Muslims VS Jews. Some interesting facts

reply to post by mayabong


Regarding Begin and his "terrorist" history. You should know that first, the King David bombing was carried out against the British and they WERE WARNED beforehand about the explosion.

Also, Begin's resistance organization was a fringe group then, and when the state of Israel was founded, it was disbanded and absorbed into the armed forces, however, for years to come, the people who belonged to Begin's organization and other organization were shunned by the political powers in the country... it wasn't until 1977 (30 years AFTER the founding of the country) that Begin became prime minister... and don't forget, that he DID sign a peace agreement with an Arab country...

You can say a lot about Begin, a terrorist he was not, he never advocated the murder of civilians, and would have never butchered a sleeping family in their beds, like our nice cousins - look it up, there are pictures of the murder, with the 3 month old baby(!) butchered in bed next to her father(!) as a parent, I regret ever seeing those pictures, as they haunt me ever since.

There is a moral difference between targeting civilians on purpose, and civilians being hit by accident or when those terrorists are firing from within civilian population.

So, while Begin might have done illegal things while Israel was under the British mandate, his actions in no way make him a terrorist...

reply to post by woodwardjnr


It is not we who have been killing anyone!

It is the Governments who have people brainwashed into killing to further their own needs. In fact most of the civilian deaths in Iraq are caused by suicide bombers and for what. I understand we have no right being there at all and the soldiers should come home.

It is the governments that are keeping people in fear and creating the chaos then a solution by sending in troops that is the problem. It is every government in this world, they all have one goal and that is control of the slaves!

Honestly was there all this terrorism around the world until 9/11, if there was it wasn't heard of or not quite as much. Before the war on drugs was there a real big drug problem in the US? No there wasn't.

Government creates the problem then the solution!

Wow...I actually read through 9 pages of hate and bigotry. I should get a prize of my own.
Now, since it is obvious that the article itself is fake (debunked on the very first page), no need to address that.
But then someone said, it may be fake, but it is still factual.

Actually, it's not. Out of the very few "facts" the article mentions, most are wrong. For example, I haven't gone through all the nobel laureates, because it is a pretty daunting task, but so far, I've found at least 9 muslims. And since you make clear later on in the thread that you are talking from a religious perspective, it would be pertinent to note that several of the laureates on that list were atheists, agnostics or unreligious.

But never mind that, because the basic assumption is flawed on so many levels. Since when is the Nobel prize a measure of advancement? People have mentioned several Nobel laureates who definitely didn't deserve the award, and there were several more deserving candidates every year that got passed over.

Using the original articles absurd methodology, (and the bigoted conclusion of the OP that provided the article), we can deduce that:

• Since only 7 indians ever won a Nobel prize, and India makes up about the same percentage of human population as muslims, Indians are obviously inferior to "Westerners".
  
• Since only 41 women ever won a Nobel prize, and their population makes up over 50% of humankind, it is obvious that women are inferior to men.
  
• Since Cambridge University affiliates account for 61 Nobel Laureates, and the University of Milan accounts for only 1, it is obvious that Italian academics are inferior to English ones.
  
• Since US citizens, or those born in the US account for over 320 Nobel Laureates, while there are only 4 Finnish Nobel Laureates, Finns are obviously deficient in some way.
  

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The Jews never tried to use their religious laws to trump the countries laws. Jews 1 Muslims 0

And the muslims have? Where, exactly?
What some muslims want is what most jews already HAVE in countries like the US and UK. Ever heard of Bet Din?

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Measure the civilisational accomplishments, products and results of Islam vs Judaism by any metric and Islam will allways come of second by a very very longway!

Errrr...astronomy, mathematics, navigation?

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Brainwashed propagandised dupes will refuse to listen because they have been indocrinated with the 'brown people can never be blamed for anything' meme

So you wish to blame the "brown people"? You are superior to these brown people, I assume? You make a lot of statements alleging what these "brown people" (in this case muslims) believe in, unfortunately, you're wrong in pretty much every regard.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
My point is that Western Civilisation is superior by any metric than any other civilisation.

Actually, no.
"Asian civilisation" (China, Japan, Korea, etc.) is "superior" in terms of average IQ.
The other poster is right. Getting your information from blogs (especially blogs that quote such rubbish as World Net Daily and FrontPage Mag) isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.
Trying to whitewash everything the muslims did out of history is absurd, and seriously impossible, sorry. So many people try to spread the crazy idea that all muslims did was transmit the greek and roman ideas to Europe. That's the silliest thing ever. Much of modern thought has arisen from the muslim rejection and revision of the outdated ideas of the greeks.
Gotta admit, though, you're nowhere near the most racist person in this thread. I think that award goes to rdavis:

reply to post by rdavis

Originally posted by rdavis
You sound like a lowlife Afrocentric. The blacks did not civilize the Spanish, they were committing genocide against them and trying to ethnically cleanse them! They suppressed the Spanish, took their land, and raped their women (they asked for 100 white virgins each year for the 700 years and made them convert to Islam or be killed them- how is that civilizing them you idiot?) The Spanish got the idea of breeding with whom they conquered from the Moors. So why don't we tell every Mexican that if it wasn't for Black people giving the Spanish these ideas that they wouldn't have lost their country.

