Everything you do is for yourself

I said nothing about giving up. I said the way to find true happiness is to find Atonement. This is At-One-Ment. The point is to find the mean. Golden Mean But it goes further than this. I agree with what you say and I'll add that true happiness is found by serving others.

Look at it this way: The person that is power hungry is this way for a reason. They lack power. The person that is meek and humble is this way for a reason. They contain all the power already. They lack nothing. We tend to flip this backwards and look at the ultra-ambitious person as a success and the meek person as lacking in some way. Nothing is further from the truth. It's the opposite. As you also allude. This is a great thread.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

You give up on living? Not even remotely so. You find your own true reasons for everything you do in your life, every choice, every thought, every action, every single thing that rises and falls makes sense once you go through those stages. The process only ends when you reach your state of bliss. The world still goes on around you, but you don't suffer from it. You accept what comes and brave the storm with a smile. That's not giving up. That's experiencing every moment to the fullest because you see it only for what it is, without prejudice.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
If you read the Dhammapada, you see that Buddha is saying the same thing. The four noble truths are a way to lead out of suffering completely. The only problem with this is you give up living. My version is just a common sense reflection on the way free will works. All choices come down to belief. There really is no free will since all your choices merely engage a law. God has already worked out a reaction for every action. This essentially means that your only act of free will is belief or disbelief. The story you live in is fixed. Paradoxically, you have an effect on others and are affected by others. This won't stop the earth moving or the tides from coming in.

It's like moving through a forest. Your options are moving around the trees as you make a path of discovery. The forest stays the same and there are unlimited paths you could take. The point is to find the stream leading you back to the source of it all.

I'm not arguing with what you said in reply, just that you did say it. What you meant or whether you meant it some other way is another thing.

I see what you are reading. I was saying that Buddha had it in mind that a person needs to give up living to escape suffering. The whole detachment ideas is not necessary to end the suffering. Suffering turns into joy when it is approached from the correct perspective. Buddha was about running from it. Suffering is going to happen, whether you run from it or not. That's all I am saying. The end of suffering is to see it as ending in reward when you suffer for the correct reasons.

So, when I said, "The only problem with this is you give up living," I was referring to Buddhism and running from suffering. Ultimately, our happiest state will be when we are attached in reliance to God. In this sense, Buddha almost had it right. When we walk with God, he directs our paths. In the case of Buddhism, the Buddhist walks on his own. Unless they are Christian Buddhists, in which case they would be relying on God and not the material world.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
If you read the Dhammapada, you see that Buddha is saying the same thing. The four noble truths are a way to lead out of suffering completely. The only problem with this is you give up living. My version is just a common sense reflection on the way free will works. All choices come down to belief. There really is no free will since all your choices merely engage a law. God has already worked out a reaction for every action. This essentially means that your only act of free will is belief or disbelief. The story you live in is fixed. Paradoxically, you have an effect on others and are affected by others. This won't stop the earth moving or the tides from coming in.

It's like moving through a forest. Your options are moving around the trees as you make a path of discovery. The forest stays the same and there are unlimited paths you could take. The point is to find the stream leading you back to the source of it all.

I'm not arguing with what you said in reply, just that you did say it. What you meant or whether you meant it some other way is another thing.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Firstly, I will categorically state that I am not Buddhist nor have I studied Buddhism in its various forms at any great length. It, like many other philosophies and belief systems, has been a point of interest for me from time to time. I read some, I discuss some, but I adhere to none. I have discovered my own way, as you seem to have done, and it serves me well. The detachment was for me the most beneficial part of my exploration of Buddhism, simply because it is contrary to what all other religions teach -- specifically, attachment. They all want us to adhere to tradition, to God's word, all earthly everything. Finding that attachment causes more problems than it can ever solve was a turning point in my life. So in that sense, I agree with the Buddhist tenet of detachment.

Your assertion that it can be done without the detachment but by simply changing your perspective is also true, providing you can detach from those previously held ideas easily enough. When that is done, pretty much everything is in the palm of your hand. That is really all that need be done to attain that peace of mind that will lead you to self-knowledge. I feel though that the vast majority of people have been trained/educated/programmed/taught/convinced/subjugated/indoctrinated/dominated/intimidated or some such into believing that what others said/say/will say is more correct than your own perspective on things, and that a humble person will always question themselves first. That may well be true, but that's not to say that you are wrong and it's difficult to unlearn these practices. By actively detaching, you are no longer bound they the opinions or feelings of others, so you may for the first time be able to see with your own eyes.

However, Buddhism does not teach running from suffering. It teaches embracing it, accepting it, loving it, experiencing it fully and without prejudice, and thusly one is freed from its grasp. That is fundamental (to) Buddhism.

"However, Buddhism does not teach running from suffering. It teaches embracing it, accepting it, loving it, experiencing it fully and without prejudice, and thusly one is freed from its grasp. That is fundamental (to) Buddhism."

I identify with this as well. The eightfold path is very closely related to the biblical way of righteousness, as well as the Hermetic philosophy of rebirth found in Book 12 and 13. There are common factors to the enlightenment that we find in the life of Buddha, Rumi the Sufi, Mohamed, Confucius and Christ. These enlightened souls never wrote their words down. This is a common connection they all had. If you look close under the hood of each of these philosophies, you will see mention of heaven, the son of heaven and an idea that there is a central God behind it all. As you move through history and see that God revealed Himself slowly to these cultures, ending with the revelations of knowledge to the brothers Issac (Israel) and Ishmael (Islam), you see that He has been there all along. The Torah is the document that brings it all together and moves it through the words of Christ.

