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Furious Greeks press for country to default on debt

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posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by KrypticCriminal
 


Just the fact that you pointed out an invasion on these countries must mean you believe in that possibility. So I'm telling you that no one would be stupid enough to attack an EU country. Unless you are willing to lose a valuable ally. Europe has always been a critical middle ground to the US and Russia. It's game over for whoever makes the EU an enemy.




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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King Creisus of greek Ionia invented money about 600 BC. Maybe the Greeks can invent the successor to money. Neccessity is the mother of invention.

Ultimately, default is the only way to get even with centuries (millenia?) of confiscation by financial operations.
Money should facilitate trade and not have trump over all property and labor.

Greece is small enough that this event could be bypassed, although it is a marker down the road of financial take over of the globe. The economy crashing now would be too straight forward and simple-- so I think no crash this time.

Complexity is important in maintaining illusions and we need to need the experts.

The deeper truth is that, in a financial rule of the world, everything will be owned by the rulers and we will all be living on the dole. So the rulers are getting what they want here.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Jepic
reply to post by KrypticCriminal
 


Just the fact that you pointed out an invasion on these countries must mean you believe in that possibility. So I'm telling you that no one would be stupid enough to attack an EU country. Unless you are willing to lose a valuable ally. Europe has always been a critical middle ground to the US and Russia. It's game over for whoever makes the EU an enemy.


At what point have i said that someone will be attacking an EU country? I said no one would because theres nothing to gain from it in terms of resources which is what it all boils down to anyway, merely offering a hyperthetical outcome, which was entirely my oppinion and not based on any facts.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by The Revenant
If Greece turns around and defaults on its' debt, all of the countries that bailed it out last time will lose their investments, and all hell will break loose economically.


hmmm if one defaults on a home mortgage they foreclose and take the property back

Can we foreclose on Greece?


Let the system fail... start over... worked in German. I still have some of those old pieces of paper money when a loaf of bread went for a Million Marks



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by The Revenant
If Greece turns around and defaults on its' debt, all of the countries that bailed it out last time will lose their investments, and all hell will break loose economically.


hmmm if one defaults on a home mortgage they foreclose and take the property back

Can we foreclose on Greece?


Let the system fail... start over... worked in German. I still have some of those old pieces of paper money when a loaf of bread went for a Million Marks


You just reminded me off a picture i saw when i was at school of a little German girl playing with what must have been ten million marks.

Irelivant i know but i just had to mention it.

Your right Germany did recover but only by reintergating with the current monetary system. When it all falls down what then? Gold, barter?

Im not bothered either way as long as its gone, but it wont be pretty.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by KrypticCriminalGold, barter?


Gold is difficult... what ya going to do carry a scale and a file?

Barter... that works
years ago in Toronto there was a group of businessmen who formed a group for barter. It worked well because it had a sort of 'bank' attached where you could use your barter credits So If say I installed 10 alarm systems in the system, but didn't need the services of those particular 10 people, I could use those credits with others in the list..

Kinda beat the tax man too (SHHHHHHH)

I bet there are similar groups in other cities



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by KrypticCriminalGold, barter?


Gold is difficult... what ya going to do carry a scale and a file?

Barter... that works
years ago in Toronto there was a group of businessmen who formed a group for barter. It worked well because it had a sort of 'bank' attached where you could use your barter credits So If say I installed 10 alarm systems in the system, but didn't need the services of those particular 10 people, I could use those credits with others in the list..

Kinda beat the tax man too (SHHHHHHH)

I bet there are similar groups in other cities


You know, ive often wondered how barter might work. Obviously certain skills or services will be more important than others. Creating a wealth gap of sorts, but that system sounds like it could work. As long as no one felt like they were getting short changed.

Nice




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by DarylHamblett
Happy is the man who is out of debt.
(proverb:@@


And Yeshua wrote in the sand!

All our laws, or at least many, are crimes. Banks, money,= slavery. This is an enormous crime against humanity. No one owes anyone anything.

All humans are born with the equal rights to land and resources, and collective goals, ie. volunteering for projects to improve things, ie. clean projects, clean technology, for they also have the responsibility to not harm.

A kind of collective freedom.

The opportunity to do this has been stolen from everyone and they are forced as slaves to work for lodgings.

Any thing they think you owe, the illegal interantional criminals owe you and yours a thousand fold.

So everyone should default and fire them all too. I denounce every government in this world and renounce them, for their crimes against humanity and murder of civilians and humanity. I renounce the world pyramid system and wish all banks to crumple. Walk away from this. And collectively start to share and care and find a new way.
edit on 17-4-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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I hope my debt gets deleted if the mierde does hit he fan



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by KrypticCriminal Creating a wealth gap of sorts, but that system sounds like it could work. As long as no one felt like they were getting short changed.


