Scientific falsehoods in the Bible

Originally posted by havok
This country is drowning in debt and you're worried about Bible 'falsehoods'?

We are all going to die and potentially be tortured for eternity and your worried about current fiscal matters?


See how that works...take something you don't deem important and ridicule it by suggesting something you do find important somehow trumps it.


So, in the grand scheme of things, lets say for a moment all the bible stuff is dead on accurate to the letter...what is more important, knowledge on how to live in eternal bliss and peace..alternative being total and complete torture and misery for eternity...
or a temporary balancing of national checkbooks.

Right...so, next time...how bout addressing the topic at hand verses come in and try to somehow feel better than the convo by posting irrelevant replys...ktksbie

Originally posted by kove400
We arent all knowing, so how can we explain everything?

I recommend you watch some videos by Kent Hovind on his theories of the Earth, or Ken Ham. It will help to clear up some things.

edit on 14-4-2011 by kove400 because: (no reason given)

If as you say "Only the Father Yahuwah can explain, the Designer of everything, why it works and how it works. Humans know less than 1% of the total understanding of the universe. Think about it were not eternal, how can we explain the eternal?" Then how can Messers Hovind and Ham explain to me anything about the Bible? Unless of course these two are Gods with the same knowledge as...well God. Going by your rule of thumb that mere mortals cannot understand the meaning of the Bible.

So....they're Gods then. That makes three.

But then, if they are Gods and they must be in order to explain the meaning of the Bible going by the above rule of thumb.......but hold on a moment....the Bible states there is but one God..... but these two chaps are Gods too, I mean they have to be to have the knowledge to explain......

*cue Robbie the Robot blow the fusebox type scene*

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

Originally posted by kove400
First off yes there seems to many inconsistencies with our modern day science. But remember, the scriptures are not written to be 100% literal, only those who have the gift of the Set-Apart Spirit given to us from the Father Yahuwah, can actually understand its meaning. Sort of like, can a computer technician really explain everything about how the computer is built and how it functions, or can the Manufacturer or Designer really explain it to you.

You were saying...

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
Just as you struggle with reason and comprehension so too were those who transcribed and TRANSLATED the word of GOD guilty.

Which is exactly why we don't put any trust into the bible.

If a deity wanted to give us divine revelations, he wouldn't play telephone with us. Unless, of course, his intention was to create doubt and disbelief.

please delete

Yes He did design evil and Satan and everything. Im not a Christian I dont believe in their non sense. But thats the way it is. You don't believe me?? Then just wait till judgment day, it will happen just warning you.

reply to post by Kryties


Would the Creator Yahuwah be that All powerful if we could figure out how He made it? Does the computer tell the Engineer what he should be doing to make him or does the Engineer tell the computer how its to be made?

Believe what you want, you have the choice. Im only saying, He wouldn't be all that great if we figured out we were in a 10 trillion lightyear globe or expanse with water around it and thats it. We would discover we are limited and life would be boring cause we would have nothing else out in space to discover.

Originally posted by kove400
reply to post by Kryties

 

Does the computer tell the Engineer what he should be doing to make him or does the Engineer tell the computer how its to be made?

Thats not the best point to use, as we move into the era of the technological singularity and computers out pace our human brain...
en.wikipedia.org...

Out of Chos came order and into chaos will it all return.

"all things come to be and into it they are resolved in a final state" Aristotle

Rather a rude and indigested mass:
A lifeless lump, unfashion'd, and unfram'd,
Of jarring seeds; and justly Chaos nam'd.
No sun was lighted up, the world to view;
No moon did yet her blunted horns renew:
Nor yet was Earth suspended in the sky,
Nor pois'd, did on her own foundations lye:
Nor seas about the shores their arms had thrown;
But earth, and air, and water, were in one.
Thus air was void of light, and earth unstable,
And water's dark abyss unnavigable

"The Gods are real, not as persons, but as vehicles of power. Briefly, it may be explained that the personification of a particular type of cosmic power in the form of a God or Goddess, carried out by believers and worshippers over many centuries, builds that God-form or Magical Image into a potent reality on the Inner Planes, and makes it a means by which that type of cosmic power may be contacted."
Gerald Gardner (1959)

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

If God is omnipotent. Would he be able to create a boulder that would be too heavy for him to lift?

