Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo – A case study in the reinvention of the wheel

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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


UMMMM........sooooo.........Do aliens exist??????...............Have to ask..............




posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Wow, Isaac, that was quite the exposition. Thanks so much for sharing all your hard work and research here. That must have taken quite some time. This is the first I've heard of the story - and was really wondering if this might be the breakthrough document we've all been waiting for. Too bad about the let down, but the truth is always best. So many hucksters out there muddying the waters, but in spite of them, UFO's that defy rational explanation still continue to appear in the sky.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Studies, food, planet as a home, what more could you ask for. Wait till the pests that live there destroy themselves and move in. Ever notice people have seen UFOS a lot more since we started to use nuclear energy? Were sending out loud signals of "hey look at me over here just learnt how to blow a lot of # up" or” hey look at me im getting close to harnessing real power and evolve into the next energy age".

Either way none of us will really know, they may be messing with us through appearances or we may be wanting so bad to believe that we create or instil the belief in our mind of what we want to see in our reality. Who really knows, I know that when I look out there I realize that our whole race knows nothing, And anything you see here is a human creation, always has always will be.

Oh by the way while we were here talking about this the UN has decided against the AU and are going to stay in Libya until they kill or hang Kaddafi, reactors are killing our next generations in Japan, and all of our leaders are corrupt and killing us for their profit, bets and amusement. The planet is telling us to give it a break. The sun is sending out coronas larger than we have seen in a long time.

But I’m sure our Grays, Greens and E.T., are hiding in your closet waiting to stick a tracking device under your skin, up your butt, and down your throat then save the world from itself, and we'll all have a happily ever after that we've all wanted since our conception. The end.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by ARNOMANNN
reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


UMMMM........sooooo.........Do aliens exist??????...............Have to ask..............


Yes they exist, NEXT...
More to the point do they visit planet earth, i honestly believe they do but i am relying on gut instinct.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Grimalkin
GLAD YOU POSTED THIS! ATS NEEDS MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO KEEP THE BALANCE. I think the whole UFO subject is being affected by an emotional state brought about by wishful thinking in some observers. Emotions can certainly change one's perception of any phenomena observed. I really think a lot of the UFO mania today is being perpetuated by our enhanced abilities to record and communicate our observations. We all have good inexpensive cameras to take pictures of things we believe to be UFOs, and the means to communicate our findings and opinions on electronic forums which can disseminate information at the speed-of-light. This abundance of data would certainly appear to most people to be a great surge in UFO evidence, and in a way it is, because now more evidence can actually be recorded. In another way the statistics relating to instances of UFO activity, experiences and sightings may have remained a constant throughout the years; it's only our new ability to propagate related words and images that gives the perception of increased numbers. This amount of evidence, real, fake or mistakes of perception can get some people in an emotional frenzy, especially when they want to see UFOs or examine evidence "proving" their existence. i.e. DESIRE+HOPE=EMOTION; EMOTION+DOCUMENT OF QUESTIONABLE AUTHENTICITY=IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE OF ALIENS AND CRAFT. So, stay cool, stay objective, observe and study the data and available information and consider their sources.



Great post, Grimalkin. I totally agree with your words. I've gone through quite an intellectual life-shift in the past couple of years, and I now think the EXACT SAME approach should be taken by everyone on this planet regarding religious beliefs.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Thank you for the brilliant presentation.

Your examination of the FBI/alien documents deserves to be stickied at the top of the ATS front page as an example of the type of thorough and sourced research, reader friendly format and attention to detail that everyone posting on these boards should be striving to equal.

As many of the previous posters have already stated, this is the type of content that not only reflects well for ATS as a credible source, it does justice to serious ufology.

I am sure I speak for many of us with a genuine interest in the facts of the UFO enigma in thanking you for the time and effort put into your masterful contribution.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:46 PM
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Good God man!! Bravo!!
I see what you mean when you say free time. My free time post consist of maybe a paragraph or so, 5 min tops....
Thanks for all the info and time!!



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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where is the debunking ?? this neither proves nor disproves anything...pretty much back to square one



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by primetime2123
where is the debunking ?? this neither proves nor disproves anything...pretty much back to square one


The title is misleading, it attempts to debunk the memo as smoking gun, i just have no idea what it has to do with a wheel.
edit on 14-4-2011 by DomCheetham because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Thank-you so much for posting this topic and for your thorough analysis.

