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Aliens have not contacted us, therefore theres nothing to disclose

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posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Scientists assume too much of what they don't know too.And I am not saying this because I KNOW, it is actually the opposite, I am humble enough to say I DO NOT KNOW, that is why you simply cannot go and take "sides" on this matter.

I see people in this same site saying they can't wait to meet their star brothers, as IF they knew that any alien race we'd come across would automatically be here for humanity's benefice. How arrogant is that?Are we all that special?
We could be just another race of the many they encountered, just like when you see a stranger on the street you could care less about.

People assume they would try to contact us, why would they want that?

People assume signaling "HEEEEY WE ARE HERE" is good. And even if you did and someone intercepted it, what makes you think they would want to respond?

People assume that advanced societies are necessarily democracies and republics, or even more advanced kinds of social structures we have not discovered yet , where there is only love and that such advanced beings would be here for any reason, EXCEPT resource exploring, enslavement, etc.

People also assume that advanced races can have an unlimited ammount of resources, because they assume that technology would allow that, as if they were magical beings that can pop resources out of their a**es.

Some people assume that spiritual and technological advancement are necessarily bound together, when that is not the case.

People also assume that we cannot watch nature in a smaller environment to predict what the consequences would be in a larger one.

Assumptions and more assumptions, that you see people actually believing in as if they were truths.

Food for thought?




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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It's gonna be hard to tell if the "aliens" are real aliens or a government dramatic presentation... If the aliens are aggressive and we get into a war with them, then they are probably fake.

I'd imagine it would be hard for a civilization to be a warrior civilization and evolve enough to go explore space.

We spend all our money killing each other and rebuilding the war torn areas...

A real alien culture would most likely be spiritually advanced... and not war-like in their thinking and behavior.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:15 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Not necessarily true... You are making those assumptions based on human progression. On the contrary... Different planets in different universes and even dimensions could be extremely different. CHemicals, Elements, Gravity and basic principal RuLes that Govern our understanding of matter may not apply. They could be beings that skipped to mechanical Phase and developed a unique technology... Maybe they have squishy bodies because the live in a zero g Conditions for most of their lives. Perhaps in like in independence day, they have bio mechanical suites or perhaps their are species that don't poses a physical body however they are comprised of energy... they have the abilty to jump into physical bodies and are even have constructed special bio-metric bodies or vessels that allows them to be anchored to our lower dimension to conduct studies.

Just because a random tribesmen in rural africa has never seen you or any person of a different race or skin color doesn't mean you don't exist.

Honestly The Government could lie and kill Or Perhaps evil alien or human organizations can keep things extraterrestrial vehicles etc. under wraps for their own agendas pretty easily that may not necessarily be because they think we can't handle the truth...

There are a thousand reasons why ranging from they know we are doomed when the space cruiser arrives at our planet in less than a year... Yeah we are protected under a galactic space empire protectorate... however once we advanced to a certain level we are responsible for our own planet... etc. etc. etc.

Since when has any government been 100% truthful with its people. It's a matter of national security. i mean If I knew a death cruiser was about to blow up the world I would go nutz... I would take whatever I wanted... live it up... Punch out and beat up people I didn't like... what were they going to do about it it will be all done with tuesday.... Thinking about this I would have to say we deserve to know the truth but the reality is that the majority of humans on the planet are evil morons... Some wouldn't freak out where others will with the logic... hey I'll do whatever I want to no matter how evil because in the end we all are going to die anyways in a few months



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by illuminatednotilluminati
akiens dont contact using radio waves.. lol that is way to slow... they contact using water look that up


YEah sending out radio waves are pretty useless if you can communicate through telepathy through a hive mind StaTE. They would develop a technology that they wouldn't have a need for or that didn't suit their physical structures and abilities.

S.E.T.I. etc. are just a craps shoot...



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Im not trying to second guess anyones motivations. I simply used techniques that our scientists use today, to come up with a possible alternate hypothesis.

Whether you want to admit it or not its a possability. So is most of the theorys that people have been putting forward here.

The reason your argument or theory falls short is because your second guessing that Aliens will be able to recieve a radio signal or maybe transmitting one. Then our signal has'nt travelled far enough through space to reach enough significant planets. Again guessing that the planets that this signal has reached, could'nt support life in any way.

Im not looking to ridicule you in any way. Theres plenty of people doing that on this thread and given your claim to be the smartest man alive. Im not surprised. I only wanted to put forward an alternate explanation as to how they could have found out theres life on Earth without the need for any kind or radio signal. Which i have done and to use your words "you dont know what to say about that"

Enough said.