When you follow the trail to Christ, it leads to one overwhelming conclusion. The Enlightenment that the sages of the past found was lacking apart from the final piece given by Christ. Becoming Christlike means surrendering all you have back to God. Enlightenment is the act of allowing the light to reflect from you back to God. Detachment is only the first step. The next step is the bestowal back to God; reciprocating the bestowal he has given to us. We do this through loving-kindness to others and realizing that we have nothing apart form our connection to the one it came from. This connection is ultimately reflected back by enlightening others to the same from our actions. This is being Christlike. Altruism. Faith, Hope and Love form 1 Corinthians 13.

When Christ says that, "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." in John 14:6, He as telling us that the way to this final enlightenment can only come by putting Him in His rightful place in the temple of our hearts. Until we take this additional step, the ultimate bestowal of light is not realized.

Fiat Lux is the light of God. The Word (Logos-John 1)) is the wave that carries the light. In physics, this is the duality of particle and wave. Light is both particle and wave. There is no movement of the light apart form the Word that carries it. Christ is the Word.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Firstly, I will categorically state that I am not Buddhist nor have I studied Buddhism in its various forms at any great length. It, like many other philosophies and belief systems, has been a point of interest for me from time to time. I read some, I discuss some, but I adhere to none. I have discovered my own way, as you seem to have done, and it serves me well. The detachment was for me the most beneficial part of my exploration of Buddhism, simply because it is contrary to what all other religions teach -- specifically, attachment. They all want us to adhere to tradition, to God's word, all earthly everything. Finding that attachment causes more problems than it can ever solve was a turning point in my life. So in that sense, I agree with the Buddhist tenet of detachment.

Your assertion that it can be done without the detachment but by simply changing your perspective is also true, providing you can detach from those previously held ideas easily enough. When that is done, pretty much everything is in the palm of your hand. That is really all that need be done to attain that peace of mind that will lead you to self-knowledge. I feel though that the vast majority of people have been trained/educated/programmed/taught/convinced/subjugated/indoctrinated/dominated/intimidated or some such into believing that what others said/say/will say is more correct than your own perspective on things, and that a humble person will always question themselves first. That may well be true, but that's not to say that you are wrong and it's difficult to unlearn these practices. By actively detaching, you are no longer bound they the opinions or feelings of others, so you may for the first time be able to see with your own eyes.

However, Buddhism does not teach running from suffering. It teaches embracing it, accepting it, loving it, experiencing it fully and without prejudice, and thusly one is freed from its grasp. That is fundamental (to) Buddhism.

edit on 17/4/2011 by CosmicEgg because: addendum

reply to post by chancemusky


Agreed. Even Mother Theresa didn't help people for the sake of helping them. Perhaps the most selfish person in the world (which is a very good thing in this instance), she didn't like the idea of people being in such a wretched state. It bothered her, so she sought to alleviate her own discomfort.

You are misrepresenting Mother Teresa completely. Is this intentional or are you just speaking without referring to Google in any way? Here's one quote I found. LINK

"For nine years, Mother Teresa continued as the principal of St. Mary's. Then on September 10, 1946, a day now annually celebrated as "Inspiration Day," Mother Teresa received what she described as a "call within a call." She had been traveling on a train to Darjeeling when she received an "inspiration," a message that told her to leave the convent and help the poor by living among them."

This was after being a nun since 17 years old. Later in her ministry, some complained that she was only trying to win souls.

"With international recognition also came critique. Some people complained that the houses for the sick and dying were not sanitary, that those treating the sick were not properly trained in medicine, that Mother Teresa was more interested in helping the dying go to God than in potentially helping cure them. Others claimed that she helped people just so she could convert them to Christianity."

Are you sure you are talking about the same person here?

When Mother Teresa passed away, she left behind over 4,000 Missionary of Charity Sisters, in 610 centers in 123 countries.

"After Mother Teresa's death, the Vatican began the lengthy process of canonization. On October 19, 2003, the third of the four steps to sainthood was completed when the Pope approved Mother Teresa's beatification, awarding Mother Teresa the title "Blessed.""

There is no doubt that her theology did not always match the catholic church. The only thing we can say is that she had her own perspective. Most of the controversy was myth. She loved Christ and did what she did for the cross as a witness.

Her book, Live in the Spirit:

“We never try to convert those who receive [aid from Missionaries of Charity] to Christianity but in our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, or agnostics become for this better men — simply better — we will be satisfied. It matters to the individual what church he belongs to. If that individual thinks and believes that this is the only way to God for her or him, this is the way God comes into their life — his life. If he does not know any other way and if he has no doubt so that he does not need to search then this is his way to salvation.” (Pages 81-82)

"The six steps to peace taught by Mother Teresa are silence, prayer, faith, love, service, and peace. For anyone who was unsure of what they believed, she suggested starting with small acts of love towards others." LINK

Perhaps the most unselfish person to walk the earth apart from Christ. She never did a thing for herself that wasn't a form of suffering.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by chancemusky

 

Agreed. Even Mother Theresa didn't help people for the sake of helping them. Perhaps the most selfish person in the world (which is a very good thing in this instance), she didn't like the idea of people being in such a wretched state. It bothered her, so she sought to alleviate her own discomfort.

reply to post by hardware


I have a very fundamental grasp of economics, and am not even able to enroll in classes of that level yet, as Im in highschool.