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"Oh, you're reading with your mind, not you're heart"

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posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


I've always wondered if people know what they mean when they talk about the heart. They are aware that's just metaphorical poetic nonsense right? All thinking is done with the brain. What they actually want is emotional susceptibility.

Religion likes to tear people down and tell them they are worthless sinners deserving of Hell but THEN turn around and tell them that Jesus loves them more than anything in the world.

I felt much the same way as you when I read the Bible. In fact I felt revolted as the scriptures I'd been taught were the perfect word of God actually described a deity who was, by any moral standard, evil. You don't have to remove all emotion when looking into such things but it is a good idea to be emotionally detached since how something feels doesn't necessarily correlate to whether or not it's true.



I must assume that they're believing out of a want to believe.


What we desire to believe is entirely irrelevant to what is actually true. A good habit to get into is being MORE skeptical of ideas that you want to believe that way your affinity toward the idea won't get in the way of discerning whether or not its actually true. The more you want to believe a claim the more skeptical of it you should be ESPECIALLY as it pertains to extraordinary claims such as those made by most religions.



What am I suppose to do? How am I suppose to look at this and feel that enlightenment? I'm willing to believe, but my mind and heart say no. What should I look at it with?


It's all up to you of course but I would recommend trying to keep most emotion out of what you believe as much as possible.

I spent years after leaving Christianity following what felt right, wandered into all sorts of New Age beliefs that really did make me feel good but at the end of the day I had no real reason to believe them other than false comfort and a bit of emotional stimulation. That same stimulation I once thought of as spiritual is still available to me now as an atheist, so don't feel bad if you fail to believe in God or any other supernatural being.

Most importantly, don't take any of what I say or what anyone else says as "Gospel", question everything and think for yourself

edit on 15-4-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


It's great that you are not willing to believe. Believing means that you have not found out for yourself, you would only be a follower if you take someone else's word for it.
If you would like to investigate into other ways of seeing the world check out non-duality. I will recommend some speakers who have awakened. They may help you to find what to look with:
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
Just a few to get you started.
Don't try to believe or disbelieve, just see what it feels like.
edit on 15-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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I must thank all of you for all the information you've given me. I'm very grateful for all your insight. I feel the need to point out that I'm not trying to make myself believe the JW beliefs, or any other beliefs. I'm just trying to look at all this as objectively as possible, including considering the possibility that there's a subjective nature that has objective merit(The point of this topic).


Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
What we desire to believe is entirely irrelevant to what is actually true. A good habit to get into is being MORE skeptical of ideas that you want to believe that way your affinity toward the idea won't get in the way of discerning whether or not its actually true. The more you want to believe a claim the more skeptical of it you should be ESPECIALLY as it pertains to extraordinary claims such as those made by most religions.


That's very much what I was saying regarding that. I'm searching for the truth, not delusion. Many people probably are happier(or at least think they're happier) believing in delusion. Maybe that's ok, but that's not for me.


Originally posted by autowrench
Religion, the book variety, is for the weak of mind and Spirit, those who need above all things something bigger than they are. Let me provide you with a few links, to prove what I am sating to you.


While I will read these, as I've read many facts causing me to feel the bibles factuality is unlikely, the point of this thread was to set the facts aside, and be on the topic of if there was any viable 'proof' besides ones rested in objective facts.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
If you would like to investigate into other ways of seeing the world check out non-duality. I will recommend some speakers who have awakened. They may help you to find what to look with:



Thank you for those, I will watch them.


-
I guess there is no simple answer here, but I must say you all were very helpful.

Thanks again for your time.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


"seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened". if you haven't found logical answers in the bible or from other Christians then maybe you are looking in the wrong place. I suggest asking God the creator Himself.






EXACTLY!!


Always go to the source.


Man is not the Most High and the Most High isn't man.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Well done on being honest with yourself. It's not easy to be so critical of one's own motives but when you are, it brings you a lot of inner peace and self confidence.

All my life I was told what to believe, but never why. And when it occurred to me that I had no legitimate reasons for believing in the bible, clearly it was wrong to force myself.

The odd thing is, as much as you might try to explain that to the religious, they'll always accuse you of "rebelling". As if we'd want to deliberately send ourselves to hell just because it's "cool" (or as cool as they think we think it is). Believing that there is a god and then purposely rebelling is insane but they'll accuse you of it anyway.

On a wider note, faith of any kind can be dangerous intellectually. In a religious sense, its people claiming to know things about reality they couldn't possibly actually know, rather just presume it. That's effectively what they're driving at when they tell you to think with your heart - "stop thinking rationally and just presume that we are right." It's upsetting sometimes that people so easily fall for this.


