God is wanting me to go to hell by design..and potentially you.

reply to post by snowspirit

Hell makes no sense, but if it turns out to be real, see you all there......
At least he keeps the heat on...

haha, ye know.... If hell is real it sounds like a party to me... I mean, its always warm... Lots of cool people down there with great stories im sure.

As long as someone brings some beer, sign me up!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by snowspirit

 

Hell makes no sense, but if it turns out to be real, see you all there......
At least he keeps the heat on...

haha, ye know.... If hell is real it sounds like a party to me... I mean, its always warm... Lots of cool people down there with great stories im sure.

As long as someone brings some beer, sign me up!

We might do better with coffee and liquors, the beer might get too warm
At least someone would always have a light.........

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by snowspirit

 

Hell makes no sense, but if it turns out to be real, see you all there......
At least he keeps the heat on...

haha, ye know.... If hell is real it sounds like a party to me... I mean, its always warm... Lots of cool people down there with great stories im sure.

As long as someone brings some beer, sign me up!

We might do better with coffee and liquors, the beer might get too warm

At least someone would always have a light.........

Sh!t i didn't think about that no cold beer?!?! hmm...

Better get my bible out

God/Tao/The Universe/Infinity/Whatever word you want to call it doesn't want you to go to hell, and in fact doesn't say there is any hell (as commonly understood).

Men who want to control people want you to believe in hell and that you will go there. EDIT: Or they want you to believe there is no heaven. The end result is the same. Control under the illusion of freedom.

Once you realize Hell exists only in the mind (as does Heaven), then you can go back and read those books chock full of awesome metaphor for mathematics, consciousness, and nature in a new light. But yes, it requires not reading the King James and beyond versions at face value (those are political propaganda). At least not at first until you have learned enough to pick up on the *real* message intended behind the literal words.

Go read the Tao Te Ching, Buddha (not necessarily organized Buddhism), The Upanishads, The Law of One, the Nag Hammadi and Gospels of Thomas and Judas, Biocentrism, and even the Hidden_Hand interview that happened here on ATC, watch some Bill Hicks when he gets into philosophy, etc.

The Bible is actually a big fat metaphor for consciousness and the game being played by all of us. The "bad guys" in the game took it and twisted it... because that's their job in this game if infinity playing hide and seek with itself to put it comically simply.

But yes, according to traditional Christian beliefs, you were created to fall when taken to their logical conclusion. This is basically the speech given by Al Pacino at the end of Devil's Advocate. It's all out there, but both the organized religion side and the 100% materialistic side chooses to ignore it or think it's all fiction.

Enjoy your ride!

Namaste

reply to post by SaturnFX


I appreciate your being open and honest in your post. You are obviously an intellectual person and very bright. I would not dare try to stand toe to toe with you and that arena because I am sure that I would find myself in a deficit.

I was raised in a very fundamental, legalistic church. The guilt that the doctrine of "dos and don'ts" has ruled the majority of my life and the condemnation brought on by it was unbearable at times.

You are right! Trying to please God by one's self is an exercise in futility. It can't be done. That was the entire purpose of the OT law; to show us that pleasing God within our selves was impossible. Blood flowed from the alter in the temple continuously with all of the required sacrifices, it had to be a bloody mess.

But God through His love and mercy sent His Son Jesus as the supreme and final sacrifice. No more lambs, calves, turtle doves, or grain offerings needed to be made.

Now, I know that you know all of this. But just recently, I have discovered the true meaning of grace. God knows that I cannot live up to his level of Holiness and He does not expect me to. He wants me to accept Christ as that supreme sacrifice for my sins and receive His forgiveness. End of story. That does not mean that I have a license to sin, it just means that if I do, I can receive forgiveness.
So, I believe God. Not only do I believe Him but I serve Him. I serve Him by loving and serving others but even that is done by His grace. You see, I cannot do any good except through Him. There is something that is called prevenient grace, and it simply means receiving grace by grace and that totally takes my abilities out of the picture. You nor I will ever be pleasing to God within ourselves, it cannot be done outside of His grace.
Seeashrink

I had the catholic bashing "You're all original sinners." literally spat at me from 4 odd years of age.

You do have to remember a few very salient points:

We are told this by 'men in frocks' and one should always, always look at that startling behaviour very carefully.

If they aren't wearing frocks the religious love to dress up, sometimes in the most ridiculous and outlandish manner which again should warn one that all is 'not quite right within'. (I have nothing against pointy hats though!)

No frockwearer can usually define original sin, in fact its so original its meaning faded millions of years ago.

What you are told is via a priesthood which comes in many forms. However its worth remembering that these individuals, mostly men, only came into being once a group of people could afford to actually keep them, so they didn't have to work but concentrate on priestly matters. Initally these matters use to deal with healing the community, not demonizing them in order to qualify their own comfortable existence.'

Today, its a secret society, which hides ancient texts and books in case you read them and find out what a charade anyone who puts foot over the door of a religious institution has been subjected to, and been made to pay for..

