reply to post by sharpy777
Originally posted by sharpy777
Creation is true but Religion has corrupted the logical truth of creation.
Well, let's see if you can back it up.
Evolution is also true, but due to narrow minded views fails to answer every question about the origin of our universe.
Evolution is the change in allele frequency over successive generations in a gene pool. It's a theory of biology that explains the diversity of life,
not something that's supposed to explain the origin of the universe.
Together they provide a total unified answer to everything.
Note: Im not religious. I am attempting to convey the logical understanding i have of God. The God i believe in does not watch over us, or intervene
given prayer, or create life as we know it in an instant. My idea of God is the intelligent design behind the universe, where life is left to fend for
itself within that design.
So you're a deist...I hope you can back up your whole 'intelligent design' idea.
On the other side of the arguement, Evolution has one goal and that is to proove beyond a doubt that what Religion teaches about life's beginnings is
false through utilisation of scientific measurement, theory and observation.
No, evolution has no goal beyond to explain the diversification of life. It doesn't give a damn about what religions say on the subject. If there
were a religion that actually stated things as the evidence demonstrates then evolution would be in agreement.
Evolution is primarily geared to explain how life began to change at the begining, how species were able to adapt and result in what we see on earth
when we observe the 100,000's of species. Evolution by itself can never accept Creation from the Religious view.
...there are people who think that evolution is a part of the 'intelligent design'. If that's where you're going with this, I'm going to feel
like I've wasted a bit of my time because you're far from the first to try to reconcile things as such.
If we remove Religion from the equation for a moment and simply focus on Creation in its raw element, we can understand that the true God is the
I'm sorry...but...what? Last I checked, the universe lacks conscious thought or any other attribute given to any deity. To redefine 'god' as the
universe is to merely throw a label on to the universe.
Our universe exists inside an infinite vast emptiness, endless and desolate void. The universe in its physical form is God and is also the design of
God inside and out. The stars, our planet, life itself.. Is the embodiment of God's design.
...alright...where is the evidence that anything is designed? Or are you just going to make the statement that it is without backing it up?
How does this tie into Evolution? Well my belief is simply that God is the logical source of everything. God is the platform for the universe to
exist, which is designed to flow through time and through this understanding we can see that the universe is capable of producing life in the rarest
of circumstances. Life is an integral part of God's purpose, but God does not choose when and where life starts, God does not directly influence or
control anything on earth, does not decide when mankind will perish and ultimately does not have a direct concious real time connection to life on
earth. Time only exists within the physical universe.. Outside of which where time is not present, God gave design to the universe so that it already
encorporated what is neccessary for life to begin and grow. We are merely a result of this design having worked as planned.
Dammit, I wasted my time. So you're just moving the goal posts back as far as possible. You're redefining a deity so that there is a universe that
exists as if there isn't a deity...yet you're still claiming that one exists. It's like I'm claiming that an all-power, all-knowing being exists
and its sole purpose to prevent me from having conclusive proof of its existence.
The concious intelligence of God is represented by the harmony and brilliance of our universe, everything we understand can be viewed as one of many
functions/aspects of what/who God is.
...including the harmonious collisions of galaxies, black holes consuming stars, supernovae, etc....
Again, how is this a demonstration of conscious intelligence?
1) You need to let go of the idea that God can directly influence life on earth.
Well, if its conscious and its everything...then it should be able to. And what about those that sort of want proof of a deity before accepting it in
the first place?
2) It is the idea that God acts like an overseer for his creation that is wrong.
Or maybe it's the idea that god exists...
3) The design is God at the begining and the end, so any idea of an overseer is simply the ability to recognise the design flowing with the dimension
So you're just relabeling the universe and its supposed design (which you've yet to demonstrate) as "god"? I'm sorry, but how do you make that
Arguements against this idea:
Evolution is true but God does not have a role to play? Evolution can be prooven through observation, clearly there is truth behind the theory. But
claiming Evolution is possible because the Universe let it happen, not God, is like saying the Universe has always been, the laws of physics are
permanently embeded and the Big Bang simply released it all into a flurry of expanding gas, matter and energy, creating space and time and the
universe we witness today.
It's not that the universe 'let' it happen, it's more like it being a necessary consequence of the universe. And what you've described so far?
That's about what the evidence reflects.
This is wrong because in a void it is impossible for a singularity to be present without purpose or origin.
So you've just knocked out modern cosmology, good job on doing that. I'm sorry, but where is your evidence for this claim? Why could the singularity
not have been there in some form or another prior to the big bang without purpose?
Beyond our universe is a void, subtract the current universe and you are left with nothing, for anything to begin you need a source and you need
Again, where is your evidence? And if the universe needs a source, why does the deity need a source?
The prime mover argument is sort of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "All
things need a cause...therefore something that didn't need a
cause was the first cause"
You create a universally applicable statement and then you create a single exception.
How about the source of everything was everything? And again, why does there need to be a purpose?
If we follow evolution in its current form, we blindly believe that the Big Bang was present in a void with no reason or purpose.
Again, why must there be reason or purpose? Why are you hung up on this?
Essentially by that token we say the Big Bang originates from no where other than itself. This is an illogical loop of a belief, one which claims the
Big Bang is the beginning and the Big Bang is the source of its own being. This is wrong, this can not be true, this is impossible.
I'm sorry, but that's not actually how it is. Matter/energy are believed to have always been in the universe. We have no evidence to state that they
have not always existed, nor can we think of a way that they could come into existence without speculating something that has no evidential backing.
And you know what the conclusion is to what caused the big bang? We're not sure
. But at least the scientists are working on it instead of
pushing back the goal posts. You're merely creating something that must have also caused itself in place of having the universe cause itself. Wow.
To sumarise, Evolution alone accounts for the life on earth in its superb variety, but fails to address the origin of the universe which set the
foundation for life to even be possible.
To summarize, circuit theory alone accounts for the activity of electricity, but it fails to address the origin of the universe which set the
foundation for electricity to even be possible.
I'm sorry, but that's just damn silly. Evolution doesn't have to explain the origin of the universe, just like circuit theory doesn't.
Creation is not logical from the Religious viewpoint, it is only logical when God is understood to be the universe itself, which at its beginning had
already set in place the design which allows for the seeding of life at a point in time when life supporting conditions are achieved.
And you've really not proven anything except for a lack of understanding of a few things here and there.