ALARMING: 63 percent of people killed in Iraq war were civilians

That's funny, I don't recall saying anything regarding weapons of mass destruction. Way to try and change the subject from the original topic of innocent civilians being killed. Was that change in subject matter to hide your obvious ignorance in the matter? Was it to hide your lack of experience?

Maybe you should look up the word "cowardice" because I think you may have the meaning confused with something else. In my opinion cowardice is sitting behind your computer screen tapping on some keys criticizing troops for collateral damage. Enlist, go on over and see if you change your tune when you get back.

Of course that will never happen because it is way easier to sit behind your keyboard drinking coffee telling all the troops what bad people they are.

All you criticizers disgust me because you are the same people that never had the stones to enlist yourself.

Originally posted by Danbones
perhaps if the cowardly soldiers
would quit hosing the whole street from helicopters...

250,000 rounds per casualty...

where did the US put its bases...
thats right many are right in or near major population centers..
cowardly

That is an in accurate or misleading report. Most Iraq casualties were from Iraq death squads. Sunni and and other various sect's of Islam waring against each other. While it seems everybody want's to believe US troops are a bunch of murders. The fact of the matter is they're not. The true fact of the matter is 95 % of those deaths are Iraq's killing Iraq''s and the insurgents killing Iraq's. Research it if you refuse to believe me. Google Iraqi death squads.

Wait...what?

You claim your source for how many countries our troops are in is...NFL?

OMG...I am laughing so hard I can barely type...

REALLY? LMAO

So you are criticizing colleagues for watching reality shows and claim your source for your number as the NFL...

I hope you realize that post made you look like the biggest hypocrite ever.

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

 

I live in the center of America.
No one, I mean NO ONE, hates America for our "freedom"
We've given up most of our freedoms and it sickens me.
My colleagues would rather watch a fake "reality show" than stand up for freedom.
Were facing decadence like no other country has.
They hate us because we have troops in 175 countries at least(according to the NFL, they said they broadcasted to troops in that many countries.)
We tell other countries what to do, and when to do it.
You're only free to do what is UNIMPORTANT.

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


There's a difference between watching a major sporting event, the superbowl, and watching stupid tv shows everyday.
Sporting events have been around for millennia(the olympics, chariot racing, the coliseum gladiatorial fight)
There's nothing wrong with theater in itself, the problem lies in the fact that millions of Americans lives revolve around these tv programs.

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


I'll take discust from you as accomplimant


insulting someone you haven't a clue about on a forum is the heigth of bravery isn't it
like hosing civies from a chopper
250,000 rounds per
thats not including allied casualties from the friendly fire either...
...or raids like the ones the brits SAS had to do to get their guys back, who were BUSTED dressed like muslims and planting IUDs
oh yeah
the COWARDS you MENTIONED

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


Ok first most of the civilian deaths they counted are do to sectarian violence. A couple of examples Aug 31st 2005 there was a Shiite procession heading to there shrine. Earlier there was a rocket attack on the shrine this made the Shiites very nervous. Then as the procession hits a bridge crossing the tigress a rumer starts of someone on the bridge wearing a suicide vest. This starts a stampede people start jumping into the water and people get trampled 900 people died because they feared they would be attacked. Aug 21st 2007 500 people killed near Syrian border by truck bombs the explosions leveled more than 1,000 houses, most of them made of mud and stone, while another 500 were damaged.

This is why Iraq is nervous about the US leaving Iraq when i was stationed there civilians knew we tried are best to protect them.An example of that is i was on patrol we got word that a man was firing an ak47 into a school yard. Sadly 9 children and 1 teacher was killed however we were able to catch him and he was killed. How did we find out about it Iraqis called us for help do you call people for help that you think are trying to kill you??????

