's impossible for me to put any faith in the bible, it is not LAW to me, it's a religious book that just doesn't move or influence me whatsoever because I don't trust it's message, the goals of those who put it together or many of the terrible things done in its name. Out of respect, I try not to bash it because right or wrong it offends the faithful and I'm sure I don't have total understanding, but enough to stay wary.

There is no common answer to most questions, asking the same questions of 10 different "preachers' gets you ten different answers, that may be more telling in itself. Some say follow it literally, others say it's just metaphors, on and on and on. I don't like the idea of a book that pushes people to stop thinking for themselves and not take responsibility for their actions, but instead use "God's word" as an excuse to do whatever they want and oppress the gullible people just trying to find a true path.

To me, people that claim they KNOW what it means are either at best naive and at worst manipulative liars. It's interesting how some people learn more about their faith and are disgusted by it because of the negatives, and others are able to ignore them completely and focus on the what they see as the positives, maybe the best CHOICE is somewhere in the middle.

No they dont have a monopoly on exercising demons.. Over the years in my travels have seen muslims, taoists and buddhists succesfully exercise demons. Its just not publicised the way catholics and westerners publicise things. Tbh from what have seen the taoist and buddhist methods much more effective than western methods..

Add to that list, Wiccans. A friend of mine was exorcised by her acupuncturist- 5 dragons treatment being part of the process.

I suppose it may depend on the faith of the 'spirit' (if we interpret them as deceased people) as to what would successfully banish them. Ritual can be a powerful tool to focus energy, no matter the faith behind it. I have a feeling that believing something will work is what gives it its power (just my personal thinking).

An interesting topic, not one to be taken lightly and these rituals are best respected and handled by those that know what they are doing with them.

Its just simple faith and i understand what you are saying about (using God's forgiveness as an excuse to sin)

However , your rewards will be limited in Heaven if you do so , i simply believe that God is greater than our sin , he is God after all. There is nothing that he hasnt thought of (i believe) and nothing that the blood of his son cant cover (i believe).

Hitler if he would have asked forgiveness and truly repented to Jesus. Then he would be saved (in heaven) because again , Jesus's blood was forgiveness for everything. All you have to do is ask , you dont have to do anything but believe and ask.

I find it comforting that nothing you can do can take you away from God. Even if you look down upon it...isnt that what true forgiveness is....true mercy? Unlimited Love and forgiveness , what is so wrong with that? What is so bad about a truly merciful and perfect God , that requires nothing but your faith.

Again , take this as an Opinion and not a fact. I simply believe and have faith ... thats all you can do. If you die forever , ok , you wont notice lol. If you dont..well..i hope i made the right choice thats how i look at it.

I dont know what the rewards in heaven are besides crowns , maybe we would not be able to understand, or if it is just not for us to know yet as peter said , he heard things in heaven that no living man should hear. So im sure there are boundless things in heaven we cant fatham that God is keeping hidden until his family comes home and many things will be revealed. If you believed here on Earth and just trusted and you didnt see a singal deffinite sign of his existance , that gets you a crown already in heaven , for Jesus even stated , it would be better if you never knew me ( Met him in person because Jesus states they will be Judged more Harshly than those that knew him not , meaning Christian and Non Christian)

(Im not trying to be annoying i just love talking about it. Im pretty sure i have drained my side of the topic)

But yes , Exorcisms of other faiths seem to work to some degree.

reply to post by milkyway12


I wouldn't say you've drained the topic at all. I challenge many Christians on their beliefs not because I'm trying to pick a fight or bash their beliefs, I'm always looking for some convincing arguments, truthfully, I would LOVE to be thoroughly convinced that just believing in Jesus is the answer, but I'm just not. It doesn't mean that if he appeared to me and asked me to accept or reject him I wouldn't gladly accept, I just don't think that happens.

I do see the point in "What do you have to lose?", but to me that's fear based and it just doesn't sit right.