Good luck with the rest of this thread because your going to be a busy boy.


edit on 17/4/11 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 04:47 AM
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Getting heated here, so I'll wade in. Im in the middle since I can see compelling arguments both for and against visitation. My key points would be:
For:
1. Historical drawings right back to the cave paintings that depict what look like aliens and spacecraft. It is not logical to assume that a cave man looked out of his entrance saw a wildebeest and drew it perfectly and then decided to draw alongside an abstract that just happened to look like a spaceship! He draw what he saw, though deal with it archeologists!
2. Witness statements from credible sources. Pilots, retired army generals etc.
3. Crop circles of massive complexity appearing within hours adjacent to busy roads and buildings with 24hr security.
Against:
1. No physical evidence that you can put in a museum for all to see and interpret. Perfectly valid point.
2. Modern technology with exponential growth in recording technology and yet we still only have shaky night time pictures with bright dots a few pixels wide.
Mistakes:
1. Humans would panic if we found out. Absolute rubbish. Given the amount of sci-fi we have been entertained by it is more likely people would die in the crush to meet them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. The speed of light. Well this only applies if the current laws of physics are set in stone. we know that this is not the case. Physics cannot explain why matter is as it is (the standard model being incomplete and waiting for the Higgs). Physics can't explain where 90% of the universe is (dark energy dark matter). Physics can't explain gravity. Physics can't explain magnetism (it tries with an approximation!). So there is absolutely no reason to dismiss an ability to transfer information at worst and matter at best between two points faster than light would travel (warped space, wormholes, alternate dimensions etc). Hence all arguments about TV and radio waves is mute.
3. Never assume aliens behave like humans. Never assume aliens don't behave like humans. As somebody once said in a Steven Seagal movie "Assumption is the mother of all f....ups".

Put all that together and there is nothing concrete either way, It's all down to belief.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by Mari4199

1) Who are you to decide what is the most likely thing an alien would do? Being an alien means having an alien brain, or what passes for one, and with that alien brain comes alien thought processes. Not to mention that the society of the alien may be immensely different than our own further heightening the gap between our ways of thinking. When it comes right down to it, You have no damn idea what an alien would think.


That's exactly true i have no idea and neither do you. But i think it's more important to emphasise there's no reason to think aliens have visited us. The bottom line is we haven't found any compelling evidence of any life beyond earth but we're looking.


2) Aliens as machines hmmm? I agree it is a possibility. But that one argument you made also refutes another argument you made about how far they would have to come. Do you not think that if they are advanced enough to become cybernetic creatures that they are also advanced enough to find a way to surmount the huge distances between there worlds and ours?


We'll what would a thinking machine want...i mean maybe they'd hang around their native planet but probably not. I can imagine the machines would look for energy because in the end what is important in life for a thinking machine....and it would be matter and energy. So let's say they do want energy and matter no matter what, well that would give scientists an incentive to look for places where the universe has a high concentration of matter and energy - black holes. If you were a machine this is just the kind of place you'd want to go to, but i don't see any real reason to come here if you're a machine.

I think this is a more likely scenario because i do think you might have a winner take all situation here, in other words that one machine will dominate a very large region of space - maybe hundreds of light years around simply because the evolution of machines is so enormously faster the biology that what ever machine started first has such a lead that nothing can ever catch up to it.I'm not going to go into the socially of thinking machines but i suggest to you that you might want to think about it.



3) Aliens have never come here before? I am not going to call you ignorant. I am just going to point you to the internet, where you may peruse thousands of paintings and carvings by ancient peoples depicting what are clearly spacecraft. You HAVE heard the term before... "If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.". There are also many written accounts that clearly are not describing terrestrial craft or beings. I suggest you go and learn more before you start spouting space taking rubbish on this site.


Like i said before, where's the scientific evidence?


4) It also seems you have an intrinsic trust in governmental organizations and the government. I feel sad for you. Let me name some things for your education. MK-Ultra, Project Grudge, The Condon committee, Watergate, Iran/Contra, Weapons of mass destruction. Any of those phrases or names ring a bell?


I feel sad for you that in order to believe in aliens you've had to become paranoid about the government. If aliens contacting us already then it wouldn't just be America but all countries covering it up.


5) Your math needs work. There are many more stars within range capable of supporting habitable life than you stated in your meager 2000. Examine the math in REAL scientific papers before you go off on a rant.


O but my math is based on findings by SETI so don't dis what you don't understand.
edit on 17-4-2011 by andre18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Then explain this vidio from Nasa?this is not a fake we are surrounded by ufo's.and you and i do not have the stuff it takes to communacate with these folks or beings! but i bet the milatary does. and they are not going to tell you.watch sts-75 or sts 80 i tried to link but it did not work. maybe when i am done getting treatment i will try again.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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Im making an assumption here that all on this thread are familiar with Dr Steven Greer and the Disclosure Project! The director of the project Dr Greer was previously a respected surgeon.

