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Founders of top poker Web sites indicted

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posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Chipkin9
reply to post by jrod

I used to play online and I guarantee it's rigged. I'm not one to toot my own horn, but I am a very good player. I have finished 1st in numerous large field freerolls and know hot to play all the forms of poker. Day in and out you can see how bigger stacks at the table and in the tournies suckout 80% of the time with crap hands (And playing like an idiot know doubt) because they know how the "RNG" favours them...I myself have found myself flawless in tourneys, hitting everything and sucking out the majority of hands when I get good prices to see turn and river.

I have got 17 hands saved on my comp from the last tourney I played at on full tilt, and there was this one guy who was going all-in preflop EVERY hand. Out of all those hands he got called about 10-12 times and won 9-11 of them!!! Each time with the worst hand, I will gladly upload them for you to view. That is a huge statictical flaw, and I care not to argue my point about the site not being "Random" at all...Because You and I both will not listen, so we'll agree to disagree!

Again if you wish for me to upload the said hands I will!
edit on 16-4-2011 by Chipkin9 because: (no reason given)

Pokerstars software is checked by a third party entity that has no care one way or the other they just get paid to make sure its fair to all. Like has been said previously they make piles of money off the rake and don't care one bit who wins or loses. Same as the ponies. Tracks take their percent off the top and pays out the rest to whoever's nag comes in. Thats why I use pokerstars.............well used to use em.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:00 PM
From what I've read from other forums is people from around the world is the cannot withdraw their funds from their accounts. Those in the US with money in their accounts may never see those funds again. The amount of money 'in play' at those sights is billions and billions combined. The FBI and US government have pulled off one of the largest heists ever.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 10:22 PM
WOW Totalitarian! This is almost as bad as Australia banning the new Mortal Kombat video game lol

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 10:54 PM
already posted this before OP, but guess people liked this one more

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 11:15 PM
Contacted a friend who is an attorney who I hoped could help me get my 25 grand out of this mess and he in turn is having a buddy of his contact me on monday.

I swear on every holy book out there that you will se my face on every news outlet there is before I am robbed of this much money by my own government.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 11:15 PM
This. Really pisses me off! It was my understanding several years ago, when the government tried to ban online gaming, that it was for US based sites. All US members were banned from Paradise poker. I know for a fact Absolute is located in Iceland, so what's the big deal about Americans wanting to play?

I will gladly join in and protest. This is not about gambling, it is about tournament play. Big difference.

Does anyone know the status of Bo Dog poker?


posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 12:50 AM
This is happening because Daniel Tzvetkoff an Australian guy who was helping these online gambling companies siphon money through banks into offshore accounts so they didn't have to pay taxes, etc is now an FBI informant. Daniel Tzvetkoff was facing like 75 years jail time and in exchange for his freedom, he is revealing now these big companies launder money.

Daniel Tzvetkoff was very good at hiding the origins of money and reverse engineering transactions so these companies could get away with it. Funningly enough, a guy at my work went to school and was friends with this guy a few years back.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 08:06 AM

Originally posted by MidnightTide
already posted this before OP, but guess people liked this one more

You sure about that??
You should have another look.
Your thread was posted at an earlier time, but the next day.
21 hours after this one.

reply to post by Becoming

Originally posted by Becoming
I swear on every holy book out there that you will se my face on every news outlet there is before I am robbed of this much money by my own government.

Obviously this is easy for me to say, because I am not in your situation. If I was in your shoes, I would be freaking out. On the announcement that you see when you first open the FTP Client, it says, "FTP has decided that it must suspend 'real money' play within the United States until this case is resolved. For more information, please call +442032877138

On the smaller announcement window that pops up, it says, "We would like to assure you that your funds are safe and secure. Please contact for more information."

I wouldn't actually say this sounds good, but it does seem promising that you will likely be able to get your money back. Have you tried that email or phone number?

edit on 4/17/11 by BrokenCircles because: added reply to Becoming

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:20 AM
Well, my 2 cents goes like this.

The US is full of idiots desperately trying to give their money away. Lots of money. For this reason, doing business in the US is a privilege. It doesn't come without a price. Nobody should get free range access to our consumer base, it's like shooting fish in a barrel and fish ain't free.

If you decide to do business with someone who thinks they have found a loophole around paying US taxes for doing biz in the US, I have very little sympathy for you. Find somewhere else to play. Keep in mind I don't think they are going to keep anyone's money. And go ahead and blame the government, protest if you want...see how far that gets you.

If they can find a way to cough up a TON of taxes, then good on them, let them continue. Everyone got their cups but they ain't chipped in.

I might be a little biased...all the self-proclaimed "poker pros" I know IRL are on welfare. LOL.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Tharsis
If they can find a way to cough up a TON of taxes, then good on them, let them continue.