You, sir, are the racist and bigot.

If you so want to tell us more about history, why don't you mention that if it was not for the disgusting Arabs/Muslims Rome would still be here and Europeans would have never had to go looking across the Atlantic to find trade routes to Asia? If it was not for genocidal blacks and arabs, Europeans would not have had to steep down to that level and do similar things to other people.

And you for one are by no means a good natured person, just someone who is probably going to be killed in the next couple of years because of your idiocy.

I mean, is there anything more hilarious than a racist person levelling accusations of racism against others? Do I even need to address anything in rdavis's post? I think most people understand he's talking nonsense, well, other than CountDrac, the OP of this thread, who praised him for being right.

Speaking of CountDrac, he made another accusation against muslims and Islam where he says:

Originally posted by CountDrac
Yes Islam in the past gave some things to the world but not in a long time…

Which I really don't understand. So is he suggesting that Islam was originally good, did lots of good things, but this was in the past, and at some magically point somewhere before the present, Islam suddenly changed and became evil?

reply to post by babloyi


Yes in case you hadn’t opened the news lately our entire world is dealing with Muslim extremist in almost every country around the globe. That’s a fact…

Another fact is that the Muslim people are aware of this hence the uprisings in the Middle East (Iran, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Libya etc). Any moderate Muslim will tell you that Islam for the first time in hundreds of years is going through modernization and a civil war. My opinions reflect that, as well as reflect the current situation in the Middle East. Where Muslim extremist, religious laws, and oppression by dictators backed by religious groups control and oppress the Muslim people.

Furthermore the noble prize system was just an example. No one can argue the effect the Jewish people had on every aspect of humanity and our evolution. In any area you choose you will find a Jewish man as a forefather.

The Jewish religion itself was the foundation for both Christianity and Islam. And planted the seeds of modern morals and ethics with the introduction of the Ten Commandments and the bible.

Spare me your long response, its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about

reply to post by babloyi


Absolutely fantastic post my friend!

Shows how ridiculous this OP's point is, from so many "racial" perspectives!

PS is that Guybrush Threepwood on your Avatar?

One has to admit that the concept of the vacuum left by the Jews who left or were forced from Europe, and have since been replaced with Muslims - hasn't exactly improved Europe in the least.

In fact, most of the time, I hear Europeans constantly bitching and moaning how Muslims are screwing up their nations.

There is a cultural expectation among Jews that is almost unique - the emphasis placed on education and excellence at science, technology, medicine, and the arts.

There is a cultural expectation among Arabs, an emphasis placed on hating everyone that isn't Muslim, the emphasis on excellence at AK-47 shooting in the air, the ability to carry not only the RPG launcher, but also the rocket pack, and hating the Jews.

Odd how that manifests itself.

Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The Jews never tried to use their religious laws to trump the countries laws. Jews 1 Muslims 0

And the muslims have? Where, exactly?
What some muslims want is what most jews already HAVE in countries like the US and UK. Ever heard of Bet Din?

Nope never heard of Bet Din. I have heard of Muslims arguing in court that because a solution to a problem is covered under the Sharah Law - such as the right to kill your wife for disobedience or your daughter for being to Americanized - that they should be allowed to follow that religious law instead of the laws of the United States. The news is filled with such examples of court cases.

Still the fact remains that Sharah Law is not a personal spirtual religious law only, ( as in every other religion on earth) but its a religious and political law. Muslims believe they have the Allah given right to follow their Sharah Law to the exclusion of the laws in the countries they live in. That's just not right.


By the way. I looked up Bet Din. You spelled it wrong: en.wikipedia.org... I read about it and This is not the same thing as what the Muslims are trying to do.

reply to post by CountDrac

Originally posted by CountDrac
Another fact is that the Muslim people are aware of this hence the uprisings in the Middle East (Iran, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Libya etc). Any moderate Muslim will tell you that Islam for the first time in hundreds of years is going through modernization and a civil war. My opinions reflect that, as well as reflect the current situation in the Middle East. Where Muslim extremist, religious laws, and oppression by dictators backed by religious groups control and oppress the Muslim people.