The system does require a lack of greed and a little honor
In our case with the security systems, we had older stock and idle time periods, so dropping them into barter worked out great. The thing that is best about a barter system is that skills have value. I can go to the bakers house and do some yard work and get fresh bread


My neighbor 2 doors up grows veggies and has chickens... so I get weekly fresh eggs for stuff I get free from conventions in Vegas.. One show was a gourmet food show... brought home tons of samples and so many fresh huge strawberries that we couldn't eat. I had a whole bunch of happy neighbors that day and still have frozen ones a year later



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


I wish Americans would take a good hard look at what strong minded people can do. And that goes for the rest of Europe also. TPTB want bail outs so they can dig their claws even deeper in our governments. I often wonder if some governments are already bought and paid for. The financial world is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Anyone investing alot of money into is crazy or in on it at this point.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by KrypticCriminal
 


That's what I mean. The fact that you even suggested that an attack is not likely means you actually think it's something you the elites would consider. Which is not.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


The Greek economy is a sham. Greece should never have been allowed to enter into the EU and like the other failing states in Europe, Spain and Portugal, they have never met the fiscal obligations set forth by the EU in terms of the debt/GDP ratios. Let Greece default, kick them out of the EU and let them reinstate their own currency and the large banks holding Greek debt, mostly German and UK banks write off the debt.

Painful? Yes. Enough to collapse the global economy? No.

Put troops on the border to stem the flow of economic refugees and let the economy collapse. Its going to collapse, so that collapse can either be managed or simply allowed to happen. Might as well just let it happen.

I'm Greek and have lived in Greece. The Greeks don't work. Rural Greece is practically independant from urban Greece and the small towns largely self-sufficient. As it relates to the islands, a default would benefit them as the exchange rates would bring more tourists to them. The mindset of the typical Greek living in Athens is the hell with the EU. They are well aware of the fact that Germany is essentially subsidizing them and they absolutely do not care. They do not care in the least. They sit in the taverna at 2:00 on a week day sipping retsina, play dominoes and laugh. You can not tell a Greek what to do and they will never abide from external mandates. Everyone of my family was laughing when they admitted Greece into the EU. It was obviously destined to fail. Now its failed and instead of looking to fix it, they should simply be kicked out of the EU and work to restructure the debt, or write it off and be done with it. The debt is a sham anyway. It will never be repaid.

As far as the international bankers, folks in the thread are right, but the blame is on both sides. The bankers never should have loaned Greece the money in the first place and the Greeks fundamentally knowing that they would not restructure their economy and probably never intended to repay it, never should have taken the loans.

The parallel here between those who don't work and those who do in an individual society are instructive. The Greece/Germany relationship is that same as the unproductive/productive citizen in any country. The unproductive will either bring the productive down or the productive will cut the unproductive loose. The latter is far more likely and a far better option.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 



if your house is
repossessed and sold by the banks and they
send you a bill for the difference left on the loan.
If the bank writes that off to bad debt, then you
the former homeowner have to claim it as income
on your taxes and pay taxes to the IRS for your gain.
What a f' up system we have. You're screwed
by the system from the day you were born.


No, I did not know that. lol - cuz ya gotta.

...You're right, screwed. But - do you know? Does that come from the 2005 Personal Bankruptcy Act?

New Bankruptcy Bill Protects Rich: Squeezes Troops, Everyone Else



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
Painful? Yes. Enough to collapse the global economy? No.


I'd disagree with you here - I think that by itself, it wouldn't contribute to a collapse globally. But given everything else that's going on, it will just further stress an already knackered system. Each shock weakens the monetary system we operate around.

The Rev.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by The Revenant
 


I am still trying to understand this…

Who exactly does Greece owe its debt too? The E.U. and the IMF for the €146 billion they lent them in the 2010 rescue package, right?

Greece needed that money in the first place because their government was vastly overspending and had been cooking their books publically, so that their economic stats would meet the E.U. membership economic requirements, and this allowed them to stay in the E.U., correct?

And the reason Greece can no longer devalue their currency to attract foreign investment and save face like a country would normally do in this situation is because they no longer have an independent central bank that prints their own currency since they joined the E.U., and European Central Bank with its euro.

So, why the hell did they join the E.U. in the first place? Where they forced?



edit on 17-4-2011 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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argentina defaulted on it's debt and the worst thing that happened was that they were kicked out of the visa waiver program with the u.s.

but then again argentina is a self sustaining country that exports more than it imports.

atleast the greeks aren't taking any sh-t. their politicians screwed them and their not going to repay what they don't owe.

they hold each man responsible for their actions, regardless if done in government.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by randomname
 


Yeah, the OP article says that in 1998 Russia defaulted too. However, I think Greece owes about a €100 billion more and doesn't have the resources to make it up.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Greece would be kicked out of the EU if they tried this.. But I honestly think that eventually they will. Greeks are among the most socialist in Europe.. Austerity is against their core belief that the State should provide all services.. take away the services and you get one pissed off populace. The "Bailouts" are nothing more than a can being kicked down the road.. countries like Greece, Ireland and Portugal have debts so large that adding repayment of bailout funds only means they will get on average 5 years before all hell breaks loose..



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Hmmm.

How can we talk about already hungry people getting into "austerity measures" - when the financial industry that caused the crisis got Billions in bail-out cash, CEO bonuses are in the millions, and wage raises far surpass cosy-of-living increases. In the banks.




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