Demonic Possession and Exorcism - Fact, Fiction or Superstition?

Hello ATS,


To start this thread i will tell you a little about myself in regard to religous beleif.

I was raised a Roman Catholic and i have been baptised, had my first communion and reconciliation and then finally at 13 my confirmation by at that time Bishop Pell who is now a cardinal at the Vatican.

I attended a Catholic Primary School and thus attended bible studies weekly amongst other subjects.


In my teens i drifted away from religion and started to lean towards science and noticed a huge difference in belief structure in science and religion.


Fast forward to now and i am still more focused on science than religion and havent stepped foot in a church in about 5 years the last time being a wedding. Although i still from time to time say a prayer and still have my rosemary beads from my confirmation....At the same time though i question the existence of God and of course the Devil as my belief in science and the scientific process outweighs my beleif in God or religion.

I can't help but question religion as it seems to have led to more violence than peace over the past 2000 yrs +




To the topic -





I have seen the majority of exorcism related movies of the years and although some were great and good for a fright, nothing really moved me or made me think more about God or the Devil... untill now.

I recently watched the new movie - The Rite

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/43ee15a0da91.jpg[/atsimg]


Michael Kovak, disillusioned with his father, a mortuary owner, decides to enter a seminary school and abdicate his vows upon completion, thereby getting him a free college degree. Four years pass and Michael is being ordained to the diaconate at the seminary. However, after ordination he writes a letter of resignation to his superior, Father Matthew, citing a lack of faith.

While Father Matthew is attempting to catch Michael, he trips, causing a biker to swerve into the path of an oncoming car. The young woman, believing Michael to be a priest after seeing his clerical garb, asks him for absolution. Unable to refuse, Michael comforts her and performs the ritual absolving her sins. Seeing how calmly he handled the situation, Father Superior tells Michael he is called to be a priest, whether Michael believes this or not; he later approaches Michael with an invitation to travel to Rome in order to attend a class on exorcism. Michael reluctantly accepts after being told by Father Matthew that he will be levied a $100,000 student loan if he leaves immediately, but that if he still desires to resign from his position after taking the class, then he may be free to leave.

During classes, he meets a young woman, Angelina, who is also taking the course. He soon learns that she is a reporter who has been asked to cover the course for an article in a newspaper. Realizing Michael is a skeptic and is very tentative in his faith, Father Xavier later asks Michael to see a friend of his, Father Lucas, who is a renowned exorcist. Michael agrees and meets Father Lucas at his home, where he sees one of the priest's patients: a pregnant sixteen-year-old girl. It is later revealed that she was raped by her father, which led to her possession. However, Michael remains skeptical, even after witnessing several preternatural events, such as the girl coughing up three long nails and fluently speaking English. She pointedly reminds Michael of the last patient he performed embalming on and of his loathing for his father.

Read More

The Rite - Trailer(HD)





Now first of all i know many will say well it's just a movie.... fair enough but at the beggining of the movie it states that it is based on a true story. Now i have seen that to many times recently to take it for face value but with abit of further investigation i found that there is actually quite abit of truth behind this story and that The Vatican and religous schools actually do have accredited courses in exorcism.



I'll share some of the information i have found so far:

The Making of a Modern Exorcist

An Encounter With Author of "The Rite"



By Father Alfonso Aguilar, LC




ROME, APRIL 6, 2011 (Zenit.org).- Does the devil exist? Father Gary Thomas of the Diocese of San Jose, California, once thought that belief in the devil's existence was part of an archaic and superstitious way of living the faith.

Father Thomas, who is pastor of Sacred Heart Church in Saratoga, was asked by his bishop to travel to Rome for training in the rite of exorcism at a Vatican-affiliated university. Through the lessons given by great exorcists and the training from a priest based in Rome, Father Thomas experienced firsthand that the presence of personal Evil is concrete and more ubiquitous than he could ever imagine. He eventually performs more than 80 exorcisms, and becomes the official exorcist of the San Jose Diocese.

These are the experiences recounted in the 2009 book "The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist" by Matt Baglio. Inspired by true events, "The Rite" follows the steps taken by a skeptical priest in order to become an exorcist. The story is interwoven with traditional theological notions about the demons, the touching experiences of possessed people, the quasi-magical power of the ancient rite, and the encounter, face to face, with the devil in person.

