Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo – A case study in the reinvention of the wheel

I'm sorry but this guy hasn't debunked anything..

so what's up with the thread title ay? misleading people.
just a bunch of information brought up.
there is no real evidence that this is a hoax.

so many people just suck up things like it's a lolly pop.

Originally posted by Be4sTXMoDe
I'm sorry but this guy hasn't debunked anything..

So you still believe that this memo is "just released", as stated in other threads here and on various other websites (including of several newspapers)? Or do you accept at least that claim has been debunked?

Originally posted by game over man
I agree with the OP, but why is Guy Hottel's memo on the FBI's website. Why is it singled out, and not clumped in with all the 100's of pages of UFO reports in the UFO section?

I don't know, but perhaps (and I'm just speculating here) it's because of the number of requests for that particular document. The content of the FBI's Freedom Of Information Act webpages has, as with several other government bodies, always tended to include the most frequently requested documents. Basically, it cuts down costs and effort when you reply to the nth request Freedom Of Information Act request for disclosure of documents relating to UFOs when the FBI can simply reply "see our website".

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Fantastic job in debunking my thread about the memo. www.abovetopsecret.com... I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the " Just released" part of my thread title that may have been a little artistic licence on my part however the memo was part of a batch of documents that have just been made available ( as far as I am aware)

The bureau has made thousands of files available in a new online resource called The Vault.

Among them is a memo to the director from Guy Hottel, the special agent in charge of the Washington field office in 1950.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

and certainly the case is new to me ,but then I am not a ufo expert. Your thread is fascinating and its why I put

( if true).

because theses thing invariably turn out to be false a hoax or a misunderstanding. I am certainly not somebody who blindly believes everything if anything I read. However this story was of great interest and I knew others would be very interested and would make up their own minds on whether it was true or not. You in my mind have proved beyond doubt that the memo is true but unfortunately the cases it speaks of is a hoax. Altogether a fascinating case that only goes to highlight how complex these type of things are and to question everything. Well done great job

I wish I could star all these posts TWICE. I was already ignoring all these threads and had not been at ATS as much because of the absolute INSANITY and IGNORANCE surrounding this particular thing.

Please explain next how Japan is probably not sinking into the ocean, but does, in fact, have BROKEN WATER MAINS!!!!

Thanks for putting this together -

Originally posted by Schkeptick
I wish I could star all these posts TWICE. I was already ignoring all these threads and had not been at ATS as much because of the absolute INSANITY and IGNORANCE surrounding this particular thing.

Please explain next how Japan is probably not sinking into the ocean, but does, in fact, have BROKEN WATER MAINS!!!!

Thanks for putting this together -

I think you are in the wrong thread.

Originally posted by tarifa37
Fantastic job in debunking my thread about the memo. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks tarifa37.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the " Just released" part of my thread title that may have been a little artistic licence on my part however the memo was part of a batch of documents that have just been made available ( as far as I am aware)

I think your thread title fairly reflected the numerous press articles stating/suggesting this was a new batch of documents. It's just that those press articles are wrong.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Good job Isaac and hopefully, thanks to this comprehensive thread, the misunderstanding about the Hottel memo won't occur again in another few years (like it seems to have a tendency of doing) - as I'm sure you're well aware, there are many other government documents in the public domain which certainly contain very intriguing information about the UFO subject -maybe we'd all be better off if everybody (including the corporate media) concentrated their efforts on those:

link

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
There is definitely some psychological phenomenon going on though you may have a better understanding of it than me. I'd say it involves things like selective memory and interpretation, confirmation bias, and a desire to believe, sometimes but not always bordering on having religious fervor.

Hey Arbitrageur, well said and, as well as 'true believers' who think everything is a UFO, I'm sure that description also applies to 'pathological cynics' who just pour derision and scorn onto the UFO subject - it seems both groups just rely on wilfull ignorance and lazy prejudice to shore up their beliefs without ever bothering to objectively educate themselves about the subject matter.

Originally posted by karl 12
Good job Isaac and hopefully, thanks to this comprehensive thread, the misunderstanding about the Hottel memo won't occur again in another few years (like it seems to have a tendency of doing)

Thanks for the kind words Karl, but you are more optimistic than me. I expect the same misunderstanding to happen time and time again regardless of anything you or I do...

as I'm sure you're well aware, there are many other government documents in the public domain which certainly contain very intriguing information about the UFO subject -maybe we'd all be better off if everybody (including the corporate media) concentrated their efforts on those:

link

Sure. I was thinking about pulling some of those documents together and asked just yesterday if anyone was aware of any existing compilations (online or offline) of documents falling within a certain category:
"A compilation of lies?"

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Brilliant Mr. Koi. You are a invaluable resource not only on ATS but among critical-thinkers.

There need to be more threads like this, not necessarily debunking UFO claims but about the history of the subject. Too many people interested in the subject know too little about the subject's history, causing situations like the FBI document debacle.

reply to post by IsaacKoi

Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo

A very well researched and written piece for consideration. I tip my hat to you!

The unfortunate truth of UFO studies is that regardless of what you may believe to be fact, it is quite often the result of deliberate efforts to create a specific path to be followed to a preferred conclusion. Making this even worse, is that both the pro and anti UFO camps engage in this kind of behavior and have been since the whole thing began.

Society has been pretty much led by the nose since even before Roswell, the Battle over LA, Cape Girardeau and the Foo Fighters of WW2.