You're going to live a better life having higher standards of "truth". So stay strong and don't let anyone dictate to you what to believe.
edit on 17-4-2011 by Welfhard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Staying in your heart has a different meaning to me, though there is a relation. What they are saying is to live by faith, to believe, trust, see more than the world around us, and reach into our love. But normally people stop short on what this means, they don't fully understand, and they take the whole bible on, and the two different pathways in it are like Joachim,and Boaz, or the checkerboard floor of Soloman's Temple, they are opposites.
The path of wars and putting the infants of the conquered race to death lest they contaminate the good seed, and your disobedient teens to death is not the path Yeshua showed. The duality, right from wrong, is everywhere, even in our religions.

We're meant to feel challenged by them, to notice the stirrings in our hearts when we read them, to chose.

We're meant to seek here, to go within, to connect within through our hearts, our feelings of unconditional love, to our Infinite Self (there is No Time, its an illusion, a program in your mind based on orbit. In reality, Infinity cant have measurements. Anywhere you place a dot, on an infinite line, trying to guess at, this is center, there is none, for the same endlessness is all around that dot placement, even if you move it along the line, or backwards. There is no place you can put that dot and not get the same immearurable endlessness in all directions. The infinity within a grain of sand or atom is equal to that within a star, and all are equally endless to the infinity outside these things! No bigger/smaller, higher/lower, past/future!) Time is All At Once! So we're learning lessons and progressing. So, connect within to Higher Self, to the Family, to All That Is Good and Love. If you're a Christian, to Father/Yeshua, I see Father/Mother, Yeshua and Family.

Meditate, Pray. Prayer is phoning home, not rote prayers, but pour your heart out, and ask for help to gently see the blocks to love in your life.

Try to stay in your heart 24 hours a day, 24/7, and see everyone with love and tendersness, and Understanding. When you do this, harsh words and slip ups, arguments will stand out like a sore thumb. You become more conscious of the errors and the programs or negativity we have running in our heads, in our biosuits from birth even, the hardwiring. You have a quick temper like dad's say, who is a work a holic and hardwired to be more reactive, or you're slow to anger but stubborn and slow to change your mind like mom. These are things hardwired. We're here with AI chips in the brain, and also, with all the baggage of the world fed to us, in our homes, schools and religions, and by all the media, governments.

Take the world out of our eyes and live by the heart. Learn that there are things that are Love, and Goodness and things that are not, even in the bible. Pray about it. Ask to see, Jesus said that those who asked for healing of their sight and hearing would be given this, and they would healed in Matthew 13, the Good Seed/Sower Parables. This is called waking up/awareness, or in the Matrix, the red pill.

Its about Love. A love that doesnt judge, doesnt hurt, could never harm even one who is harming you, turns the other cheek, sees through the world and the temporal and sees infinity and the spirit. Cares deeply, walks with others and carries their burdens, goes the extra mile. Judges no one.

Theres two different stories or paths in the bible.

Stay in the heart. All our programs are in our mind. Its hard to do.

When you do read the bible or any religious manuscript or anything really, try to see through the negative passages or codign and see if there is a really light filled positive lesson to learn in them. Know alot of things are metaphors, and we don't have to follow the majority in how they interpret.

Strive to see the Highest Love and Goodness, and Understanding possible and just try to stay in the heart.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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I believe that the Metaphysical approach of life, will work out for most people, Necessarily for those who have a more rational mind. For the Metaphysical approach involves the things we observe and conclude. For Mystics are the scientist of the Past and Scientist are the Mystics of the Now. People tend to view this stuff as "Hippy" stuff anyways. Maybe that will work for you instead of arguing with these Christians about Creationism and such. It's great that your open minded!



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


The bible tells us that we are to recieve revelation,line upon line and precept upon precept.
another words,just like in your formal education, you did not learn fractions before you learned to add.
Some of God's words are considered milk for babes,and some meat for the mature, but you cannot expect to comprehend meat before comprehending milk.

I think it would be best to leave any denominations teaching out of it, for example, I was raised in a denomination
that taught a certain aspect about God (the trinity)
although I never really questioned that belief, and still wasn't, when I began to find myself praying for revelation about who God really is,

And I asked him to lead me to the truth of who he is,I began reading the bible while consciously,pushing back any former teaching, and as I began reading that way,and asking for guidance, I started noticing scriptures that I had read hundreds of times before, that now contradicted the trinity doctrine, and believe me, that was not easy to swallow.

I guess what I am saying is,ask for God to give you revelation as you read and do not start out with a part of the bible that you are not meant to comprehend before comprehending the simple.
The first four gosples in the N.T. are a good start.
edit on 17-4-2011 by infojunkie2 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by infojunkie2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Friend, I know the local Christian crew will jump right over here and try to convert you into their little cult, but you have seen the truth. The bible is made up of many stories and myths from all over, and in many different times and places. It is written like a grade school kid is trying to describe ET beings coming down and interacting with their creations, humankind. Religion, the book variety, is for the weak of mind and Spirit, those who need above all things something bigger than they are. Let me provide you with a few links, to prove what I am sating to you.