Now this is not to say deaths at the hand of the military did not occur. There is misunderstandings that occur at checkpoint mis identifications that occur.In a combat zone military no mater what country will always default to self preservation human nature im afraid. So if a car comes up to a check point for example and doesn't stop the military personnel at the check point sees a car continuing through there barricades but in reality the driver may not have seen them do to glare on there windshield for example. Now this is tragic but it isnt a group of soldiers just deciding they want to kill someone. It was a mistake made in a combat zone. Because the soldiers at the check point is trying to protect there fellow soldiers who may be sleeping in their barracks and if it was a bomber would kill 500 soldiers. This is a tough call to determine if someone is hostile just by looking at there car driving through barricades.

You can argue they shouldn't be there thats fine but guess what and most of the soldiers there just tried to get through the day without being killed and tried to help the Iraqi's as much as possible. I know my tour i made a difference i was a combat medic i did health screening as well as street patrols protecting the people your accusing us of killing.Before you try to paint with a broad brush you should go to Iraq and talk to those civilians about the military i think you would be surprised at the responses you get. You will find most Iraqis want us there contrary to what you hear from the press which has a different agenda.

Sorry for being so long winded tonight but i just get sick and tired of people thinking they know whats going on in a country they have never been to and there only goal is to make out the military to be a bunch of killers who get there kicks out of killing people 99% of the troops just want to help them.

Originally posted by JerryB08
That is an in accurate or misleading report. Most Iraq casualties were from Iraq death squads. Sunni and and other various sect's of Islam waring against each other. While it seems everybody want's to believe US troops are a bunch of murders. The fact of the matter is they're not. The true fact of the matter is 95 % of those deaths are Iraq's killing Iraq''s and the insurgents killing Iraq's. Research it if you refuse to believe me. Google Iraqi death squads.

You're right that the majority of civilians killed weren't killed by US troops, but I highly doubt it was 95%.
the important statistic is we killed more civilians than the number of civilians that died on 9/11.

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
There are 2 sides to every story.

Perhaps if the coward insurgents distinguished themselves from innocent civilians then that number would be much lower.

My feeling on the matter is:
If you ain't been there, you have no idea what you are talking about.

It is so easy to criticize reading stats on the internet in your nice comfy chair. Get up grab a coke and sit back down to read some more on the internet. If you had spent any time there at all under fire, perhaps the armchair Generals would feel different.

I live in Miami Beach and on behalf of the Tourist Council here I would invite you to visit Miami and not Iraq as we have better beaches, shopping, entertainment and dining, in a much more modern and well maintained well policed environemnt!

So now having said that, why would I want to go to Iraq and what Americans went to Iraq who weren't part of an organized effort to kill and or police people in Iraq even though they are Americans and not Iraqis.

So you got a nice uniform in the process to go along with your uniform thinking indoctrinated into you through uniform brainwashing.

So if someone who actually lives in Iraq and noticed hey you aren't from around here, carrying a gun, and causing some trouble, do they have to have uniform too to decide they would like you to go home Dead or Alive?

So because you were naive enough to believe your government that weapons of mass destruction were there that weren't, that you were ridding these people of a tyrant that they didn't want, and that you were keeping the world safe in the process, they were all supposed to believe it too?

And now you are surprised that they didn't?

Go figure.

Best advice if you can't visit someplace as a tourist ready to spend a few buck, stay home.

Do us all a favor.

I really have no desire to see the war zone you helped to create.

Taken by me in 2006 during my first deployment.

Looks like they are all cheering...not dying.

www.youtube.com...

Linked because it won't embed.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I have visited Miami many times, nice town.

Why do all of you keep referring back to WMDs? This thread is not about WMDs.

As far as brainwashing...far from it. Common misconception about the military, and just 1 of 1000 reasons a coward will find to not enlist in the military.

Page 2...about time for the military bashers and America haters to start jumping in.

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
Taken by me in 2006 during my first deployment.

Looks like they are all cheering...not dying.

www.youtube.com...

Linked because it won't embed.

Happened to me also.

Just add this: &related

after the vid number and it will work.

sample: xPGgIgurWN8&related

Originally posted by Acid_Burn2009
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I have visited Miami many times, nice town.

Why do all of you keep referring back to WMDs? This thread is not about WMDs.