What does this mean for the average Joe who simply wants the truth?

The only safe conclusion that one can reach today is that to believe anything at all is a risk and the only safe route is to... well, trust no one at all. Period.

*sigh*

At one time, I would argue here, at ATS, against what I saw as paranoia run amok, as there was thread after thread about disinfo agents and such. It seemed destined to rip the community asunder and destroy civilized debate. But to be quite honest, I am now sure that I was wrong in that view and that the web is not only stacked to the gills with people paid to scramble certain subject matter... that ATS itself may be nothing more than a storefront for the CIA or some other domestic security and/or intelligence apparatus.

I mean, what a better way to keep an eye on the most avid, knowledgeable conspiracy buffs in the world than to create a place specifically designed to attract them to in?

And like moths to a flame, we do indeed come.

Personally speaking, I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever, that UFOs are something more than Venus or temperature inversions or swamp gas. But beyond that, to arrive at any sharply defined conclusion... and then to dare to publicly espouse it, is a fool's errand that will lead you around the manic garden a hundred times before taking you to the eventual, painful, dead end.

Once again, great post and thanks for the time and effort!

Best

And people say ATS threads aren't what they used to be.

You sir, have just provided ample evidence to the contrary. Excellent job and a well-presented and informative piece.

It's difficult to add to what you've presented here, only to say that indeed, there are numerous cases of hoaxes resurfacing, and the media (and even researchers) often not doing their due diligence and just "running with it". This recent issue is a great example.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Be4sTXMoDe
I'm sorry but this guy hasn't debunked anything..

So you still believe that this memo is "just released", as stated in other threads here and on various other websites (including of several newspapers)? Or do you accept at least that claim has been debunked?

edit on 15-4-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)

I knew these were not a new release when they came out.....people just say new release on ATS when it is the first time they have heard of it.... I saw a youtube video with these memo's a long time ago......I will find it

Originally posted by Gazrok
Excellent job and a well-presented and informative piece.

Thanks Gazrok, and others, for the kind words.

I wasn't sure what reaction, if any, this piece would get. I'd had a pretty hostile response from some people on ATS in the other threads about the FBI's online "Vault"...

reply to post by warza


Thanks for the compliment WARZA. Ufology certainly has all the attributes of a religion: proponents and opponents (many fanatical) of a belief system based mostly on faith. Statistically about as many people have had religious visions as have witnessed UFOs. We seldom hear of the religious type because they're not usually shared with the public, being of a more personal nature. The rest of us either believe or disbelieve the hear-say evidence of others and act upon the information with a closed or open mind. Although I have never seen a flying saucer or similar craft, I really believe there are things out there people are observing. The amount of people reporting sightings is overwhelming, but what are they? AGAIN, WE NEED MORE PEOPLE POSTING LIKE OUR WONDERFUL BRIT!

I urge anyone interested in UFOs and aliens to read all the books and articles by John Keel and Jacques Vallee. They are available to read for free at “Scribd” online. The two I recommend are “Dimensions” by Vallee, and “The Cosmic Question: The Eighth Tower” by Keel. According to these authors' analyzes and perspectives, there's really nothing new concerning UFO/paranormal phenomenon (which MAY not be extraterrestrial) except the technological trappings and appearances which are periodically readjusted to fit the eras in which they manifest themselves. Both authors works are from a secular, objective viewpoint, with no religious biases and are well documented.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion. You are basing your argument on William
Moore's spurious argument. He never made the connection to Silas. You are repeating the official govt story.

I am much more inclined to believe Whitley Streiber who also investigated this memo and believes it to be real.

Signed, your pal Zarp

Originally posted by zarp3333
I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

That's fine.

Originally posted by zarp3333
You are basing your argument on William Moore's spurious argument. He never made the connection to Silas.

No, I'm not basing my argument on any argument by William Moore. In my post I DISAGREE with William Moore's article in several respects and have mildly criticised some skeptics for repeating William Moore's errors without checking the relevant Air Force documents (see my comments about one one part being "complete nonsense"). I put forward my own evidence for making a connection to Silas.

Originally posted by zarp3333
You are repeating the official govt story.

I'm not aware of the government giving any story (official or otherwise) to explain the Hottel memo. The Hottel memo was simply released, without any explanation from the FBI or any other government agency.

Originally posted by zarp3333
I am much more inclined to believe Whitley Streiber who also investigated this memo and believes it to be real.

Again, that's fine. Do you have a link to the evidence/investigation which persuaded you? I'd like to have a look at it.

Originally posted by zarp3333
Signed, your pal Zarp

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by redoubt


"Total paranoia is total awareness." Charles M. Manson

Who among us can say you're wrong? Again, faith is involved, even the legitimacy of this website is largely based on faith by it's members. Faith in God; faith in UFO's; faith in documents; faith in ATS; where does faith end? When one takes a course in philosophy one will find that faith in empirical evidence is even put into question. Like Mark Twain said: "Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you see." Is seeing really believing? The debunking of the document in question seems to point to that, but.... I have FAITH that Isaac is right on.

Thank You Issak. Another superlative job in presenting the facts to debunk the fraud.

Although many who need to believe, whether for personal reasons or, worse yet, financial reasons, will dismiss this because it refutes their desires, it stands on its own for anyone who has the ability to understand reality and employ critical thought with logic.

The memo was based completely on a hoax perpetrated by a convicted con man.

Springer...