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God is wanting me to go to hell by design..and potentially you.

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posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Heya folks

In my latest theological and philosophical kick to poke at christianity (no offense, but hey, you lot don't blow up buildings when upset...well, typically, lets not talk about Oklahoma) I was pondering some stuff from my other thread recently.

It occured to me that this biblical God chap is a bit of a d--k and has designed me to turn out tortured. Not just me though, but many others like me...what a crappy design if so.

Let me explain


God..what/who is he/it (will use he because I like picturing Gandalf the White verses the Oort cloud)

He designed me, to include my brain and all its wonderful abilities...logic, reason, imagination, sexuality, etc..the whole thing. He made it so that I was able to process things a bit better than say, a fruit fly. great...cheers gandalf.

Now, I am born, totally devout religious, but then again, I also think that muppets on TV are real, whatever, brain needs more input before rational kicks in.

I go to catholic school, daily religious classes and some toned down science classes...learning more and more proper scripture, but at the same time, a bit of uncovered peer reviewed scientific understandings of the world around me...the world has both physical aspects, and magic...fair enough,

However, as I grow more and more, the science bit continues to go deeper and more in depth, the religious stuff is pretty much the same as when I was in my elementry classes, with no real deeper explanation (hmm...scripture here says less than a 10k year old earth, but then my next class we talk about dino fossilization 150 million years ago...somethings not adding up.


So, will cut a bunch of years out...

Through time, I realized that science, though not perfect (any science perfected stops being science and simply becomes obvious fact) is constantly seeking out truth, seeking out answers, and in that search, finds mountains of evidence to support their theories and hypothesis's.

God gave me my brain...
God gave me the ability to be rational.
Rationally speaking, religion appears to be bunk..the only possible way I can entertain religion as being even remotely true is to stop using my rational brain that God gave me...to basically lie to myself out of some primitive fear of a etherial spanking. I could do that...actually in my late teens, I did do that, I ignored the rational part of myself and told people I was christian, I was saved by the sacrifice of some guy in a story and how he saved me, etc etc etc. I didn't say it to seem better to people, nor did I say it because I truely believed it...I said it because there was still a slightly underdeveloped part of my brain that allowed fear to overrule my rational brain.

Eventually I did realize that if this is what a deity wants, it is not a very good deity...if a deity uses fear (a very base negative emotion) to control your speech, then that deity is evil..

Well, he isn't evil so far as the new testiment is concerned, so, I removed any and all fear...however, by doing that, my rational mindset was able to flourish and I allowed myself to study forbidden topic deeper (such as radio-carbon dating and such)...and yes...I realized that if indeed there is a God, and he did design the system for me, then he must have known I would conclude that religion is bunk.

By doing this....

Is God wanting me to go to hell due to by simple inabilty to accept religious teachings as anything more than ancient fear based mythos? or is God trying to show people like me that religion is a tool used only to control weaker minds whom would otherwise go be very antisocial people without?

What gives here...

And don't start with "say you accept the blood sacrifice of christ and ask for guidance"...again, when I was in my late teens, I was pretty fundy christian and did all that.

So...design flaw by a deity or have I uncovered a greater truth above the pretend wrapping of religion?




posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Oh, and one more thing

Lets say I die...and someone like me but self proclaimed christian died as well

Both of us are standing at the pearly gates and old Pete is there.

What would be presented to him would be two people. a honest atheist, or a lying christian.

If you were a deity, which one would you rather have rewarded and in your kingdom for eternity...someone whom was honest and simply could not see any evidence of you through scientific achievements and such, or the liar whom spent his whole life giving you lip service only for rewards and gain while dismissing anything his brain had filtered through.

Its interesting really...is heaven filled with intellectually dishonest people?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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You do raise some interesting points. I think the bible has truths in it, but has been torn apart and re-written so many times that its hard to know what is fact and what is fiction. Good post.



Deebo



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I hope you didnt go to school for this stuff.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Deebo
You do raise some interesting points. I think the bible has truths in it, but has been torn apart and re-written so many times that its hard to know what is fact and what is fiction. Good post.