Yeah, 'cuz we all know that every single penny of tax money is used for the benefit of the citizens, and to improve the communities.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 07:02 PM
reply to post by Tharsis

So where exactly do you draw the line between having to pay taxes and not? Every international, ecommerce business that makes money off a US citizen deserves to be taxed? You seem to hold the same view as the USG, perhaps it is time to revaluate. You're biased against people on welfare but don't seem to realize the USG just made tens of thousands of people unemployed.
edit on 17-4-2011 by KnowledgeIsPowre because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by KnowledgeIsPowre because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 05:27 AM
Thousands of people just lost their jobs and means of income, truly disgusting.
The US government is basically looking for free money because of their incredible debt. Its mind blowing how such a lawsuit can even happen. Whats next? The drinking age is 21 in the US, do they also have the right to sue Heineken for serving an 18 year old a drink in The Netherlands, where that is legal?
I really dont understand how they can sue and arrest people/companies that are not based in the united states, if somebody could tell me how that's possible I would appreciate it.
They should be targeting the banks and third party processors that willingly processed transfers of funds used for gambling. (playing online poker is not illegal as a lot of people seem to think, it is only the transfer of money being used for gambling that is illegal)

Supposedly now they are seeking assistance from interpol to apprehend some of the people:

Massive coverage continued over the weekend of the US Department of Justice actions against executives associated with Pokerstars, Full Tilt Poker, Absolute Poker & (see previous bulletins), with reports in the Los Angeles Times & the Financial Times that Interpol may be called upon to assist in pursuing defendants residing outside the USA. On Friday the Manhattan U.S. Attorney unsealed indictments that include very serious banking offences, naming 11 defendants including Isai Scheinberg & Paul Tate of PokerStars, Raymond Bitar & Nelson Burtnick of Full Tilt Poker, Scott Tom & Brent Beckley (Absolute Poker) & payment processors Ryan Lang, Ira Rubin, Bradley Franzen, Chad Elie & John Campos. The indictment alleges: "As charged, these defendants concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some U.S. banks & effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits." The indictment seeks $3 billion in money laundering penalties & forfeiture from the defendants, who's companies are all based outside US jurisdiction.

posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 07:17 AM
If you were into online poker, now looks like a good time to invest in internet service providers or hosting services in places outside the U.S. (think VPN), along with banking and accounts not in the country either. This is probably a boon for IT in many small countries friendly to such practices.

Me, I could care less. But if corporations do stuff like this all the time, then those who are clever and can call bluffs (like you'd think many poker players are) should be able to figure out similar methods and schemes to get around governmental obstructions.

The only people that have had their online poker stopped are those unwilling to go through the risk or the extra bother.
I suppose it sucks if you had a decent established account though.

posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 07:21 AM
Party Bwin stock has risen over 40% now since this has happened. Looks like people didnt waste any time investing in the potential next big site where a lot of people may move.

posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 08:32 AM
I was hoping for some more news or an update yesterday, so far nothing. Seems like this story is already forgotten by those who dont play poker. The USA has become a sad place for freedom.

posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 08:47 AM
Dedicated to the poker website guys

posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 07:05 PM
You can follow all the latest updates about the situation on twitter or on The PPA website.

A few videos from The PPA.

posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 02:27 PM
This can't possibly last forever...

- these sites just lost about 65% of their userbase and revenue, but...
- because they retained 35%, they must continue to support and develop, therefor...
- it behooves them to do whatever possible to get that business back online, so...
- what it all boils down to is our boys (the Banksters) don't have their hand in a very BIG pot, and they hate that, so...
- either tax the #ers and let's move on, or...
- at least make it legal in Vegas, Atlantic City, etc. thru New Software tied to old/legal Casinos (already paying taxes), or
- we'll all just start playing thru proxy servers or whatever some brilliant minds will come up with to mask/bounce IP addresses, or whatever...

There's too much money to be made by the world's richest and stupidest citizens to not capitalize on the revenue generated by online poker.

This will be over when Uncle Sam (the Banksters) figure out how to get their cut. Period.

edit on 4/20/2011 by SquirrelNutz because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:38 AM
We are allowed access to our accounts to get money out on Pokerstars and Full Tilt.

U.S. Department of Justice Rightly Answers Poker Players’ Demand to Return their Money

WASHINGTON, DC. (April 20, 2011) – John Pappas, Executive Director of the Poker PlayersAlliance (PPA), the leading poker grassroots advocacy group with more than one million members nationwide, issued the below statement on the agreement between the Department of Justice and online poker operators Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars to give American poker players access to their money in their accounts.

“The poker players have spoken, and it seems the U.S. Government has heard their cries. But players are still in pain. While today’s action allows players on two of the three online poker sites to access their funds, this is just a small victory in the ongoing fight to protect Americans’ rights to play poker online. Even with today’s announcement, millions of Americans are being denied their hobby, avocation and in many cases their livelihood because they remain unable to play poker on the Internet.

“Over the past few days, PPA members sent more than 65,000 emails and letters, and made thousands of phone calls to the DoJ, the Administration and Congress demanding access to the money in their online accounts and condemning the DoJ’s declaration of war on poker.[ editby]edit on 21-4-2011 by InvisibleObserver because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:41 AM
Please excuse me while I bend over once more to take that giant red, white and blue **** up my ***.

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