Originally posted by JohnGeeTee
If God is omnipotent. Would he be able to create a boulder that would be too heavy for him to lift?

asking "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?" is just as much nonsense as asking "Can God draw a square circle?" The logical contradiction here being God's simultaneous ability and disability in lifting the rock (the statement "God can lift this rock" must have a truth value of either true or false, it cannot possess both). Therefore the question (and therefore the perceived paradox) is meaningless. Nonsense does not suddenly acquire sense and meaning with the addition of the two words, "God can" before it
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by coyotepoet


Wow, I can't believe this crap (no offense to you, we all write crap sometimes) actually got all those stars. I'm sorry I didn't respond to the original post, but I didn't realize there had been a reply. I should check my reply box more often. I do try to get around to replying to everyone who replies to me.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
As I state below, I am not a Christian and have no desire to argue for the rightness of the Bible.

Well, that's good...as there is very little argument for the scientific validity of the book.

So the funny thing about this list is that you are using a literal interpretation of the Bible to argue against someone else's literal interpretation of the bible.

...um...literal is the interpretation I'm going for unless there's a good reason to not go for it. I'm not going to believe that there was actually a good Samaritan or a prodigal son, but the Bible treats the events of Noah as fact throughout the whole book with various references. Unless you can give me a particular reason to not interpret them literally, then I don't know what the point is.

Understand also that I am not a Christian arguing for the “rightness” of the Bible. I have no investment in proving the Bible accurate but I call them like I see them

Then I bemoan your poor judgment

Plants existed before the Sun and Moon (Genesis 1:11-16)
The Earth is created before the Sun (Genesis 1)
The Sun and Moon are set in a physical firmament above the Earth (Genesis 1:16-17)

See my images earlier in the thread regarding a sacred geometry interpretation of Genesis.

...so...it's inaccurate, but it's meant to symbolize something. Because, you know, that's a legitimate excuse for why it's wrong.

When understood as a metaphorical description of that process it makes a lot more sense. Please go through those images where I specifically address the seed and fruit issue. Likewise heavens and earth are meant to represent the divisions, not necessarily literal earth. All of the above verses are understood through sacred geometry and not to be taken in a literal sense.

Why? I'm sorry, but you're saying they can be taken as sacred geometry, but why did you decide to? I'm all for someone saying that X part of the book is supposed to be a metaphor for something...but why?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Frankly, that image explains nothing...and in the post containing the image you pretend that Moses is a historical figure instead of a fictional one...

The Moon is a/produces light (Genesis 1:16, Isaiah 13:10)

Actually what was said was a greater light to rule the day and a lesser light to rule the night. It doesn't matter that the moon is reflective, it is still a lesser light. And Isaiah says “The sun will be darkened ...and the moon will not cause it's light to shine,” which would of course happen if the sun were darkened.

...and in the Biblical text the line in Isaiah uses language for the moon shining light for it...so they're wrong.

Show me a child alive today, who prior to learning that the Moon is a reflector does not believe that the moon produces it's own light.

So...your argument is that the ancient Hebrews were wrong? That's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it?

Global flood (Genesis..mentioned several other times in later books)

Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.
These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided. The overwhelming consistency among flood legends found in distant parts of the globe indicates they were derived from the same origin (the Bible's record), but oral transcription has changed the details through time.
Perhaps the second most important historical account of a global flood can be found in a Babylonian flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the Biblical and Babylonian accounts are compared, a number of outstanding similarities are found that leave no doubt these stories are rooted in the same event or oral tradition.

...the various stories originate at various periods and few deal with global floods instead of local ones.