Sumer Religion was Handed Down by Extraterrestrials

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

Exposing Christianity

New Living Translation EXPOSED!

God's Mistakes

Bible Absurdities

Bible Atrocities

A List of Biblical Contradictions

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors

Christians are hypocrites

Myths surrounding Jesus' birth

Gods and Religions on Planet Earth

How to wire your brain for religious ecstasy

What the Devil? Prince of Darkness Is Misunderstood, Says UCLA Professor

WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?

Spacecraft and Extraterrestrials in the Bible and History


Just like you jumping in with your proselytizing.and you call christians hypocrites.simple amazing
.especially when the op is not asking for a reason to not believe in God.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Peter Gabriel - In Your Eyes (Radio Edit / Single Version)

Instead of letting the world affect you, Reach out from the Inside. And be the sunlight, be the sun, be your infinite star, become the adults watching over, grow your love and consciousness. Reach out from the inside!!! 11 11! or 1!
edit on 17-4-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Daniel 11:33

And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder.


Psalm 119:130

The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.

Luke 12:12

For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Timothy 3:7

Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Job 28:12-13

“But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? Man does not know its worth, and it is not found in the land of the living.

1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:8

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


I could go on and on and on and on but you should just read the Bible yourself. All the proof you need is in it.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by graphuto
 


What's the point of quoting scripture to someone who doubts the authenticity of the bible? It's like quoting star trek to someone.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto
 


What's the point of quoting scripture to someone who doubts the authenticity of the bible? It's like quoting star trek to someone.


If one would actually read what I've quoted it's pretty hard to doubt the authenticity. Why does the Bible have a passage relating to almost every possible human experience?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by graphuto
 


It's pretty easy to doubt the authenticity of the bible which is why less and less people today believe in it, made possible by biblical scholarship. Ever read the apocrypha?

And the bible has to talk about human experiences, it wouldn't be a holy text if it didn't. It's the same for the book of Mormon or the Rig Veda.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


If you had actually read what I posted you would see that authenticity is really a moot point. These aren't "factual claims" that I have quoted, they're statements regarding the very nature of man.

1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.


I'm quoting scripture in order to create a kind of metaphor regarding the OP, "reading with your mind, not your heart.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by graphuto
 


But your question to me was "Why does the Bible have a passage relating to almost every possible human experience?"

The other thing, if you don't assume the bible is true, then the advice about 'reading with your heart' its bad advice. The op paints a picture where people are just trying to get him to disregard rational thought and accept it all for no reason. That's insidious, don't you think?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:06 AM
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OP might I suggest the Scientific Method to you? I have found it is the only reliable way to differentiate between probabilities. While everyone could give you endless stories of what is true how do you determine which idea is the most likely to be true? In a world where there are THOUSANDS of god's and religions how do you determine which if any is the correct one to believe in?

The Scientific method. When used properly it will not lie to you. It essentially removes your heart from the decision making process. It eliminates any bias that you might have by trying to interpret or twist words around to try and use them to your advantage. It forces you to take things for face value as they are whether you like it or not. It ends up being the cold hard reality that will tell you truth no matter how much you do not want to hear it.

IF you seek truth and logic then research the Scientific method and how it will help you NOT read with your heart.

WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING

You may not like what you find and there is no way to go back to your previous beliefs once you unlock and open this door and pass through it. Make sure that what you really seek is the truth before you decide to start down this path. It is dangerous, nearly everyone will attempt to move you off this path and there are so very few who are on it. Even the most powerful men belonging to the most secretive societies in the world are not fearless enough to come this far. You will be required to think without the element of your own desires or wants. You will be demanded to eliminate yourself from the scientific process. I wish you well in whichever decision that you make.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by graphuto
If one would actually read what I've quoted it's pretty hard to doubt the authenticity.


Seems to me that the only people who believe the bible after reading it are the people who believed it before reading it. I have never met anyone who didn't already believe (mainly through culture and upbringing) who read the bible and suddenly was a believer.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by rogerstigers
 


I don't expect you to believe me for one second, it happened here, something happened that was mind blowing, life was suddenly sweet and it was so out of this world that i went on to read all sorts of religions to try to make sense of it.
I didn't read the bible before, i read it after.
But at no point was i or will i be a believer.
edit on 18-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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I've been trying not to keep this thread more alive than it needs to be, though I do appreciate all the comments that have been posted on here since.

I want to bring up though, a change of events. My parents are coming to the conclusion, that being able to see both sides behind things is hindering me seeing "the truth." I need to see only information that the Watchtower corporation deems fit.

I don't know, I strongly disagree with this mindset. Jehovas Witnesses strongly teach suppressing other ideas. It goes completely against how I've always believed religious beliefs should be decided.

Just sharing this, I may lose my ability to be a regular ATSer sometime soon.



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