The book has inspired the feature film called "The Rite," which has been in theaters since January 28, starring Anthony Hopkins, no less. Directed by Mikael Håfström ("1408"), "The Rite" is a supernatural thriller that uncovers the devil’s reach to even one of the holiest places on earth.

On January 20 and 21 -- a week before the release of the movie in the U.S. theaters -- ZENIT spoke with Father Thomas about his call to the ministry of exorcism, his experiences over the past years in working with people seeking his help, and the prevalence of demonic influences in our society today.



Full Article - Zenit.org

Hollywood, US Bishops Spotlight "The Rite" (Part 1)

An Interview With San Jose Diocesan Exorcist


By Genevieve Pollock



SARATOGA, California, JAN. 20, 2011 (Zenit.org).- Jan. 28 is the release date for a new movie about exorcism and faith, which is based on the story of Father Gary Thomas, official exorcist of San Jose, California.

ZENIT spoke with Father Thomas about his call to the ministry of exorcism, his experiences over the past years in working with people seeking his help, and the prevalence of demonic influences in our society today.

The movie, "The Rite," starring Anthony Hopkins and distributed by Warner Brothers Pictures, focuses on themes of faith, as evidenced by the promotional tagline: "You can only defeat it when you believe."

It is based on the real experiences of Father Thomas, as recorded in the book, "The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist," by Matt Baglio. Both the author and the priest, who serves as pastor of Sacred Heart Parish in Saratoga, were invited onto the set to consult in the making of the movie.

Hollywood producers are not the only ones with a renewed interest in this topic; last November the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops sponsored a two-day conference on exorcism, which took place in Baltimore just prior to the fall assembly. Some 56 prelates and 66 priests signed up for the course.

In this interview, Father Thomas described his experiences on the set of the movie, and explained the relevance of this ministry today.


Full Article - Zenit.org

Below is an amazon link to the original book that inspired the movie -

The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68ec3bc75257.jpg[/atsimg]


Journalist Baglio follows a Catholic priest through the latter's training to become an exorcist in this incisive look at the church's rite of exorcism and its use in contemporary life. Baglio began delving into the topic after hearing about a course at a Vatican-affiliated university, where he met and befriended the Rev. Gary Thomas, a priest in the diocese of San Jose, Calif. Thomas took the exorcism course at the request of his bishop and subsequently apprenticed himself to a seasoned exorcist. Keenly aware of the misunderstanding that abounds about exorcism through film images, Baglio sets about dispelling misconceptions and does so skillfully, separating the real from the imaginary in the mysterious and unsettling sphere of the demonic. Both Thomas and Baglio were changed by their exposure to the rite. Thomas grew spiritually during the process, which bolstered his desire to help his parishioners, and Baglio, previously a nominal Catholic, reconnected with his faith. For anyone seeking a serious and very human examination of this fascinating subject, one that surpasses the sensational, this is absorbing and enlightening reading. (Mar. 10)

The point in writing all this and adding in some history about myself at the start of this post is that reading up on stories like this and seeing some factual information about the dogma of superstition has made me question beliefs or better yet my lack of belief to be more precise.


Here is some links to actual courses held for priests in regard to exorcism -

UPRA.org



V Course in Exorcism


Speakers who participated:
- Msgr Luigi Negri
- P. Paolo Scarafoni, LC
- P. Gabriel Gonzalez, LC
- P. Pedro Barrajón, LC
- Don Gabriele Amorth, SSP
- P. Giancarlo Gramolazzo, FDP
- P. Francesco Bamonte, ICMS
- P. François Dermine, OP
- Don Aldo Buonaiuto
- Don Gabriele Nanni
- Don Anthony Contri
- Professor Joseph Ferrari
- Prof. Charles Climati
- Mr. De Daniela Zordo
- Dr. Luigi Carnevale
- Dr. Carmine Esposito
- Prof. Anna Maria Giannini
- Prof. Adolfo Morganti

Program:

•Social aspects of satanism
•Phenomenological aspects: Satanism in the youth
•Aspects of biblical and theological
•Historical and theological aspects
•Liturgical aspects
•Pastoral and spiritual aspects
•Theological aspects
•Canonical aspects
•Legal
•Criminological aspects
•Psychological aspects
•The ministry of exorcism




**




Exorcism and Satanism - UPRA ( Ateneo Pontifico Regina Apostolorum )



Begin Monday, April 19, 2010 in Rome at the Pontifical Athenaeum Regina Apostolorum, the lessons of the fifth course "Exorcism and Prayer of Liberation". You can follow, via videoconference, also from Bologna at the Istituto Veritatis Splendor.