As mentioned above, I'm more inclined to believe the power to exorcise could be an internal "power" and if it's demonstrated that Jesus alone doesn't hold this power over evil and demons etc, I find that very interesting. It doesn't take anything away from Catholics, except exclusivity.

reply to post by Paschar0


well it depends on your views. Some will say that only people can be possed so exercising a house of spirits wont work, this view is taken by the catholic church. but there are wiccan rituals that have removed demons from houses not people if you count this as exercism than no its not exclusivly catholic

reply to post by Paschar0


I understand completely what your saying. I believe one day people will see him ...however it will be late. They must remain here on Earth. I believe in the Rapture (I believe Pre Tribulation could happen or Mid Tribulation , however Post Tribulation , i do not believe in because that is the time of God's wrath , he tells us he will not let his Children face his wrath, if he does let us go through Post Trib, then he will provide for us as he did for the Jews in the wilderness and Noah , he has not let his people down ever , he has only allowed ... Tribulations , not exstinction. Any way thats a different topic)

Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" (Matt. 7:22,23)
The apostles reported others, not of their group, who were also invoking the powerful name of Jesus, but Jesus does not rebuke them:
"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us" (Mk. 9:38-40).

Christians have a greater cause to rejoice than just having the spiritual power to drive out demons:

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven" (Lk. 10:17-20).

26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27 'And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. 28 'But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 'Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. NAS


In order of brilliance the trinity is at the top of knowledge. God is omniscient and therefore knows all that is knowable, and all that is possible. Satan, formerly known as Lucifer prior to his fall, is the next in line in IQ. Satan however falls far short of Gods wisdom. Though Satan is extremely smart, he is not omniscient. He cannot know beyond his own ability even though his ability is far beyond that of mankind.


Other angels come next in their ability to know and understand, and mankind comes in at a very distant fourth place (God, Satan, all the rest of the angels, then man). Other animals are as far back behind mans level of intelligence as man is behind the angels.


So Satan is a very powerful and strong individual. Unfortunately he uses his smarts for the purpose of deceiving, and lying, and destroying rather than for good. He is no fool. Satan would not uses his own forces to destroy himself. Therefore the work of Christ in running demons out of people cannot be from the design and direction of Satan.


If this were the case, then the 'sons' of the Pharisees, who attempt with limited success, to exorcise demons out of people, are from the same master - Satan. So the Pharisees are now hypocrites in that if Jesus is accused of being from Satan, when He is successful in casting out demons, then the attempts of the Pharisees are from Satan as well. Or, if the casting out of demons by Jesus is from God, then the criticism of the Pharisees is faulty and Jesus is truly from God, therefore the Messiah, therefore the Son of God, therefore the True King to come, therefore the ruler of all that exists (including the Sabbath).


Jesus has shown all that He is capable of entering into a strong mans house (Satan), has tied him up with truth, (prophecy, miracles) and is about to take him for all that he is worth (victory on the cross, victory at the second advent, victory at the end of the Millennium).


No one else in history has been able, nor ever will be able to place Satan in check. Only God Himself can be successful in this task. Satan and his demons know of Jesus and Paul and those to whom God gives direct authority, but they do not recognize anyone else, Acts 19:13-14. Satan will utilize many frauds of history (Buddha, Allah, and so forth) to deceive many, but none can defeat him. Only Christ alone can accomplish this.

As you can see , Jesus name has power to a degree to a non believe...just hope the demon isnt very powerful he may just give you a whipping.

The Bible tells also how Non Christians will do great Works and Wonders in the end days , however it does not tell us how they do so. So i can not give you a Biblical answer to that without becoming a Spiritual Conspiracy theorist

reply to post by Paschar0


Well.. first, I should ask you to clarify by evil, do you mean demonic? If so.. well.. you don't douse magnesium with water, but against fire, it can't be beat. Could other things evict a demon from a body? Probably. But would you kick a tagalong spirit out with an exorcism? Wouldn't do you any good. You have to reason with the spirit or have something credible to threaten it with. Demons are scared of what an exorcism implies.. why not use the proper tool for the proper being?