It is generally accepted that the Gilgamesh story was the prototype for the Biblical flood story. While this site states that the Bible was the origin for these flood stories, which I don't agree with, it is obvious that cultures around the world had a similar experience.

Stories aren't evidence of an event happening, anyone who frequents a conspiracy forum should realize that.

And the similar experience? Local flooding. It's a mythic structure. Take event/thing/creature, make it bigger/better/scarier. Flood + myth = global flood. Hammer + myth = Mjolnir. Snake + myth = dragon. It's not that hard to decipher.

From the web page Flood legends around the world

Again, doesn't matter. Where's the physical evidence of a global flood? The evidence that we would expect to see from our vast knowledge of geology is entirely absent.

Humanity at a time of civilization which would have enabled large scale construction projects shared a single language (Genesis 11) Diverse language happened instantly rather than gradually (Genesis 11)

This thread has an interesting take on things. It is not the first time that I have heard about this in relation to telepathy and ET intervention.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...ok, so idle speculation built upon the synthesis of two other bits of idle speculation. Nothing concrete, no evidence.

The Hebrew population in Egypt somehow goes from dozens to millions in a few hundred years. (Exodus)
Hares and coneys are ruminants (Leviticus 11:5-6)
Ostriches are apparently entirely inattentive parents (Job 39:13-16)

No arguments and no desire to contend this information.

Because they're all wrong.

God's cure for lepers (Leviticus 14:2-52)

Sounds a little loopy but no different than some alchemical practices, which have been found to be sound.

Alchemical practices have not been found to be sound. We abandoned alchemy for a reason, it was superseded by chemistry and physics. Alchemy is the furthest thing in the world from sound.

Snakebites are cured by a brass serpent on a pole (Numbers 21:8)

Not just snakes but “fiery serpents.” Here is where I slip into my own suppositions but I have long contended that some of this kind of thing, along with the Nefilim, Elohim, and Son's of God marrying the daughters of men stuff was really about a time when ET's walked openly on the earth and were venerated as Gods. Perhaps the fiery serpents were among these and the brass serpent on a pole was advanced tech, much like the Pyramids are thought to be (as opposed to burial chambers.)

...no, the making of a 'fiery serpent' involves the mounting of a bronze cast of a serpent. You have to into the original Hebrew of it there, unless my translation is mistaken (which it may be).

Giants (way too many passages Numbers, Deuteronomy, 2 Samuel, Amos)
Dragons (Deuteronomy 32:33, Psalms 148:7)
Lots of fantastical creatures used to exist including satyrs, cockatrices, fiery flying serpents, etc (Isaiah)

There have been skeletons of giants found at archaeological digs (though in this age of photoshop...) There have been artistic representations of giants found. See my comments above about Ets

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...
www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

And yet none of these supposed skeletons is there for inspection....because they don't exist. They're either frauds of honest mistakes.

The Sun apparently moves and can be made to stand still so that people can sneak attack others at night (Joshua 10:12-13)
Either the Earth stopped rotating and moved backward a bit or the Sun moved backward on its own...well, we know what the Bible says about the relationship between the two. (2 Kings 20:11)

This was also preceded by hailstones. Perhaps the attacks were timed at this point rather than being made to happen for the attack. Like the flood stories, many cultures around the world have stories of the sun standing still, which is precisely what would happen during a pole shift. There are also cultural legends of a point in antiquity when the sun rose in the west and set in the east. Which would be the same phenomenon. Graham Hancock talks about this in several of his books as well

Sahagun -
The Spanish savant who came to America a generation Columbus and gathered the traditions of the natives, wrote that at the time of one cosmic catastrophe the sun rose only a little way over the horizon and remained there without moving: the moon also stood still. (22).

The Andeans record a myth-story that the sun stayed away for twenty hours. This event is said to have occurred under the reign of Yupanqui Pachacuti II, the fifteenth ruler of the old time.