Deebo


I am of the opinion that we need to simply discard "holy" books of all flavors and simply restructure society based on mutual respect and peaceful interactions..."holy" books are used as a wedge and weapon more often than a source of wisdom.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by THEDUDE86
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I hope you didnt go to school for this stuff.


What stuff?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Have you met God? Any proof of God?

Pics or it didn't happen.



Sorry, I just want to know if you've personally met him or if you're just making a complete assumption that he's real because a book says so.

Thanks!



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Skate
Have you met God? Any proof of God?

Pics or it didn't happen.



Sorry, I just want to know if you've personally met him or if you're just making a complete assumption that he's real because a book says so.

Thanks!


You asking me?
I am guessing you didn't read the op, did you...if so, well, then..strange question.


Add:
Will shorten it a bit:

God gave me a brain and reason which made me realize there is no such thing...why would he do that
the only rational conclusion is that religion is nonsense...and to think otherwise is to go against the tools god gave me to conclude that...

meaning religion = false
or god made a very poor design to allow such conclusions to be made.
edit on 15-4-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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God gave me a brain and reason which made me realize there is no such thing...why would he do that


I'm glad you realize how much sense the above statement makes



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by snowspirit



God gave me a brain and reason which made me realize there is no such thing...why would he do that


I'm glad you realize how much sense the above statement makes




Must be my religious understanding which allows for such sensible statements.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.(he he) Sorry. You are taking a very one dimensional christian look at god and the reason he's a dick. The catholic god is an a**hole no doubt.I mean seriosly making a man be celibate for his whole life is kinda of like telling a dog he can never lick his crotch. Cruel and unusual punishment. But their is more than one religous point of view, especially when it comes to christianity. As an atheist you believe in no god.Science gives you your answers and to you somehow disproves even the slightest possibility of a god and based on christianity I can understand that. But how does science negate the possibilitie of deities altogether. I mean really just because You can explain a sunset,it doesn't make any less spiritual. I know love is just a chemical reaction in my brain, but does it negate the fact that it is truly something special, no. As I stated once before,IMO, science and religon are the same thing. A way to seek the answers you need. One does not prove or disprove the other.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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I have committed all of the cardinal sins, as have most of you. And I started committing several of these way before I could even start to ponder the existence of God. And I still can´t contain my lust or my greed enough to avoid the fiery pits of Hell. So according to scripture I´ll have to spend the rest of my life on my knees trying to beg, plead and bargain for forgiveness. And all of this because of something I had nothing to do with: my instincts and desires. Insidious. Grotesque. But brilliant!

This does not strike me as something a god would do. Instead, it is sadistic, petty and, for lack of a better word, evil. Does that description ring a bell? Surely human beings have created Hell here on earth for other human beings to "enjoy".

In my opinion there is some force, some consciousness, that can be called God. But God doesn´t test people. God is infinite wisdom and already knows the outcome. To think that God is anything like the human being... is typically human. There is no way we can fully fathom that which we call God, but should we ever do, I think we will all be very surprised.

Yes, religion keeps people in check. If I was a megalomaniacal tyrant, no army of mine could possibly crush peoples instinct to overthrow me. So I´d just have to try and avert their eyes from me and force them to focus on themselves instead. Make them doubt their own abilities and view their suffering as something necessary. Something that will pay off in another existence. With two braincells to rub together, you construct a belief system to do this. And continue to rob them blind. Only this time, they willingly give you their riches. In the hopes that they´ll be allowed entry into Heaven...

Unless God also punishes humans for sins they would have committed if they had been given a chance, God sits on his throne surrounded by foetuses and infants.

I am an agnostic and I reserve the right to be wrong about everything I´ve written

edit on 15-4-2011 by Exodaria because: I am sloppy?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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I believe in God but I am not a religious person, I don't think God created religion, he told us how to live, eat and love each other. I think a lot of the Old Testament had religious leaders telling their people "God told me to tell you"

For the all powerful almighty, does he really need me to go wipe out a village of men, women, children and animals? Can't he send down fire from heaven and do it himself?