There have been dozens of schools of thought, dozens of varying interpretations of Islam and it's scriptures all throughout the ages. This is nothing "new". The only new thing is an attempt by some to paint the entire religion as a monolithic borg of some kind, and this is absolutely and obviously false.

Originally posted by CountDrac
No one can argue the effect the Jewish people had on every aspect of humanity and our evolution. In any area you choose you will find a Jewish man as a forefather.

The same could be said of basically every civilisation and culture pertaining to ever "aspect of humanity and our evolution". It was a collaborative effort, and to claim that the Jews are some how superior in this regard is just silly.

Originally posted by CountDrac
The Jewish religion itself was the foundation for both Christianity and Islam. And planted the seeds of modern morals and ethics with the introduction of the Ten Commandments and the bible.

And both those religions also removed a vast amount which they considered unnecessary or detrimental from the "Jewish foundation" that they built upon.

Originally posted by CountDrac
Spare me your long response, its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about

Apologies for that. I was responding to 9 pages of bigotry. It takes some space to do.


reply to post by FarArcher

I know you are generalising for effect or something, but really, you should be careful how you do it, there is a fine line between generalising and bigotry and racism. People are people, some good, some bad, and cultural hatred is certainly not the defining characteristic of any of these cultures.


reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Nope never heard of Bet Din. I have heard of Muslims arguing in court that because a solution to a problem is covered under the Sharah Law - such as the right to kill your wife for disobedience or your daughter for being to Americanized - that they should be allowed to follow that religious law instead of the laws of the United States. The news is filled with such examples of court cases.

People will use whatever excuse they can think of to get out of doing time, but in this case, it doesn't make any sense, because there is no allowance in Shariah law to "kill your wife for disobedience or your daughter for being Americanised".

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Muslims believe they have the Allah given right to follow their Sharah Law to the exclusion of the rights in the countries they live in. That's just not right.

Would it be "not right" if a Christian shied away from pre-marital sex, even though he may live in a state where it is allowed? In what sense do Muslims believe they have the "right to follow their Sharah Law to the exclusion of the rights in the countries they live in"? What does that statement even mean? You say that the news is filled with such cases? I have only seen 1 or 2 that have been distorted into something they are not, and then extremely over-hyped as a stick to beat peaceful muslims with.


PS: It is indeed, lyovmyshkin! Right now he's been startled silent by the craziness in this thread.

reply to post by babloyi

You're right. I should have been much more specific.

Jews have a long tradition and cultural expectation of acquiring higher education and becoming professionals or at the peak of their profession, be it science, medicine, physics, chemistry, medicine, or the arts.

Muslims - good fundamentalist Muslims - as we can see from parts of the more fundamental Qur'an -teaching groups - groups like the Taliban, disdain higher education, want to keep their females, adult and child - ignorant, thus, the strikes against Westerners who dared let the girl children go to school.

My bad.

Originally posted by FarArcher
Muslims - good fundamentalist Muslims...groups like the Taliban

Apologies. I thought you were generalising. I didn't realise you just don't know what you are talking about.

If I was in the mood, I could start drawing comparisons to some of the genocidal passages of the Hebrew Bible, and their correlation to the "long tradition and cultural expectation of the jews".

Oddly enough, if I did, I would probably be more strongly branded a racist or a bigot than you would with your current talk about muslims.

reply to post by babloyi


Are you an expert on Sharia law?

I don't wanna beat good Muslims down, only the extremists - and so do the good Muslims - -> There are many large groups of Muslims who are against the teachings of Sharia law because of these abuses. They tell you that Sharia law is an extreme way of looking at Islam's teachings and site the passages of the law people use to condone murder. Which the extremists do use.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Are you an expert on Sharah Law?

I don't wanna beat good Muslims down, only the extremists - and so do the good Muslims - -> There are many large groups of Muslims who are against the teachings of Sharah Law because of these abuses. They tell you that Sharah Law is an extreme way of looking at Islam's teachings and site the passages of the law people use to condone murder. Which the extremists do use.

Nope, John, I'm not. I'd wager that neither are you. Shariah Law, or "Fiqh" (which would be the more appropriate term for the way you are utilising the term), is a huge and varied field in Islamic scholarship, with dozens upon dozens of differing viewpoints, some of them extremist, some of them conservative, some of them liberal, in the same sense that two different people could be claiming to follow "Christian morals", and have 2 different opposing behaviours.

What I'm trying to point out with my contribution to this thread is that there are muslims, "good muslims" as you call them, muslims who actively follow their faith and believe in it (and are not just muslim in name) who would defy the crass generalisation and bigotry that some people in this thread are levelling at them.

reply to post by babloyi

I'm not a Jew.