In the Mexican 'Annals of Cuauhtitlan' or 'Codex Chimpalpopoca' - the history of the empire in Culhuacan and Mexico, written in Nahua-Indian in the sixteenth century - it is related that during a cosmic catastrophe that occurred in the remote past, the night did not end for an extended period of time. (22).

And from Asia - The canons of the Chinese emperor. (2,400 BC ?) - 'In the lifetime of Yao, the sun did not set for ten full days and the entire land was flooded (by an immense wave), that reached the sky'. 

It is important to recognise that all these stories were recorded from different locations on earth. On one side of the Earth people record that the Sun stayed in the sky, while on the other side, the stores are that the Sun stayed away.

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

Wow, you keep citing the same website...and it's really full of crap. You do realize that none of those reports feature corroborating reports from other parts of the world, right? If the sun moved in the sky then there should have been reports of such phenomenon in more than one place. I mean, it's not exactly the sort of thing that only one person would notice in a hemisphere.

The Earth has pillars...I guess instead of being hung it's placed.(1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6,26:11,38:4-6...actually, a lot of places)

The Earth doesn't move.(1 Chronicles 16:30, Job 38:4-6, Psalms 93:1, 96:10...and a lot of other places where it mentions that the Earth is set on foundations)

Again, like the sacred geometry think in terms of esoteric metaphor

Except that there's no reason for us to think that it's an esoteric metaphor beyond you claiming it is.

People think in their heart (Esther 6:6, Isaiah 10:7)

Heart–Brain Interactions:
The heart and brain maintain a continuous two-way dialogue, each influencing the other's functioning. The signals the heart sends to the brain can influence perception, emotional processing and higher cognitive functions. This system and circuitry is viewed by neurocardiology researchers as a "heart brain."

www.heartmath.com...

Their studies using HeartMath techniques and technology have been published in many peer reviewed journals including; The American Journal of Cardiology, Harvard Business Review and Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. Additional studies are currently taking place in many institutions such as Mayo Clinic, Arizona State University, University of Northampton, Northampton, England and VA Palo Alto Health Care System.

Heartmath's research, published in many peer reviewed journals with studies going on at ASU and Mayo Clinic has found that we do “think with our heart” It could also be a metaphorical for being guided by our emotions.

Here's another quote on it:

With his revolutionary research the University of Montreal’s pioneer neurocardiologist Dr. J. Andrew Armour first introduced the concept of a functional heart brain in the 1990’s. This brain in the heart – just as the brain in the digestive tract – may also act independently of the brain in the head. The size of this brain, according to Boulder Creek, California’s Institute of HeartMath, is as great as a number of the principle areas of the brain in the head. Studies discussed in Brain and Values,  have shown that the consistency of the rhythm found in the heart brain is capable of changing – sometimes in spectacular fashion - how effectively the thinking brain functions. In theory that means that what occurs on a feeling level, has the capacity to deeply influence what occurs on a thinking level.

...except that doesn't matter. The stomach has the same relationship with the brain, so do all your organs on some level....but you don't think with those organs. Thoughts are not occurring in your heart. If that were the case, people with artificial hearts wouldn't be able to think or would have an impairment in thinking.

The Earth has four corners (Isaiah 11:12, Ezekial 7:2)

This is a reference to the Law of 4: North, South, East, West; Air, Water, Earth, Fire, etc.

And yet it's still wrong.

Snails melt (Psalms 58:8)

It says the snail melts away as it goes. In reality, the snail and slug leave a trail of slime in its wake, which could be taken to mean the snail is “melting away as it goes”

...no, it leaves a trail of slime behind. I wish I could show it to you (it's on my girlfriend's laptop), but I'll describe a scene I saw at the zoo while on a little vacation last week. A penguin was lying on its belly, fast asleep, with a giant smear of feces in a big white line trailing right behind it. Would my conclusion that the penguin 'melted away'? No. It produced excrement. Producing something to aid in movement isn't the same as 'melting away'

The Earth is definitively flat (Daniel 4:10-11, 20)

Firstly he is describing a vision.