Ever wondered why you have a heaven and hell and reincarnation was taken out of our belief system, its because quite simply if you reincarnate you don't die, so can't go to heaven or hell, so you don't require the full works from the frocksRus lot.

Sorry guys you might find you have to drink and party and get the beers out of a fridge.

reply to post by Lynda101


I gave you a star, but I ask out of mutual respect, that you may not be fully aware the role women have played in this scheme. Primarily women of power. Remember, women are more crafty... and know better how to manipulate behind the scenes. This plays out even in the playground in the differences in how females "fight" each other vs how boys do (on average).

You actually help perpetuate the "keep the women down" theme with the "mostly men" stance, because it basically perpetuates the idea that women in the past were too weak to stand up for themselves. This is part of the game the elite (men and their wives, mothers, and sisters) put upon us to keep us all fighting each other (or ourselves) rather than looking at the real target. They don't care who we fight... race... gender... age... economics... so long as we don't look directly at the top.

Otherwise, I completely agree.

reply to post by SaturnFX


An honest Athiest and a lying Christian have one thing in common: They're sinners.

Only difference is, the Christian has accepted Christ into his heart, and his sins were forgiven (because Jesus came to earth and died on the cross, fulfilling the LAW by living a PERFECT life, hence it works).

So when the "honest" Athiest (is anyone really that honest? everyone tells a lie at some point) and the lying Christian stand before God, well, let's see.. The Athiest believes himself to be good, honest, worthy of Heaven. The Christian sees himself as a liar, a sinner, worthy and deserving of Hell, but he has accepted Christ into his heart.

God looks down upon them and sees a sinful Athiest, and standing next to him, he sees his Son, Jesus, dwelling in the body of this Christian.

God welcomes his Son into Heaven.

Does this not make sense to people? Is this "magical"? Based off what? Our world and OUR limitations? If your idea of what a God is, is nothing more than someone who is BOUND BY OUR LIMITATIONS, then you have NO idea what "God" means.

Look it up.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Does this not make sense to people? Is this "magical"? Based off what? Our world and OUR limitations? If your idea of what a God is, is nothing more than someone who is BOUND BY OUR LIMITATIONS, then you have NO idea what "God" means.

Look it up.

Likewise, I hope someday you'll look up teachings outside of your limited belief and idea of what God is. There are a great many just as meaningful and insightful teachings beyond "atheism" and "christian" out there. Many humans who are just as meaningful to your creator as you are have lived and died under entirely different teachings that all still point to the same direction... except they still maintain the unconditional love aspect more completely than the version of Christianity taught today.

When you have a full idea of what God is and means, you will see the role the atheist, the buddhist, the Christian, the agnostic, the hindu, the Native American, etc. play in the experience of life we are all living right now. Based on your statements you are bound by your own limitation, which creates a division in your mind rather than unity.

I say that in love and genuine hope.

Namaste.

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't even referring to other religions or how they perceive their almighty deity or way of life, but rather those close-minded individuals who think Christians are all the same and "believe in a Cosmic Jewish Zombie" who "magically saves your soul".

I'm not even religious. I personally hate religion of all forms, it's too.. "do this, to get that"

I may not agree with others beliefs, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to change them. A lot of people don't look at the big picture behind most of these religions though, most are cultural. Like the Muslims. You think most of those people want to actually believe in Allah? Especially the women. Muslim is a man's religion, and it's forced upon the people by law.

Sure you get a few "radical" muslims who blow up buildings (which is a guaranteed way to get to heaven - dying a martyr - don't believe it's actually a peaceful religion), but the majority are Cultural Muslims, who just believe it because they grew up with it in their communities and families.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Heya folks

In my latest theological and philosophical kick to poke at christianity (no offense, but hey, you lot don't blow up buildings when upset...well, typically, lets not talk about Oklahoma) I was pondering some stuff from my other thread recently.

It occured to me that this biblical God chap is a bit of a d--k and has designed me to turn out tortured. Not just me though, but many others like me...what a crappy design if so.

Let me explain


God..what/who is he/it (will use he because I like picturing Gandalf the White verses the Oort cloud)

He designed me, to include my brain and all its wonderful abilities...logic, reason, imagination, sexuality, etc..the whole thing. He made it so that I was able to process things a bit better than say, a fruit fly. great...cheers gandalf.

Now, I am born, totally devout religious, but then again, I also think that muppets on TV are real, whatever, brain needs more input before rational kicks in.

I go to catholic school, daily religious classes and some toned down science classes...learning more and more proper scripture, but at the same time, a bit of uncovered peer reviewed scientific understandings of the world around me...the world has both physical aspects, and magic...fair enough,

However, as I grow more and more, the science bit continues to go deeper and more in depth, the religious stuff is pretty much the same as when I was in my elementry classes, with no real deeper explanation (hmm...scripture here says less than a 10k year old earth, but then my next class we talk about dino fossilization 150 million years ago...somethings not adding up.


So, will cut a bunch of years out...

Through time, I realized that science, though not perfect (any science perfected stops being science and simply becomes obvious fact) is constantly seeking out truth, seeking out answers, and in that search, finds mountains of evidence to support their theories and hypothesis's.