I have heard Christian say to Christian they are going to hell because they went to the wrong church.

I have had Christians tell me that a Buddhist is gong to hell because they did not SAY the name Jesus!
From what I have read they are some of the most peaceful loving people. Too bad they are going to burn huh?

I have heard Christians say "Jesus died so I can sin"

Religion is what ever you want it to be, but its not God.

I know that the Bible has questionable translations but read the words in "RED" I think they are most honest part of the bible. keep church for fellowship.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Doesn't really seem like you want an answer, that you are pretty much unwavering and resolved to your beliefs about religion and just started another thread so that people with like minds will affirm your beliefs. Finding loopholes and technicalities in Religious texts has been done over and over again on ATS. People with faith are not ignorant and people with no faith are not the epitome of intellect (TGFThat). Like beating a dead horse.




posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by stinavamp
As an atheist you believe in no god.

Not entirely accurate
I do not believe in no god, rather, I disbelieve in the current selection given due to lack of evidence. Though it may seem a bit pedantic, the views are very different.
I fully accept the possibility (and believe in to an extent) highly advanced races and civilizations that may exist that, if met face to face, would seem to qualify as a deity.


Science gives you your answers and to you somehow disproves even the slightest possibility of a god

No, disproving something in ones imagination is impossible...rather, there is no proof to suggest any religious deitys are factual...again, a slight wording difference but a profoundly different viewpoint.
I do not take athiesm as a religion, its just a starting point, I am agnostic in regards to possibilities...I don't know, but my stand is that I do not know, therefore I am starting from disbelief but willing to entertain anything that gives solid evidence for/against anything.


and based on christianity I can understand that. But how does science negate the possibilitie of deities altogether.

It doesn't as mentioned already...just religious claims through holy books.
I am careful not to dismiss "god"...but will gladly dismiss religion. you will note I never say god = no such thing, I have no opinion about such a concept in concrete due to the variable use of the term, however religion is very easy to dismiss.


I mean really just because You can explain a sunset,it doesn't make any less spiritual.

Thats perspective...a smile or hug is a spiritual experience, winning high score on a game, a sunset, etc...all is simply perspectives that hit a pleasure center of your brain and becomes enjoyable.
We tend to love a sunrise (for example) because we know there is no harm coming from it...now, if there was no ozone and sunrise = fireballs and all hell breaking loose, we would view a sunrise as a horrific scene of a giant death ball coming into view...suddenly those pretty hues of pinks and purple would transform into blood red hate and anger from the sky...
perspective.


I know love is just a chemical reaction in my brain, but does it negate the fact that it is truly something special, no. As I stated once before,IMO, science and religon are the same thing. A way to seek the answers you need. One does not prove or disprove the other.


I am a fan of personal spirituality. at the least, it allows for your pleasure center to be touched and a feeling of unity towards the nice things...at most it may be some deeper connection to the universe your feeling...but spirituality is not religion..there is no rulebook, no anthropomorphic principles of deitys that think like humans and therefore cry when you have a naughty thought, etc...it is a personal connection with the greater universe..and that is all philosophy and personal viewpoints...total fan of that and its something I actually fight for when fighting against religion.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by oldsoulnewmind
Doesn't really seem like you want an answer, that you are pretty much unwavering and resolved to your beliefs about religion and just started another thread so that people with like minds will affirm your beliefs.


Naa, starting another thread = to point out a different angle on a mindset that does not accept religion.

As far as affirmation towards my belief system...simply put, if I wanted affirmation towards my thinking so I could feel like I fit in, I would take up a religion (since most of the world has one)...its not easy to go against the grain of tradition.

Some view these types of threads and instead of see me as some sinister character, they ponder the questions, and either become less inclined to believe in their religion, or stronger because they reversed the questions and dilemmas and have some sort of perfect fitting answer for themselves...and of course some just choose to slam me and not ponder the question at all (some people's faith is simply too weak to allow for questioning...fear of crumbling).