There are so many top security cleared ex gov, ex intell, ex mill ex other involved in this project that have stated that they have experiences of secret projects, Aliens on earth, UFO's, advanced technology etc etc and are prepared to swear this in front of congress.

Surely, we are to believe them are we not? What motive would all these intelligent people have for conspiring in a massive hoax?

Michio Kaku stated recently that 5% of UFO's are for real and cannot be explained off as natural phenomena. He also stated that later this year we would know much more.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by woodwytch
Fair enough but what about the people who are not diagnosed with sleep paralysis ... how do you explain their 'experiences' ?


I can only guess it's because they haven't been diagnosed yet.

science knows best




How do you know that sleeping pills don't just mask the memory ... it doesn't mean the events have stopped ... just that you might not remember them !


Because that's not sleeping pills do, they just cause you to be drowsy. If you want to debate the effects of sleeping pills how bout you research whey they do and if you find that they can cause memory lose well then we'll have something to talk about otherwise you're making up ideas for the sake of it.


And how do you explain the reports of UFO sightings/interaction by people who have a professional knowledge and experience of things that are 'usual' in the sky ?


That's irrelevant because all they have seen are un identified flying objects, not alien craft. You can't confuse things people can't identify as aliens automatically, just because they can't be identified. That's insane.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


If any of these people's testimonies were taken seriously by the scientific community then scientists would be following them up on their claims but they don't because when these people claim these things, they don't say "hey let's use what we now know about the aliens we've encountered to improve our understanding of the universe"

It's completely useless testimony that tells us nothing other then that they believe they've encountered something no one else can determine.
edit on 17-4-2011 by andre18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 05:58 AM
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General Question... HOW DO YOU KNOW? THere is ZERO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR IDEAS. YOU CAN'T SImply say there is you have to provide references and Detailed proof. Otherwise you can really put down anybody else theories based on your personal experience and use of google. You can Not fall back on the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence especially since you are not privy to all of the data collected and the analysis. DO yo honestly believe that if any government Obtains any evidence of alien beings they wot hide it. They keep terrestrial things from the common man. Sure you have the perceived right to obtain documents through FOIA however you'll never receive any accurate data... seriously how would you know and who would you complain to?



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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You can ONLY speak for yourself on this topic. For YOU they may have never been here but there are some of us among you who have had contact all through out our lives.
I hope someday you get to meet one of them.
You will be changed forever.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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I agree with the OP. I think that there are life forms out there, infact...I'm certain of it. Possibly even within our own solar system. However I do not believe that there is anything intelligent within our reach and I do not believe that we've ever been visited.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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Did any one see my post on systemic colonization? Rationally because of this its amazing humans even evolved here without earth becoming an alien colony long before we evolved.
edit on 17-4-2011 by TheKnave because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


Oh for goodness sake. OP isn't saying aliens aren't real because I know he does believe they are. The analogy is more like no one's ever knocked on his door or left a letter for him to find at his home. The aliens are out there - probably millions of lightyears out there, OP's post is saying they've never been here - or if they have, they've left no evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

People see things and not knowing what they are, they jump to conclusions that they must be alien. UFO and UAP (unexplained aerial phenomenon) don't mean "Extraterrestrial Craft".

reply to post by michaelknives52
 



HOW DO YOU KNOW? THere is ZERO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR IDEAS.


Ever heard of the Null-hypothesis? When some idea is put forward on no evidential basis whatsoever, there's no obligation for anyone to accept it. When "theories" like alien visitation are spouted without justification, the reasonable response is skepticism.




Otherwise you can really put down anybody else theories based on your personal experience and use of google.


They're not even theories. This is the shooting down. Calling something a theory, doesn't make it a theory. It's only a theory when your hypothesis explains all the evidence and makes accurate predictions. Alien visitation "theories" are speculations at best, pure fantasy from a realists point of view.
edit on 17-4-2011 by Welfhard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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It's not reasonable that the aliens are going to be soft little squishy grey guys, they're going to be some sort of machine intelligence.
#

Brilliant, just brilliant. Some kind of machine intelligence? Where do you get these ideas? How can you come on to the forum and say 'everyone, there's no cover up cause seti would know and if there were aliens they'd be clever machines' ... brash deluded nonsense IMO

Thundersmurf
Peace



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by Numb2itall
You can ONLY speak for yourself on this topic. For YOU they may have never been here but there are some of us among you who have had contact all through out our lives.
I hope someday you get to meet one of them.
You will be changed forever.


are you seriously suggestign you have met aliens?



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