God gave me my brain...
God gave me the ability to be rational.
Rationally speaking, religion appears to be bunk..the only possible way I can entertain religion as being even remotely true is to stop using my rational brain that God gave me...to basically lie to myself out of some primitive fear of a etherial spanking. I could do that...actually in my late teens, I did do that, I ignored the rational part of myself and told people I was christian, I was saved by the sacrifice of some guy in a story and how he saved me, etc etc etc. I didn't say it to seem better to people, nor did I say it because I truely believed it...I said it because there was still a slightly underdeveloped part of my brain that allowed fear to overrule my rational brain.

Eventually I did realize that if this is what a deity wants, it is not a very good deity...if a deity uses fear (a very base negative emotion) to control your speech, then that deity is evil..

Well, he isn't evil so far as the new testiment is concerned, so, I removed any and all fear...however, by doing that, my rational mindset was able to flourish and I allowed myself to study forbidden topic deeper (such as radio-carbon dating and such)...and yes...I realized that if indeed there is a God, and he did design the system for me, then he must have known I would conclude that religion is bunk.

By doing this....

Is God wanting me to go to hell due to by simple inabilty to accept religious teachings as anything more than ancient fear based mythos? or is God trying to show people like me that religion is a tool used only to control weaker minds whom would otherwise go be very antisocial people without?

What gives here...

And don't start with "say you accept the blood sacrifice of christ and ask for guidance"...again, when I was in my late teens, I was pretty fundy christian and did all that.

So...design flaw by a deity or have I uncovered a greater truth above the pretend wrapping of religion?

Man , you think about God almost as often as he thinks about you.

I think you should take a bow, for your thought provoking threads, that lead many people to read their bibles,
just to see if what you say is true, but then many find the real truth.
I just love it, when God takes what the enemy meant for evil and turns it around,so keep up the good work, your being used by God and you don't even know it.

God himself doesn't like religion and neither does Christ.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Ahhh... ok. Apologies. It came across completely as "we're all sinners... but I know that if I have Christ in my life I'll be ok in God's eyes" and then asking us why that doesn't make sense to the rest of us.

/bow

Namaste.

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


Hi ErgoTheConfusion

When I was at school 50s/60s we only had a male priesthood in both Catholic and Protestant religions and I was including both the other Abramics. My comments didn't apply to either Hinduism or Buddhism as their priesthoods and awareness of the feminine side of nature is beautifully illustrated.

I see your point about the role women play and Rose Kennedy immediately sprung to mind. Its still virtually a background one though, we don't live through our husbands anymore and have fought through the workplace to the board, but its still a very uneven playing field..

Actually looking back I can only think of one especially brilliant women from the early Christian era and that was Hildergarde Von Binden until much later in time. Ironically going back through time, the religious side of worship was the domain of the feminine, the pure and the priestess. As women come back into the religious side of life more, perhaps it may see a levelling out of the more extreme behaviour religions can unleash. Its strange in the USA religion is thriving yet in the UK, various ones claim converts, but its almost become a minority sport. The last time the pulpits were busy was during WW2. Thanks for your comments.

Originally posted by infojunkie2
your being used by God and you don't even know it.

That in itself is a completely different theological discussion
Was judas evil? is anyone evil?
Is it a grand design? Why did Jesus say love your enemy?

Let say for a moment your right...that God decided to use the tool of atheism to challenge the so called devout...that means then that the tool being used is already "saved' and is now just fulfilling a divine plan.

So, with that in mind...is anyone evil? Is any intent evil?

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by infojunkie2
your being used by God and you don't even know it.

That in itself is a completely different theological discussion
Was judas evil? is anyone evil?
Is it a grand design? Why did Jesus say love your enemy?

Let say for a moment your right...that God decided to use the tool of atheism to challenge the so called devout...that means then that the tool being used is already "saved' and is now just fulfilling a divine plan.

So, with that in mind...is anyone evil? Is any intent evil?

I was not saying that you are evil or that you are the enemy,the enemy is the god of this world ( satan),who inspires and motivates you to write such things, yes that makes you his tool,just as I can be used as a tool in the hands of Almighty God,wheither you like it, or even know it ,you too, have a god that you serve.

Satan's motives are crystal clear, they are not meant to uplift or help build anybody up, but only to tear down,
that is the the evil that I was referring to, and yes the intent is evil.

But as you are being used by the enemy to try and tear down, you lead people to read the bible for themselves,and instead many are built up.because God will take what the enemy means for evil and turns it around. Notice God turns the evil around, that does not make the tool saved,
Either your logic is flawed, or you are lieing to yourself.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Saturn... Which god do you speak of? If it is the god of the Hebrews, then unless you yourself are Hebrew, i would advise you not to worry about it... It's like a boy in nursery school getting advice on how to use the bathroom from a girl.... Completely different parts...

Go figure out who the god of your ancestors was, and you may be surprised how perfect you are, and your tribe may not even have had a heaven or hell, or even the concept of sin!