So, where do you stand?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I love your perspective on things and your right these thoughts are all perspective. Really nothing is fact, science, god,religon me or you.Although I'm glad you have made the distinction between religon and spirituality to me. I really never thought of one seperate from the other. You see I use to be a wiccan and the reason I changed my belief stucture was I never really wanted structure to begin with. I found that same dogma in the wiccan circles as I found in the christian. Well that even in a religon as freeing as wicca you have the constraints by certain people telling you what to believe and how you're doing it wrong. I have cast that off and have a belief structure all of my own which I considered my religon because I have put up and tore down my own "code of morality" as I incorperate new information, a constant evolving creature of my spirituality.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by oldsoulnewmind
Doesn't really seem like you want an answer, that you are pretty much unwavering and resolved to your beliefs about religion and just started another thread so that people with like minds will affirm your beliefs.


Naa, starting another thread = to point out a different angle on a mindset that does not accept religion.

As far as affirmation towards my belief system...simply put, if I wanted affirmation towards my thinking so I could feel like I fit in, I would take up a religion (since most of the world has one)...its not easy to go against the grain of tradition.

Some view these types of threads and instead of see me as some sinister character, they ponder the questions, and either become less inclined to believe in their religion, or stronger because they reversed the questions and dilemmas and have some sort of perfect fitting answer for themselves...and of course some just choose to slam me and not ponder the question at all (some people's faith is simply too weak to allow for questioning...fear of crumbling).

So, where do you stand?

Really? Because this post seems like more of the same. Besides I have more friends who are Atheists or Agnostic than those that belong to a religion.
I don't see you as a sinister person, more like a mislead or mis-taught person, what you are describing is more Calvinist than Catholic. Actually your background is very similar to my own, though I wasn't born devout lol. I was taught both Science (and History) and my Religion and found I can believe both without sacrificing my intelligence, my integrity, my convictions or my civility. I can accept Darwin's Theory of evolution (without liking the guy personally. He was kinda an elitist F###wad) and I can believe in the Genesis story, as a person of Faith's explanation of the creation of the world. Science, I have found was a way that began as an attempt to reach and try to be closer to God, but along the way we found out more about this little world we live on, in the vast galaxy we exist in, occupied with in an infinite Universe of Unknown. Perhaps that's why we where given these brains to reason and find logic, so we can find life and being in carbon, molecules, cells and atoms and through that we are closer to knowing Him.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Have you tried reading the bible from an "outside of religion" perspective?

Better yet, have you read any other religious books like the gnostics? Things that the churches of the world say are "not Cannon"

You'll find that they all have a common ground which is love...

The bible is a great book but if its read to you as opposed to reading it yourself and finding your own meanings the real messages are lost.




posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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I am a fan of personal spirituality. at the least, it allows for your pleasure center to be touched and a feeling of unity towards the nice things...at most it may be some deeper connection to the universe your feeling...but spirituality is not religion..there is no rulebook, no anthropomorphic principles of deitys that think like humans and therefore cry when you have a naughty thought, etc...it is a personal connection with the greater universe..and that is all philosophy and personal viewpoints...total fan of that and its something I actually fight for when fighting against religion.


Yes. This I totally agree with. The beauty of the stars, sunsets, and the feeling you get when your puppy looks at you adoringly.

I'm watching a show right now, called "the gates of hell". What an awful belief. I still haven't figured out the deal with "burning" without having a physical body, and "screaming" without vocal chords. What good God would subject everyone to that? According to what I've heard, I would be doomed for being a woman, for having a father that didn't believe, and then there's the dumb choices that I've made too. What about people that have never heard of "jesus"? Doomed.


I consider myself an agnostic pantheist. I have no idea what/who is running this life/universe/multiverse, but if there is a he/she/it/being, they/it must be everywhere at once, in all timelines at once. The Great Universal Soul (GUS), to me, is more like the Unified Field, or the Grand Theory of Everything, or whatever else they call those types of theories.

Hell makes no sense, but if it turns out to be real, see you all there......
At least he keeps the heat on...



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