And as a Christian, we believe that the Old Law was fulfilled and believe that we are under a new Law.

This is what happens when you have an illiterate as a prophet. He has to go on hearsay, and when you make it up as you go along, you get confused.

So quote all the old texts of the Hebrews you want - it doesn't affect me.

reply to post by FarArcher

Originally posted by FarArcher
I'm not a Jew.

And as a Christian, we believe that the Old Law was fulfilled and believe that we are under a new Law.

This is what happens when you have an illiterate as a prophet. He has to go on hearsay, and when you make it up as you go along, you get confused.

So quote all the old texts of the Hebrews you want - it doesn't affect me.

Apologies once again! I wasn't aware that we were supposed to be intentionally insulting each other, and using our pre-formed religious beliefs as validation for our argument!

I don't care in the least what you are. I was responding to what you SAID. And what you said was something about Jews having a long-standing tradition and cultural expectation of blah-de-blah, while muslims (or Islam) were basically evil, because of your interpretation of their religious book.

I just pointed out that the religious book of Jews is no less interpretable to fit whatever needs you might have. Odd that you didn't judge them by the same criteria.

Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by mayabong

 

Regarding Begin and his "terrorist" history. You should know that first, the King David bombing was carried out against the British and they WERE WARNED beforehand about the explosion.

Also, Begin's resistance organization was a fringe group then, and when the state of Israel was founded, it was disbanded and absorbed into the armed forces, however, for years to come, the people who belonged to Begin's organization and other organization were shunned by the political powers in the country... it wasn't until 1977 (30 years AFTER the founding of the country) that Begin became prime minister... and don't forget, that he DID sign a peace agreement with an Arab country...

You can say a lot about Begin, a terrorist he was not, he never advocated the murder of civilians, and would have never butchered a sleeping family in their beds, like our nice cousins - look it up, there are pictures of the murder, with the 3 month old baby(!) butchered in bed next to her father(!) as a parent, I regret ever seeing those pictures, as they haunt me ever since.

There is a moral difference between targeting civilians on purpose, and civilians being hit by accident or when those terrorists are firing from within civilian population.

So, while Begin might have done illegal things while Israel was under the British mandate, his actions in no way make him a terrorist...

Yeah sure they warned them. How the hell can you say that a man that was responsible for killing dozens of people including jews was not a terrorist? What exactly is your example of a terrorist?? Someone who doesn't warn before they kill? Here watch this video where the actual "terrorists" tell you how they did it.



They placed the bombs in places crowded with people and ran. Yeah really sounds like they didn't want to kill anyone. Just the fact that you make this seem like it was the right thing to do, makes any other post you make (especially if its about muslims) invalid.

LOL oh dear..nobel peace prize comparisons..really?

Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by FarArcher
Muslims - good fundamentalist Muslims...groups like the Taliban

Apologies. I thought you were generalising. I didn't realise you just don't know what you are talking about.

If I was in the mood, I could start drawing comparisons to some of the genocidal passages of the Hebrew Bible, and their correlation to the "long tradition and cultural expectation of the jews".

Oddly enough, if I did, I would probably be more strongly branded a racist or a bigot than you would with your current talk about muslims.

edit on 16-4-2011 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

Absolutely mate, and the guy who called you a anti semite, his post would have loads of 'stars' haha. You're speaking the truth there but you'd be suprised to know that on this particular section of this so called 'deny ignorance' forum truth isn't well recieved.

reply to post by babloyi

Since US citizens, or those born in the US account for over 320 Nobel Laureates, while there are only 4 Finnish Nobel Laureates, Finns are obviously deficient in some way.

Yeah, they are deficient in total population. When you account for that, the number of nobel prizes per capita is strikingly similar.

reply to post by Maslo


And ALL Nobel Prizes are given out based on opinions of the judges..
Way too much room for bias and manipulation to really give much credit to recipients..

Well, besides the Nobel prizes, what about patents that Israel has developed?
Israel is third in the world per capita in patents developments, forth in the world for bio-pharma patents, and first in the world in medical patents.
Most likely you have unknowingly used many of such developments.

Now, please remind us what the Muslims have developed lately for the benefit of mankind?
I'm not generalizing here and saying all Muslims are ignorant, but the fact remains that with all the trillions of dollars they have made with their oil, they progressed very little. The Muslim elites are some of the richest people of the world, while they keep their people in the dark ages of illiteracy and poverty.
Unfortunately, the thing that makes them famous in the last century is the call for a Muslim world domination and terror.

Europeans are slowly realizing that their way of life and culture is in grave danger by Muslim immigration, not because of Islam, but because of their refusal to integrate.