As with other issues, the course is organized by the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Ateneo Sacerdos and GRIS (Group of Socio-Religious Research and Information).

In addition to the priests, will also be open to interested lay people to topics. For example: doctors, psychologists, lawyers, teachers, catechists. Classes will be held 19 to 24 April 2010.

The course addresses two issues: the phenomenon of exorcism and Satanism and sects.

Among the objectives is certainly to snatch topics such difficult and delicate vision of a superficial and sensationalist.

It is not a course to become exorcists. The goal is to offer useful tools to the priests for their pastoral work, information and support for families.

In addition, the course offers an insight into the topic of Satanism and sects, which is very useful for priests and lay people interested in these issues.

Some episodes chronicle occurred in recent years, should be a wake-up call to take seriously a problem too underestimated the increase in interest in Satanism. Priests and laity, with a solid, can make an important contribution to address this problem, which threatens to involve young people in particular.

The fifth course will be: Bishop Luigi Negri (matters theological and philosophical), Adolfo Morganti (Anthropological), Father Pedro Barrajon LC (theological issues), Don Aldo Bonaiuto (social), Father Francesco Bamonte ICMS (social and spiritual) Don Gabriel Nanni (liturgical and canonical aspects), Carlo Climate (juvenile satanism), Archbishop Luigi Moretti (pastoral aspects), Anna Maria Giannini (psychological), Father Francois Dermine OP (pastoral and spiritual aspects), Tonino Cantelmi (aspects medical and psychological), Daniela De Zordo (legal issues - defense), James Ebner (legal aspects - claim), Father Thomas Torres CP (experience).

Although i have a very strong interest in science and at times it seems to contradict religion at times things like this make me re-evaluate my faith in religion.



Untill reading up on how seriously The Vatican and religion takes possession and reading about stories of priests, i had never really beleived in possession.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

i believe theres a higher or 'lower' set of other worldly beings at play be it, devil, god, the whole thing, i believe in there being something but not fire and brimstone as the bible shows


but this kind of thing spoils my thoughts on it making me feel its a farce




but i feel theres more out there or 'in us' and being possesed has a realism about it


ask the crazy person dumping bodies in NY

I believe I was possessed by a "demon". But its not what most people think of when they think of demon possession. That is, assuming I have actually been possessed and am not just delusional.

First of all, it is a fact that an 4 and a half to 5 feet tall being with a big head and large eyes with a noticeable evil presence came into my room one night moving at superhuman speed, doing something to me, and then leaped inside my body. This did happen and was too real. Although there are certain theories that pass this off as a "sleep paralysis hallucination". Whatever.

Second of all, I've not been feeling like myself lately. I was very good at meditation before this experience, and since, I cannot seem to get into a meditative state, no matter how long I sit there trying to do it for. Yesterday I spent three hours trying to get into that state, and was unable.

During my attempted meditations, there seems to be a strange light in the corner of my right closed eye vision that for some reason I interpret as a higher dimensional being. That might be a little delusional on my part, or maybe not. During my attempted meditations, the thought crosses my mind that what the alien/demon did to me that night was he/she/it placed a very advanced technological device somewhere in my body that relays my life experience to the being to empower his/her/its life experience.

I have been feeling somewhat detached from life since the experience. I used to be able to meditate with ease, I found myself receiving what i term as divine wisdom, and i had an uncanny capacity to love and know what love is. Now, instead of divine wisdom, I believe I am receiving cosmic information that doesn't feel enlightening as much as it does just informative. Also, I can't seem to recognize love or feel it anywhere near as well as I have in the past before the experience. I used to find myself spontaneously becoming overwhelmed with a positive loving energy that I have called "the holy spirit", but I haven't been feeling that much lately either.

