I don't believe UFOs are extraterrestrial in nature

But I must be sceptical about this - I could be wrong and they are indeed visiting entities from worlds other than our own.

My belief is that unknown aerial phenomena are just that - unknown.

My belief is that through further observations, collation of information from other 'professional' observers, study of commonalities and un-commonalities within these datasets, testing of theories and predictions of when these phenomena may reoccur and surmising why certain phenomena don't reappear and leaving that open for further study that we will cut down many of the unexplainable parts.

The unexplainable parts is why I come to ATS. ATS explained the Norway spiral within hours of it being initially observed and outranked 'official' information by days. Through the collection of great minds here, both professional and otherwise, wiorking together mysteries can become known. Myth becomes knowledge.

I have seen nothing that explains extraterrestrials as having visited Earth at any given moment in time.

I have seen no accounts which make me think that control measures, knowledge basis and observations account for the conclusion of intelligent life from other worlds visiting Earth.

This is my belief system.

However I do have to be sceptical about it; I could be wrong. My scepticism allows for the chance that aliens are visiting Earth and that some aerial phenomena may be attributed to them even though there is no evidence to substantiate it.

This is why I come to ATS. Hard working ATS members find out the truth, sorts the fact from the fictional and the wheat from the chaff and to date hasn't presented anything that would allow for my sceptical self to see the aliens or extraterrestrial craft which grants it existence.

To all of those who share in my sceptical self's thinking as a belief.

What makes up your sceptical self's existence?

-m0r

The sheer undeniable truth is that organics, bacteria, and other simple life can be sustained in the most unimaginably inhospitable places. The next truth is that there is likely a billion earth like planets alone just in our galaxy.

Well, there's a good chance they got more crawlin' around then just protozoic life.

reply to post by Tephra


I don't doubt that Tephra, point well made and I fully concur.

However with current understandings of physics and the vastness of space (and time) the chances of any of it visiting us is slim to none. Not to say I wouldn't love to be proven wrong.

That's just the thing though; my belief lies in proof, evidence, repeatable observations and tangible substantiations which hold up to scrutiny. Whether that belief is proven wrong or proven right I do need something other than faith with which to alter my attitude.

-m0r

Originally posted by m0r1arty
Through the collection of great minds here, both professional and otherwise, wiorking together mysteries can become known. Myth becomes knowledge.

This exactly why I visit ATS. It's amazing what people can dig up when they take the time to find the truth. Great post m0r

p.s I must admit that I do enjoy the occasional wacked out ET story/video and there's plenty on ATS

"I don't believe UFOs are extraterrestrial in nature"

Goooooooooooooooooooooood for you maaaaaaaaan

They are indeed "unknown" phenomena. This is the reason why it's so interesting and gets talked about here so often. If it were known, there wouldn't be much speculation. So we try to come up with possible explanations - aliens from other planets or dimensions, future human time travellers, or highly advanced secret projects (which is my best guess).
As for the alien solution, I wouldn't dismiss it completely because, as said in a previous post, the numbers suggest it is bound to exist beyond Earth. I find it difficult to take any eyewitness accounts as solid evidence of aliens because they often contradict each other. However, there is some physical evidence - such as the unknown implants found in some people.
Enjoyed hearing about your thoughts. Nice post.

I cannot fathom the mere thought that we should be the only life in the multiverse. I mean...wut? It just does not compute.

From every age, we have evidence of visitation, with the "authorities" or "academics" clutching at straws so as to dream up some thoroughly implausible explanation for its presence. We have caveman art, we have ancient native tribal art, we have paintings from the renaissance and before, we have photographs from times before we knew flight. How much more evidence do you need to shift your belief system to being more accepting of this body of evidence? The more I read this kind of thread, the more I see it as abject fear -- or worse, disinformation -- rather than a healthy, curious intellect.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


We have drawings of things from years ago.

That's your basis for believing in alien visitation?

Out of curiosity does 'Alice in Wonderland' hold any modicum of talking bunnies or smiling cats?

Proof requires more than just something looks a little like something we've seen in films (which looks like a very basic human face/shape).

-m0r

reply to post by m0r1arty


Well, I can tell you that I have seen them four times in my life and I grew up in the US Navy, on military bases. Just because you don't have one in front of you doesn't make it fantasy. Does your mother love you? How can you know? Show me this mythical "love" thing. I don't believe in the color red because my son is colorblind and he can't see it. But wait! *I* can see it! Hey! I can trust my own eyes. And I don't need to be afraid of being from other places because to them I'm a being from another place! We'll probably sit down for a nice picnic or something. Wow. The world is cool when you aren't scared of it.