A note worthy of consideration to both you and other christians in the thread. I believe the exact wording in the book says "Thou shalt have no 'other' gods before me." While I don't deny the existance of YHWH and I have no reason to believe or disbelive the existance of Jesus of Nazareth... I would consider demons to be his domain. Were I to run afoul of the baddie of another mythology, I'd probably invoke the name of a diety that was its nemesis, if the cost weren't too high.

I love Solomon. I love to study him and read what he has done , he was a wise man and had many experiences.

51. And I praised the Lord God of heaven and earth, and bade another demon come forward to me; and
there came before me one in the form of a lion roaring. And he stood and answered me saying: "O king, in
the form which I have, I am a spirit quite incapable of being perceived. Upon all men who lie prostrate with
sickness I leap, coming stealthily along; and I render the man weak, so that his habit of body is enfeebled.
But I have also another glory, O king. I cast out demons, and I have legions under my control. And I am
capable of being received [1] in my dwelling-places, along with all the demons belonging to the legions
under me." But I Solomon, on hearing this, asked him: "What is thy name?" But he answered: "Lionbearer,
Rath [2] in kind." And I said to him: "How art thou to be frustrated along with thy legions? What
angel is it that frustrates thee?" And he answered: "If I tell thee my name, I bind not myself alone, but also
the legions of demons under me."So I said to him: "I adjure thee in the name of the God Sabaoth, to tell me by what name thou art
frustrated along with thy host." And the spirit answered me: "The 'great among men,' who is to suffer many
things at the hands of men, whose name is the figure 644, which is Emmanuel; he it is who has bound us,
and who will then come and plunge us from the steep [1] under water. He is noised abroad in the three
letters which bring him down [2]."

I therefore Solomon prayed to my God, and I invoked the angel of whom Enépsigos spoke to me, and
used my seal. And I sealed her with a triple chain, and (placed) beneath her the fastening of the chain. I
used the seal of God, and the spirit prophesied to me, saying: "This is what thou, King Solomon, doest to
us. But after a time thy kingdom shall be broken, and again in season this Temple shall be riven asunder
[1]; and all Jerusalem shall be undone by the King of the Persians and Medes and Chaldaeans. And the
vessels of this Temple, which thou makest, shall be put to servile uses of the gods; and along with them all
the jars, in which thou dost shut us up, shall be broken by the hands of men. And then we shall go forth in
great power hither and thither, and be disseminated all over the world. And we shall lead astray the
inhabited world for a long season, until the Son of God is stretched upon the cross. For never before doth
arise a king like unto him, one frustrating us all, whose mother shall not have contact with man. Who else
can receive such authority over spirits, except he, whom the first devil will seek to tempt, but will not
prevail over? The number of his name is 644 [2], which is Emmanuel. Wherefore, O King Solomon, thy
time is evil, and thy years short and evil, and to thy servant shall thy kingdom be given [3]."

66. And I Solomon, having heard this, glorified God. And though I marvelled at the apology of the demons,
I did not credit it until it came true. And I did not believe their words; but when they were realized, then I
understood, and at my death I wrote this Testament to the children of Israel, and gave it to them, so that
they might know the powers of the demons and their shapes, and the names of their angels, by which these
angels are frustrated. And I glorified the Lord God of Israel, and commanded the spirits to be bound with
bonds indissoluble.

Testament of Solomon that was excluded from the Bible because it did not serve Jesus's word. There is nothing wrong with this testament but it is no longer needed. Jesus is the Frustration of all spirits. In my opinion

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Paschar0

 

The casting out of demons does not seem to be recorded in the Torah (Old Testament) and similarly in other Caananite faiths. It was much later when this was codified/ritualised by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

I have heard of Protestant Churches performing exorcisims but they also invoke the name and protection of Jesus Christ.

I know that there are some shamanistic faiths that both accept and exorcise familiar or posessing spirits as part of their faith.