I really don't know the extent of what happened that night, but can yall please pray for me to have undone what ever was done to me that night.

reply to post by Havick007


Here is the thing on Demonic Possession. Yes, there are Inferior Spirits commonly called Demons. That is in fact a misnomer, for the word "demon" means "inner self," or "Guardian Angel." These Inferior Spirits cannot just enter a human body, no, they must be invited in. So, the be "saved," one must open up their heart and soul to some or other deity, to a Christian that would most likely be "Jesus." Now being as a man named Jesus never existed, (English name) and coupled with the fact that there is precious little evidence that such a man ever existed at all, (No Roman or Egyptian, or Historian Records) the Devout will open themselves to this idea of a saviour, and thus invite any passing Inferior right in. This is how possession happens. Ever notice it is ONLY the Devout that even get possessed? Funny that no one else does. So, want to keep from being possessed by a Demon? Stop believing in them so hard! Banish them from your mind, you are the Creator, after all.

I've seen some so called demonic possessions... it can't happen if you don't believe in such things happening. In almost all cases its a young child thats possessed. IMO the child is simply acting out, taking advantage of their parents beliefs... when in fact i would bet that if someone just gave the child a good crack across the face they'd snap out of it right quick...

Demon Begone!!.... no? Alright then *slap slap*.... now how do you feel?

reply to post by smithjustinb

It sounds seriously. It has to be very unpleasant state of mind. I will say a prayer for you. First of all you have to get rid of all cursed, demonic, occult stuff.. It could be anything - statue, bracelet, picture.Maybe you will need to pray to find it. Even Hawaiian flowers are dedicated to their island false god. I was told that this stuff could give deamons right to enter our lives. Than pray,. Don't meditate in this case.
If you ask some christian he will propably tell you that meditation is the best way to open yourself to demonic possesion. It's logical. Of course it can't be primary bad thing. It depends. Every eastern-minded freak will tell you that you need some master to be safe and to earn some speed. However what you will mostly get is just another puppeter and his light, not God's. I used to meditate for about ten years and I also decided to have spiritual master - such famous smiley indian guru. It was common to meditate on his picture to obtain light etc, Long history... Everything was sweet and bright but after time I've realized it was nothing but possesion. I have to say thank Jesus I'm free again.
Most of these movies are misleading. All you can see there is just another occult crap, symbols, rituals, crosses, rosemary beads, latin BS.etc...In most cases is not even said word "Jesus". It has a reason. We was told only Jesus has most high authority right?
If is somebody looking for spiritual master, there's only one risk-free choice with good ending I can recommend.
To the author of this thread: I wish you to find a way to "Master" Jesus, not to religion. Religion sucks, because people suck. Not everytime, but often they suck.

Hey, Havick

Sounds like you're having a crisis of faith, or maybe a crisis of unfaith.

Exorcism is interesting, and even historically important - maybe being good exorcists is part of how Christianity grew so much in its first two centuries.

But, for me, it boils down to this. I look at the muscular evil that mere human beings manage without supernatural assistance. The smoking wreckage of the Twin Towers comes easily to mind. Then, here is somebody pwned by the very Prince of Evil. Wow, what will she come up with?

Let's say she barfs up three nails. Say what? It's gross and disgusting, maybe even sacriligeous if you're really sensitive to obscure references to the Crucifixion. But it's a carnival act. People do the same thing and get paid for it, eight shows a week.

If that is all supernatural evil amounts to, then why bother? Surely, being protected from tasteless vaudeville acts is no reason to reaffiliate yourself with a church you have almost left behind.

Not that it isn't your choice. But you did ask, and those are my thoughts.

reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ

First of all you have to get rid of all cursed, demonic, occult stuff.. It could be anything - statue, bracelet, picture.

And how do you know this to be true? I have a Pentagram ring that I have worn for many years, blessed by a Gavin Frost to keep me safe. I wear a Pentacle around my neck on a chain. On my walls are many occult symbols, and a Ouija board, and I have several set of Tarot cards, and a great many occult books, including some written by Crowley. I have never seen a Demon or any kind of inferior spirit here, period. The bibles we have are packed away in boxes, no need to have them laying about, some kid may pick one up.