Others (including myself a couple of times) have tried to point out that the memo is describing claims made by someone else, not an official report or conclusion reached by the FBI, and that these reports are decades old and not "new." Hence my skepticism and statements that the memo proves nothing, but I honestly had no idea that the report also related to a proven hoax.

It just goes to show that when there is doubt, skepticism and investigation are (in my opinion) the next prudent steps. I think I've made obvious my tolerance and respect for people's beliefs. But beliefs that lack proof must be kept distinct from asserted facts (such as the topics claiming this memo was "proof" of anything.)

Note: For those asking what this topic debunks, it debunks claims that the memo itself proves extraterrestrial or interdimensional contact. We can still say such contact is a possibility (even if there is no proof of it,) but we cannot say that we have proof of it, or that the memo is proof of it, as some topics have claimed.
edit on 4/14/2011 by AceWombat04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Sigh.

This episode (and the rejection to some of my posts attempting to correct numerous misconceptions regarding the “new” FBI documents) has merely reinforced my view that I should be spending more of my limited spare time on my new hobby. I think I may have found a hobby in which the sociological and psychological insights which (I think) I’ve gained from reading over 1,000 UFO books and reading countless related documents/articles can start to pay real financial dividends…


I hate to say it, but someone already IS making real financial dividends. (looks to top left corner of the web page)

Without the diligence of persons like yourself, I would have stopped visiting ATS a while ago.

excellent post!.

b



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Although I believe that this FBI memo is indeed relating to the hoax made by the conman....Let me be a Devil's Advocate for a second. Is there truly any DIRECT evidence that the memo is related to this hoax, other than the stories being similar and being told at the right time period? Also it seems that the Air Force knew from the get go that this story was a fraud, why would they pass on such an obvious fraud to Hottel, who then wrote a memo that if not outright suggesting it was real, then at the very least does not even hint at the fact that it is a likely hoax? Something he would have undoubtedly learned from the Air Force Investigator.
edit on 14-4-2011 by bhornbuckle75 because: Giant Panda Bears


I agree with this. I understand the memo is a hoax, legally proven and proven by ufologist, years ago.

but, WHY?? would the FBI have this posted on their website?

vault.fbi.gov...

Unexplained Phenomenon




Dec 06, 2010 Guy Hottel Guy Hottel was a Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's Washington Field Office. The information concerning Mr. Hottel is in regard to a March 22, 1950, memo he sent to the Director concerning flying saucers.


All the other topics don't have a blurb under them. Not every person is a UFO researcher.

If Aliens don't visit us or Inter-dimensional Beings or humans from the future, or whatever, then why even have UFO's on the site. Where are the Santa Clause topics? Or Easter Bunny memos on FBI.GOV?

But hoax-ufo memos are ok? Seems strange to me.

The Vault




The Vault is our new electronic reading room, containing more than 2,000 documents that have been scanned from paper into digital copies so you can read them in the comfort of your home or office. Included here are more than 25 new files that have been released to the public but never added to this website; dozens of records previously posted on our site but removed as requests diminished; and files from our previous electronic reading room.





Please note: the content of the files in the Vault encompasses all time periods of Bureau history and do not always reflect the current views, policies, and priorities of the FBI. New files will be added on a regular basis, so please check back often.


vault.fbi.gov...

Going through the FOIA Exemptions, if the memo was real then it wouldn't be released, and I guess the blacked out portions of the memo are based off the Exemptions?

vault.fbi.gov...

So is this the FBI's response to the increase in UFO/Alien belief? Right? What is discussed all the time, "All these UFO tv shows and movies, they are preparing us...." But the FBI did not post this as a hoax or $50,000 law suit, they actually wrote a blurb under the link about flying saucers.

Since not everyone is an educated Ufologist, most people are going to "overreact" at this news. This whole thing still seems rather strange to me. I'm not sure what else can be done on this, but move on?

What is with page 52 on UFO part 13 of 16?

vault.fbi.gov...

On page 112 there is information on the Socorro Sighting?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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I agree with the OP, but why is Guy Hottel's memo on the FBI's website. Why is it singled out, and not clumped in with all the 100's of pages of UFO reports in the UFO section?

And if the Vault was recently updated, then why is this report not labeled as a hoax or any information pertaining to the facts presented by the OP? Everyone is expected to do their own research? Before you download the pdf, it says this memo is in regards to flying saucers...