This is true, the concept of Demons came about with the Holy (cough) Roman Church. The funny thing is only Catholics and Christians seem to get possessed in the first place. I think what happens is when the devout open up their hearts and minds to "Jesus" or some other made up deity, they open up to anything that happens to be present. From my studies in the Occult I know that no other Spirit, inferior or otherwise, can enter the human body unless invited to do so, so, some form if invitation must must happen for this to take place. The very word "Demon" means "Holy Guardian Spirit, or Inner Spirit or Self," taken from a Greek word, so the Demons have to be people who were alive, and are now dead.

Are successful "exorcisms" exclusively Catholic?,

Only when they are Catholic-Produced demons attaching themselves to other catholics.

There are other Indigenous peoples demons that require their own mysticism to bind,

In the world of demons, man kind is responsible for their creation and their destruction for the vast majority of cases. Yet there are old ones lurking about - although they play the game much differently then hollywood movies would reveal.

The path of the heart will always lead you well,

-GM

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


Something to think about. Ancient evil is a mostly unknown quantity and it doesn't really tangle with people without a reason that I know of. To you and the above poster, I suppose the question begs to be asked.. is it an external influence or one of our own design? It's not unknown of someone to possess themselves. I hadn't given it much thought before this, but say in some cases the person did invite the change but was powerless to enact it. Forgive the reference, but something like Tyler Durden. In that case, would exorcism help if the person exorcised believed that it would work? Being that they're only afflicted with their own true desire.. maybe not their own true nature, but .. possibly feeling frustrated, powerless... willing to "make a deal with the devil" as it were to resolve their feelings of helplessness.. I'll have to mull over that for a while.

Ancient evil...It begs the question - how long have we truly been here?

In my experience with the occult, shamanism and esoteric practices of the world - the unresolved negative energy of human beings will compound, decoct and intensify throughout the ages.

When we start dealing with the ancient monstrosities of evil Its my belief that we are dealing with perhaps millions of years of a communal human negativity that has enough energy to manifest as a conscious being, driven by the individual qualities and emotions - with the "Like attracts Like" relationship.

To match your hollywood reference - Imagine T1000 from Terminator2 - Melding together with sickening blobs of liquid metal. Now imagine a being composed of the energy of 2 billion raped women, murdered husbands, or abandoned children.

Energy once created does not just go away, it will find a home inside of someone else, be transmuted by the original owner, or wander the ether until it finds "like" shards of itself, and seek solace with them. But their communal presence will only ever work to recreate whatever scenario has caused their wounding.

The demons of Rape, will only seek to create scenarios of rape - even though they are composed of the souls of the raped. We are one being, seeking to balance our original self through repeating the lessons we have yet to learn.

Now aside from all this, we still have crazy people who do crazy things, but everyone in this world is influence by what I call "Shadows" - and this is not shadow people or otherworld beings of darkness - these are collective negative influences from all of humanity, reaching into the hearts and souls of everyone alive today - the shadows reach out to replicate the lessons yet unlearned and it is our responsibility to choose the path of the heart, which is untainted by shadows.

Tyler Durden - Is a shadow - It may very well be linked to the influence of a man-made demon.

I have a theory - That to the farthest reaches of this universe, there is just more versions of us, different appearances, different races, but we are all the same - dealing with the same lessons in varying degrees and intensities - There are other beings of course, but perhaps unseen from our current capability of perception, we are all working together to truly understand the path of the heart and the freedom it grants.

I dont think you can truly be harmed or influenced by anything, unless you are already missing the vital parts of yourself.

But the funny thing is - nearly all of us are missing pieces of ourselves - We 'must' find them.

-GM

Interesting theory. Might also explain how the power of prayer has proven to be helpful in so many cases. Energy in whatever form does indeed seem to go somewhere regardless of the label attached to it.

Also a bit ironic to mention "rape demons" when talking about a Catholic topic.

I've wondered about this also. The final lines of the exorcism of Emily Rose movie come to mind, where basically she says that if evil exists, then therefore God exists. Naturally another Catholic exorcism.

Might also be due to the U.S. audience be predominantly Christian, movies and books have to make money and it also plays into other factors.

Interesting thought