The Fine Line Between Trolling And De-Bunking?

The first question is...Why?

It seems that there are some people on ATS (actually the net) that do nothing but troll around, pop into a thread and immediately try to derail the topic by using the term ‘De-Bunked’. Closer to a troll in my opinion.

But here’s the thing...Why?

People sometimes spend a lot of time formulating a point, writing, editing etc, only to have someone come in and say something like: ‘You have no idea what you are talking about!’ or even ‘This subject has been debunked before’, without adding evidence to the post.

What is the point of all this?

They know that it just causes frustration and starts flame wars. But that’s my guess. This is what they enjoy for some reason. A lack of social skills and too much time spent as king of their own domain in their parent’s basement would be my guess.

I find these people amusing to say the least. So many pop up on every thread from Nuclear Physics to Astral Travel, Plastic Surgery to Cob Salads and attempt to convince others that the subject or OP has been de-bunked...all without leaving behind a single shred of evidence or even a link to the supposed fact.

It’s just an air of superiority akin to ‘I am an expert on this so you must believe me’.

Some people have patterns also. They peek into ANY thread, regardless of the subject and offer their ‘expert’ opinions.

Now, there is also the other kind that pop up in topics so quickly, they are completely transparent and:

1. Need to be in the lime light because they can’t create their own or...
2. They are working for you know who. (Can you say Shill?) That’s another thread.

Next, there are those that apparently can see into the future...amazing!

They absolutely know that there will not be a NWO, ET Disclosure, WW3, Nuclear Disaster, Volcano, Disease Outbreak and so on. These people simply must set the World straight with their expertise and insight on every subject known to mankind.

I only ask why are you even here on ATS? What’s your point? If you know everything on ATS is a hoax, why would you even want to visit?

And these ones:

‘You guys are all nuts! Wackos! Go get your tinfoil hats! Etc. Does this sound familiar?

The interesting thing about these guys is that you will notice their lack of spelling skills and simple sentence structure. With Names like: I am the truth...Beware!

Most seem to be about 22 yrs old going on 12. My writing isn’t the best, but I at least try.

Then there these other ones that are intelligent, skillful and well spoken/written etc. These are the ones that rant on for half a page, quoting ‘facts’ and using statements like “Studies done at Cambridge 2 yrs ago have proven....blah, blah, blah”. And then never leave a link to a source! If it's a fact...prove it!

And finally, there are the legitimate de-bunkers that have proof! These guys have my respect as well as that of many others. We need you!

So, what’s my point?

Only that if someone can legitimately de-bunk something, then by all means do it! It’s needed and if we didn’t have it, how would we ever get to the truth? But do it with the exact standards and approach that you expect of the posters. That is, with facts, references, docs, links or whatever else there may be.

Doing it with rudeness to the OP does nothing but anger a lot of the other readers and actually lends no credibility to your point. Many don't even want to read the post so it really works against the de-bunker.

No one liners, insults, name calling...just facts. How else will the rest of us know what is the actual truth?

IMO...De-bunking is just as important as forming theories, ideas or opinions. But to truly be a master and to gain respect, the De-Bunker has the burden of proof just as much as or sometimes even more so than the OP. There’s a fine line between trolling and De-bunking.

Anyway, rant over. And before anyone asks, I have a pretty good idea of what kind of #### I just threw at the fan... Just had to get it out there and would also like to see if I am of the minority in my thoughts on the subject.

One poster (CitizenNum28711!) has suggested Narcissism in America as the reason for repeat offenders. Good Point IMO

Any other input is appreciated. What do you think?

PS. I think we are all a little guilty of popping in to a thread so way out there that you can’t help but leave a little something like ‘Seriously????

But sometimes, there is nothing else you can say.

PSS. I am tired of writing the word 'De-Bunker'

Thanks!

Let them type as they will. I think most people on here can mentally sort through quality, well-cited and researched posts and the nay-sayers/debunkers/whatever posts that don't contribute. I don't like to use the word troll...it's definitely overused and a catch-all without any specific meaning.

In short, ignore them.

Originally posted by BenIndaSun
Let them type as they will. I think most people on here can mentally sort through quality, well-cited and researched posts and the nay-sayers/debunkers/whatever posts that don't contribute. I don't like to use the word troll...it's definitely overused and a catch-all without any specific meaning.

In short, ignore them.

I quite agree with the word troll. Just no other word out there yet.

And yes, it's best to ignore but sometimes it just gets annoying trying to scroll thru the thread to find the real content.

reply to post by jude11


jude11 I think you state a lot of valid points and good observations. No doubt the 'net is swarming with ITG's with nothing better to do than rain on someone's parade. A few sites I know are dedicated to just posting nonsense and that's okay, that is their thing.