^This is what I was trying to say above, sorry for the double post.
edit on 15-4-2011 by game over man because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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ok let me get this straight....out of the hundreds of millions of planets out there.....there is no other life?

and because of bunch of memos and papers that were put out years ago i'm not suppose to believe in alien life?

i don't get it......there is life out there and the odds are there is intelligent life.....so....

roswell and all the other conspiracy theories are moot points....

we are not alone deal with it......



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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of course its a hoax otherwise it wouldn't have been released. hopefully they'll release the good stuff soon. boy i just can't wait.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Applause great and well studied.!




I'm close to finishing a series of pieces about identifying the best UFO cases, which may answer your question. I've been working on these pieces for about 5 years now...



I'm very curious what the outcome of that thread will be?



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by ARNOMANNN
 


OP, what im about to show is CLEAR proof that UFOS do exist and they have crashed here



you can find that ON THE FBI website, page 9 10 11
page 11 describes seniir bushs time in the CIA, also do research on dr. roger leir! very interesting stuff
vault.fbi.gov...
edit on 15-4-2011 by santjime because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-4-2011 by santjime because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:49 AM
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Frankly, I’m completely fed up of reading complete nonsense and addressing these issues on an ad hoc basis in multiple threads

I tell you what then, don't read them and don't feel obliged to correct everyone.Not everyone on ATS has read everything regurading the ufo phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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If Aliens don't visit us or Inter-dimensional Beings or humans from the future, or whatever, then why even have UFO's on the site. Where are the Santa Clause topics? Or Easter Bunny memos on FBI.GOV?

But hoax-ufo memos are ok? Seems strange to me.







So is this the FBI's response to the increase in UFO/Alien belief? Right? What is discussed all the time, "All these UFO tv shows and movies, they are preparing us...." But the FBI did not post this as a hoax or $50,000 law suit, they actually wrote a blurb under the link about flying saucers.

Since not everyone is an educated Ufologist, most people are going to "overreact" at this news. This whole thing still seems rather strange to me. I'm not sure what else can be done on this, but move on?




What is with page 52 on UFO part 13 of 16?

vault.fbi.gov...





Why UFO's and not Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny? Well I think the whole Idea was that the FBI wanted to release these files as a source for people to read, and they included those files that are most commonly asked for from them by the public. I seriously doubt they have very many files on the Easter Bunny or Santa


Well taking for granted that you are right (I didn't go back to check) & that they seemed to intentionally make that one hoax stand out more than the rest (one can assume) for the purpose of getting the medias attention, then yes that does seem quite odd. One could make the argument, however, that they are intentionally giving the public exactly what it wants to hear....but in a way that can be easily debunked with further research, they are simply continuing an ongoing campaign of disinformation. They hook people in with 'true' stories that fall apart on closer examination. Its a perfect way to obscure the publics understanding of a subject, and smear any further research .

Page 52? Well if I'm understanding the spot you want me to look at, it looks like its about something that blew up in a field that may, or may not, have been related to meteor. They seem to suggest that it was not a meteor at all. Just what it was is a mystery I guess...however there are tons of possibilities. Some discarded dynamite or grenade? Perhaps it was a Fu-Go balloon that was unexploded since the end of WWII. Fu-Gos were actually balloons sent up by the Japanese during WWII, meant to get caught up in the Jet Stream and fly all the way to America to drop a payload of explosives. Its a fascinating story, that I suggest anyone look up. There was quite a bit of censorship about these devices since they were afraid the American population would panic if they believed the Japanese could infiltrate our airspace with bombs and there was no way we could stop them. The truth of the matter, however is that(at least as far as the documents from the time suggest) these balloon not very effective at all. Only a handful ever actually caused damage, and most just landed in completely random out of the way places causing no damage at all. I don't think its too much of a stretch to imagine one didn't go off, and set there undisturbed for quite a while until something (perhaps an animal crawling on it) set it off.....that is of course nothing more than wild unsubstantiated speculation on my part. It literally could have been any number of bombs, explosive devices, or even natural phenomenon.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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OP, I don't have time to read this entire thread at this moment, but am bookmarking it for later perusal. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the obvious effort you have put into creating this thread. Whether I end up agreeing with your final analysis is neither here-nor-there. Imo, just for all your hard work, you deserve a star and flag. Personally, I believe in aliens, but that doesn't mean I believe every story about them. It doesn't mean I buy into the "be very afraid, doom and gloom shape-shifting" agenda, either. I prefer to draw my conclusions on a case-by-case basis...
Again, good job!





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