I think the documented evidence is pretty strong that something of an Extraterrestrial nature went on in the 40s and 50s , ok there's no solid proof but it was a time of high strangeness .
The 1976 Iran UFO encounter is another compelling incident that could point to UFOs being Extraterrestrial in nature .


I am not so sure that anything Extraterrestrial has been visiting recently though .

I personally believe they are but only because all throughout history people have seen them and have described them the same way we do now and we know that the are craft like objects and are some sot of high tech craft that we don't have.......either that or they are some sort of natural phenomenon that we don't know about.

reply to post by m0r1arty

I personally believe all truly unexplained flying phenomena are either natural or manmade black budget projects. The other 99.9% are nothing. I haven’t seen anything that convinces me YET, they are ET in origin. But I’m open to it. And I don’t have a problem with it, or a need to debunk the believers.

Having said that, we do have some historical, though speculative and circumstantial evidence that the ability of flight may be thousands of years older than what we think it is. But since that goes against the modern scientific paradigm, as well as our tendency to see mans history as linear in progression. I don’t expect that many will agree with me on that.

S&F OP.

reply to post by m0r1arty


They may not be extra terrestrial. They may be terrestrial.
Sub oceanic, sub terrestrial and a parallel evolutionary life form.

To date, we have explored less than five percent of the ocean
which covers 70% of the earths surface!
oceanservice.noaa.gov...

Much remains to be learned from exploring the mysteries of the deep. The ocean is the lifeblood of Earth, covering more than 70 percent of the planet's surface, driving weather, regulating temperature, and ultimately supporting all living organisms.

And not to mention what may exist underground, google "holes in the earth" and you will see some odd "entrances" that might serve the purpose very well. Also some strange information can be found here. www.crystalinks.com...

We can only conjecture about what secret programs are being conducted away from preying eyes. The underground can and does hold all sorts of secrets. Some of the most amazing revelations about what goes on in the underground projects comes from a mysterious informant named Thomas, and who claims there is, indeed, a deep dark secret harbored underneath the imposing mountainous elevations of Northern New Mexico.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
I cannot fathom the mere thought that we should be the only life in the multiverse. I mean...wut? It just does not compute.

There is as much empirical proof of a multiverse as there is that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid named Trevor. It's only a working theory. I think we need to ascertain whether intelligent life forms can travel the vast distances of space within our known universe firstly before we start flipping out on unfalsifiables such as multiverses. That said, you won't get any argument from me that the known universe is bursting with life.

IRM

the explinations for ufos include more than justs et

there interdimesional being, underground species, underwater civiliztion, skybeast(atmosphereic life), nazis, a projection of our minds, and more

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
I cannot fathom the mere thought that we should be the only life in the multiverse. I mean...wut? It just does not compute.

There is as much empirical proof of a multiverse as there is that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid named Trevor. It's only a working theory. I think we need to ascertain whether intelligent life forms can travel the vast distances of space within our known universe firstly before we start flipping out on unfalsifiables such as multiverses. That said, you won't get any argument from me that the known universe is bursting with life.

IRM

www.scientificamerican.com...

“This is a milestone,” says Wojciech Zurek, a theoretical physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. “It confirms what many of us believe, but some continue to resist—that our universe is quantum to the core.”

www.nytimes.com...

In the quantum "microscale" world, objects can tunnel almost magically through impenetrable barriers. A single object can exist in a multiplicity of forms and places. In principle, two quantum-mechanically "entangled" objects can respond instantly to each other's experiences, even when the two objects are at opposite ends of the universe.

www.labyrinthina.com...

Another disguised many worlds theory, says Deutsch, is John Cramer's "transactional" interpretation in which information passes backwards and forwards through time. When you measure the position of an atom, it sends a message back to its earlier self to change its trajectory accordingly. But as the system gets more complicated, the number of messages explodes. Soon, says Deutsch, it becomes vastly greater than the number of particles in the Universe. The full quantum evolution of a system as big as the Universe consists of an exponentially large number of classical processes, each of which contains the information to describe a whole universe.
So Cramer's idea forces the multiverse on you, says Deutsch. So do other interpretations, according to Deutsch.