We never know who is poking at the keyboard in a 'anyone can play' sandbox, but some posts are more transparent than others when it comes to reading between the lines. I think the overall Internet experience has to be taken with a large grain of salt.

When I was a 'net noob I didn't know any sites to visit and I was feeling my way around. I remember most of the sites I use to find were heavily populated with people who were obsessed with their love of the Lord. Those that were not completely focused on religious beliefs from the get-go would instead work it into the typed conversation in short time. There was a time I thought the whole 'net was wall to wall true believers.

jude11 I think the anonymity the Internet provides allows people to sometimes indulge their darker sides. I wonder how many people come home frustrated from work and vent their steam on the first poster they feel they can rip apart. Maybe it's better they use words here instead of hitting the wife or kicking the dog.

There are some people who post when they are drunk or high. Those communications probably make the most sense to the author.

I've been surprised by some responses people have written in ATS threads. I replied to an OP who felt Hollywood was evil incarnate and all in the business were involved in occult rituals. I was wondering what led the OP to this conclusion so I asked. I was willing to accept they read something, someone told them a story, whatever. Instead of sharing the impetus of their viewpoint the OP spewed venom about me being closed minded. So much for growth through sharing.

I'm sure I've probably handled some online interfacing less well than I could have. Everybody has a bad day once in a while. And sometimes IMHO its difficult to express one's self - actually, I always feel that communicating is a challenge.

Thanks for this post, I enjoyed reading and responding.

jude11 I think the anonymity the Internet provides allows people to sometimes indulge their darker sides. I wonder how many people come home frustrated from work and vent their steam on the first poster they feel they can rip apart. Maybe it's better they use words here instead of hitting the wife or kicking the dog.

There are some people who post when they are drunk or high. Those communications probably make the most sense to the author.

2 good points here and many of us are guilty of drunk posting.

As I mentioned, I don't mind the De-Bunkers. They are the other side and we need that to get the truth. An intelligent De-Bunker can lead a discussion to where it needs to go.

Thanks for your post.

A possible reason?

Conversational narcissism is a term used by sociologist Charles Derber in his book, The Pursuit of Attention: Power and Ego in Everyday Life.

Derber observed that the social support system in America is relatively weak, and this leads people to compete mightily for attention. In social situations, they tend to steer the conversation away from others and toward themselves. "Conversational narcissism is the key manifestation of the dominant attention-getting psychology in America," he wrote. "It occurs in informal conversations among friends, family and coworkers. The profusion of popular literature about listening and the etiquette of managing those who talk constantly about themselves suggests its pervasiveness in everyday life."

No link. It's under 'narcissism' on wikipedia.

Originally posted by CitizenNum287119327
A possible reason?

Conversational narcissism is a term used by sociologist Charles Derber in his book, The Pursuit of Attention: Power and Ego in Everyday Life.

Derber observed that the social support system in America is relatively weak, and this leads people to compete mightily for attention. In social situations, they tend to steer the conversation away from others and toward themselves. "Conversational narcissism is the key manifestation of the dominant attention-getting psychology in America," he wrote. "It occurs in informal conversations among friends, family and coworkers. The profusion of popular literature about listening and the etiquette of managing those who talk constantly about themselves suggests its pervasiveness in everyday life."

No link. It's under 'narcissism' on wikipedia.

AHA!

Now this is a good point. I'll add a question to my OP.

Thanks!

You debunked my thread.

Originally posted by boncho
You debunked my thread.

lol...That was a good one from 'The Onion'...Didn't have to debunk it. They are the pros.

Sure was a good find tho.

Thanks and yes, we are all a little mischievous at times. I'm mostly referring to the habitual.

My comment in there was for the dude in the article....ya had to laugh at that one.

I am pretty new here and I am already frustrated what you have mentioned. There is this attitude that some posters have in which they know it all and no one else knows anything. Also I have seen certain posters that do nothing but ridicule other posters. One in particular had never started a thread. I just flag them and move on. ATS, IMHO needs to start banning some of these "posters".

reply to post by jude11
To address your OP. I understand your point of view. And while I hope I present information for people to further look at, when I am presenting something, sometimes my head is not there and I try to point out another side, or a reason why I may feel an issue is nonsense without going to proper measure.

I may slip into your definition sometimes. On the other hand, there are people that no matter what you present to them, they continue to just ignore everything. And it makes it frustrating for people who are trying to sort out all the information.

Classic example: FBI Files If you look at all the effort IsaacKoi put into his posts, then look at some of the responses... I'm surprised he didn't bash his head off the wall. He went further by creating a full thread on it. Here.

reply to post by boncho


Actually, I have read a lot of your posts and you rant and wander as much as I do and many others. Comes with being passionate about something.

We post, we poke fun and we move on.

All good.

We post, we poke fun and we move on.

All good.

If only more would be the same, a little humor is not a bad thing and at times does bring something to the table.