It seems that the religious crowd are the only ones that believe in, or are bothered by demons. Why is that? Let me ask you, ever walk the Ether? Up there are all of the little demons you human have created with your paranoid belief systems and church dogma. Why do you all still believe in creatures invented by the church in the first place? Christians often tell me they are scared to death of Satan. Well, let me ask, what do you think would happen to Satan if everyone just stopped believing in him altogether? Be Free, and be Sovereign in mind and spirit, and stop believing in Mediaeval scare tactics.

reply to post by autowrench


Oh, you really sound like possesed one
Let me start with answer to the question at the end.
To him? Nothing. That is exactly what he needs - to convince people he doesn't exist.
You imagine them like in movies. That's the problem. Aren't they spirits? Not anybody can see their spiritual form, (I don't as I know), but you can feel it's presence in your life or in your head, maybe in unreasonable anger, merciless character, sympathy for devil, sin etc. It could be even well. The fight starts when you change the team. I don't understand their nature but I believe what God said about them and about cursed stuff in the Bible. No need to be part of some religion group to believe something. You have a free will. I don't have a need to convince you if you don't.
However if you don't believe anything of this spiritual "crap" then who am I talking to? Some body asks me? (no offence)
peace

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Havick007

 

for the word "demon" means "inner self," or "Guardian Angel."

demon
Word History

Date of Origin 14th c.
English acquired this word from Latin in two forms, classical Latin daemōn and medieval Latin dēmōn, which were once used fairly interchangeably for ‘evil spirit’ but have now split apart. Demon retains the sense ‘evil spirit’, but this was in fact a relatively late semantic development. Greek daímōn (source of Latin daemōn) meant ‘divine power, fate, god’ (it is probably related to Greek daíomai ‘distribute, allot’, which comes from an Indo-European base whose descendants include English tide and time). It was used in Greek myths as a term for a minor deity, and it was also applied to a ‘guiding spirit’ (senses now usually denoted by daemon in English). It seems to be from this latter usage that the sense ‘evil spirit’ (found in the Greek Septuagint and New Testament and in the Latin Vulgate) arose.

Originally posted by autowrench


Well, let me ask, what do you think would happen to Satan if everyone just stopped believing in him altogether? Be Free, and be Sovereign in mind and spirit, and stop believing in Mediaeval scare tactics.

"The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he doesn't exist." : French poet Charles Pierre Baudelaire

Originally posted by PapagiorgioCZ
reply to post by autowrench

 

Oh, you really sound like possesed one

Let me start with answer to the question at the end.
To him? Nothing. That is exactly what he needs - to convince people he doesn't exist.
You imagine them like in movies. That's the problem. Aren't they spirits? Not anybody can see their spiritual form, (I don't as I know), but you can feel it's presence in your life or in your head, maybe in unreasonable anger, merciless character, sympathy for devil, sin etc. It could be even well. The fight starts when you change the team. I don't understand their nature but I believe what God said about them and about cursed stuff in the Bible. No need to be part of some religion group to believe something. You have a free will. I don't have a need to convince you if you don't.
However if you don't believe anything of this spiritual "crap" then who am I talking to? Some body asks me? (no offence)
peace

No offence taken friend, I just have read through Bibles and other religious writings, plus a great many books on religion and know better than to believe in demons, or any other creature invented by the Holy Roman Church to scare to death the parishioners so they would come off their money and give it to the priests. Plus, the biggest reason is, I have been seeing and speaking with the dead for all of my life, plus I can astral travel and have seen what Christians have created on the Ether, or at least the remnants of what was once a material being of sorts. I have seen perhaps a hundred Santa's, and many Jesus, and what people think are Angels are our higher Selves, exact twins with wings. And I have had the ET experience too. And I am not "possessed" by anything. I am a 57 year old retired auto mechanic who now works on, and builds custom computers. Only Catholics and Christians get possessed, friend. Never saw anyone else that way.

As you've mentioned astral traveling, according to this topic I have to say it's considered to be perfect way to invite some new passenger into your body. I don't know what kind of reality it is or what kind of reality '___' trip is and I don't want it. I'm sure you believe that experience, but how can you be so sure that it weren't just someone very old and very smart playing tricks with your dreamy mind? Anyway, if I had an option to believe you or to believe Jesus alone plus few bilion people through history of faith across main religions, do I need to say what would I choose?

I don't agree. And I have been doing it since I can remember, since I was a child. I have often woken up in places different that I went to sleep, like out in the yard, in other rooms, and once in the bathtub. The thing I saw do not bother me for some reason, they seen rather afraid of me.

Just out of curiosity... how do you think stigmata is or is not related to possession? I always found those cases far more interesting and harder to disprove by medical science. Lets see if I can find a link...