"Quantum theory leaves no doubt that other universes exist in exactly the same sense that the single Universe that we see exists," he says. "This is not a matter of interpretation. It is a logical consequence of quantum theory." Yet many physicists still refuse to accept the multiverse.

"People say the many worlds is simply too crazy, too wasteful, too mind-blowing," says Deutsch.

"But this is an emotional not a scientific reaction. We have to take what nature gives us."

reply to post by m0r1arty
Great thread. I agree with the OP 100%. However, I'm not so sure we aren't being visited by some sort of ET life, but I believe the vast majority of sightings are actually hoaxes or have more mundane misunderstood explanations. That doesn't mean I think every UFO sighting is swamp gas or weather balloons (and might I say, that joke is getting real old, true believers ). The UFO phenomena is a lot like the paranormal world... not a lot makes sense a lot of the times, which is why a lot of people are prone to look for 'mysterious' and irrational explanations.

reply to post by Balkan


What means "I believe", in parapsychology believable is possible
unbelievable is impossible, hence there are ETs+our own hyperproduction.

reply to post by m0r1arty
Hiya m0r, it's been a while

I entertain the possibility that some of the reported sightings 'of stuff' over the decades could be from 'elsewhere.' The location of 'elsewhere' is further down the 'to do' list than identifying what the heck has been flying in the skies and looking like technological craft.

Too many people leap to the conclusion of aliens and then play hopscotch all the way to where the aliens come from and who they don't like. They can have a straight-faced discussion about why the mantis and the Nordics don't get along...apparently the mantis never wipes its proboscis after sex and Nordics don't call back...

Others are convinced that '___' is somehow connecting us to lifeforms within the fabric of time/space. They often imply a belief that every damn thing that ever happens (in the entire world!) is there to advance their self-knowledge. EGO! 'Hey man, if you just meditate more often and totally talk about yourself all the time...dude, you'll see them too!'

Are UFOs demons or angels? Time-travellers or tourists from other dimensions? Some cynics of the ETH laugh at the notion of spanning the space between stars and become cheerleaders for inter-dimensional travel. 'Gimme a V..gimme an A...gimme an L...etc.' Last time I looked, both are liable to be incredibly expensive in resources and one is barely theoretical. It's like 'my hypothetical friend's dad can kick your hypothetical friend's dad's ass.'

A lot of these people are demonstrating belief systems, or worse, selling BS ideas to people who don't always know better. Either way, if anyone, from any side is offering definitives and conclusions it's worth being a bit wary of some of them and maybe laughing like a mad bastard at the others.

Like you, I don't believe UFOs are extraterrestrial in nature. On the other hand, I don't believe they aren't either. It's interesting to consider as many possibilities as we can.

reply to post by m0r1arty




Yes, ET's are inter-dimensional not extra-terrestrial beings and are spirits not physical in nature. Some people call them demons, satan, jinns etc. but they are the names of same inter-dimensional beings. The physical metal flying crafts working on anti gravity technology were developed by German scientists during the post world war II era, and they are in use ever since. But I think the technological knowledge for building such crafts came from those inter-dimensional beings. People like Dr. Hynek were specifically employed by the government for debunking what people call "UFO phenomenon" and later he found out what ET's are. So, it is evident that the govt. doesn't want the truth out. And I also think that those beings themselves don't want to reveal themselves.

Dr. Hynek also came to the conclusions that ET's are actually beings coming from other dimensions and I wholeheartedly agree with him on that, and I also think that the lights that we often see floating in the sky are not physical objects but spirits.

www.spotlightministries.org.uk...

So if it is unlikely that these things are from outer space, then where exactly do they come from? Dr J. Allen Hynek who until his death, was the world's leading authority on UFOs eventually abandoned the idea that these craft were of a tangible quality as we would understand it, calling it "the nuts and bolts theory". In 1976 he said: "There are just too many things going against this theory.

To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligence would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people." (Jacques Vallee, Revelations, p. 290). After 30 years of serious UFO research, Hynek finally adopted the theory that UFOs are from another dimension, or a parallel reality (Bob Larson, UFOs and the Alien Agenda, p. 93).

Their is a massive propaganda going on to label these spirit beings as UFO's coming from other planets or galaxies, to mislead people about what's really going on. So you see alien invasion movies and organization like SETI who have maligned this whole subject to such an extent, that many people who were sincerely trying to find out the truth about such phenomena have lost interest and are now accepting what govt. and dis-info agents, debunkers etc. are telling them i.e. it is science fiction. This type of desensitization is what the ruling elites want.