And Daniel isn't the only place where things work as if the Earth is flat...

Secondly, it does not say the earth is flat, it says there is a tree that grew that could be seen by all. This also could be understood metaphorically or esoterically

Or it could be meant literally.

The stars are tiny objects that can fall out of the sky and be stomped upon (Daniel 8:10)

Perhaps meteorites?

Well, meteorites aren't stars.

The Sun moves around the Earth (Psalms 19:4-6)

This is just a description of the sun going from one side of the horizon to the other, which it appears to do to one standing on the ground.

Yep, and that was as far as the science of the Bible went...it was just constantly wrong about everything because it was written by a bunch of bronze age nomads.

You mention Giants and Dragons as false, were there not dinosaurs at one time?

I could've sworn someone dug up some bones..

Snails do indeed sort of melt when you put salt on them..

and Pi rounded does indeed equal 3

The church believed the earth to be flat, that is why the cast aside Galileo

your other points..tuche

reply to post by OnceReturned


What's the point? There are people who claim that the Bible is a source of knowledge about the natural world. This is the same book that says that the little trail left behind a snail is it melting! There are some people who are exposed to arguments that claim to show that the Bible is scientifically accurate who are unaware of the portions of the Bible I am highlighting. Maybe someone will find this thread and actually realize that the argument that the Bible is scientifically accurate is wrong.

reply to post by EL1A5


...giant people. And the whole dragons/dinosaurs thing? There's no evidence of humans coexisting with dinosaurs. There are tens of millions of years between the last giant dinosaurs and the first humans.

...and you added some stuff.

The claim in the Bible (had you read the referenced passage) was that they "melt as they go along"...as in that little trail of slime is melted snail instead of a secreted substance.

And you don't round Pi. Pi rounded out to anything less than the 2nd place is just 3.1 or 3

wow....really?.....ok, you do understand the bible was written by man....translated a million gazillion times (by man) and what we read today is probably a lot like playing "telephone" as a child.
(everyone stands in a line and passes along a secret the 1st one whispers in the next one's ear...resulting in a comical mutation of the original sentence at the end....sometimes it ends completely different)
God is.....and the basic ideas are good....why nit pick at details....i also think churches do this as well....go with your conscience...if u got one...i know mine has always led me correctly....i like to believe that is God talking to me.

reply to post by sprocket2cog


No, it's a legitimate concern. The omnipotence paradox highlights the simple question "Is an omnipotent being subject to logic?"

...but that's not what this thread is about. It's not about arguments for or against any particular conception of any deity, it's about the lack of scientific credibility of one book, the Bible.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Maybe someone will find this thread and actually realize that the argument that the Bible is scientifically accurate is wrong.

You think those people care? They readily (perhaps unconsciously) refuse to accept reality when it contradicts their faith. I'm pretty sure one more post about it in the Internet will not make any difference. Vast majority of those people were brainwashed in their youth so badly that they are unable to see the world as anything other than what they were told (for if they doubted they'd end up in hell, like they're told), no matter what. It's a lost cause.

Their minds are so twisted, that they see no problem in some parts of the Bible being taken literally (like the anti gay stuff - which totally contradicts Jesus' golden rule), while at the same time some other stuff (like ban of people with bad eye sight approaching the altar) somehow doesn't matter.

fyi.....the bible is the only written book that has not only survived the longest but is the most worldwide known , etc etc....there HAS GOT to be more knowledge in i6t than any other book, i believe until someone can do better- stop putting it down.....just my opinion

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by sprocket2cog

 

...but that's not what this thread is about. It's not about arguments for or against any particular conception of any deity, it's about the lack of scientific credibility of one book, the Bible.

SCIENTIFIC CREDIBILITY?! haha! that is basically an oxymoron, the church and science have been at it for centuries, of course there are going to be disagreements.