As far as brainwashing...far from it. Common misconception about the military, and just 1 of 1000 reasons a coward will find to not enlist in the military.

Page 2...about time for the military bashers and America haters to start jumping in.

Wow the old macho card!

If you don't support the invasion of another nation who hasn't done a thing to our nation you are an American Basher?

If you don't understand why anyone who imagines it's brave to invade another nation, smash and destroy their infrastructure, and impose a new government on them, that did nothing to our nation, you are a military basher?

The truth is our fore fathers did not want us establishing an empire or taking sides in foreign conflicts so the American thing to do is argue against an American government doing that.

Further our Forefathers didn't want a large standing military but militias aimed at defending their individual states that could be called into Federal Service in time of war, in large part to prevent a corrupt system taking over the government and propping it up with a standing army.

So military bashing is actually an American thing to do too.

Yeah I would say some brainwashing has been involved here.

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009


When a nation invades our country, I'd be one of the first to take up arms against them. So far no nation has invaded. It seems that we've been doing all of the invading. Your priorities are way out of whack if you think opposing invading sovereign countries is the same as being a coward. Plus, I'd rather be a coward than a close-minded asshat like you. We aren't spreading freedom. We're spreading chaos, and taking peoples resources while were at it.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


I just get blown away from some of these comments.....Some of you people that have been twisted by the media and some teachers to belive you live in the worst country in the world. That everything America does is wrong and the rest of the world is better than us. Try saying what your saying over in China, North Korea, Any Arab State and a bucket full of other country's.
As far as IRAQ goes and it's WMD's......didn't Sadam Nereve gas a whole town in his country? Men, Women and Children. Attempted Genocide? I know when you here WMD's all some of you think about Nuclear weapons but that isn't the only WMD. The gas he used falls under that catagory. And let's not forget biological WMD's. I think we knew about the nerve gas. I also think it was proven that he attained some of these gas weapons from us. From either the Bush Sr. or Reagan adminstration during their war against Iran in the 80's.
So we know they had that. And we know he was trying to refine uranium. We also found mobile labs for biological weapons. Look it up. He was also allowing Terroist training camps to run in his country. And also paying the families of Suicide Bombers $40.000 for their sacrifice.
The when the UN inspectors attemped to do surprise searches for WMD's they were denied admittance numerous times to structures of intrest. Sometimes even told to wait for hours while they moved whatever inside to different locations. He was playing games with the UN over and over again and he made his people pay the price.
Now ...other coutries are sending in terroist to fight against us while we are there. Terrorist that hide in Mosque's and civilian houses and use them as shields! And when civilians get killed because of their tatics it's our fault? Then you Damn every Soldier we sent over there, implying they want to gun down innocent people? No such thing as a clean WAR folks. That's just reallity. Our soldiers are doing their damn best to protect the innocent!
If we leave...we're leaving the innocent to fend for themselves. Damned if we do, Damned if we don't. I wish we could leave...trully.If we are waiting for them to come around to the rest of the worlds way of thinking don't hold your breath....I belive their Religion will never allow them too. That's their right and their choice to make.
Sure Bush Sr. screwed up by not finishing the job. Signing a cease fire with a MADMAN that was beyond stupid. He "and anyone who had a hand in supplying Nerve gas to Iraq" should us his remaining years by going over there and help that country rebuild. A form of penance.
We are there because of all the reasons I stated above! 911 Wasn't the whole reason... it was just part of the puzzle.
Don't hate your country because of the MORONS in Washington. America isn't evil....just most of the people running it are.
The system isn't broken...it's corrupted by self satsifying fools. The Constition "when followed correctly"and Free Market made us the most prosperous and powerful Country in the world in 200 years time. Our leaders in Washington now are lacking "HONOR' and have no MORAL FIBER! Common sense of right and wrong has been reduced to a grey matter area depending on how much money you have. I don't hate rich people...Just the megolomanic manipulating ones! The ones that are on Powertrips!
We just need to give Washington a Super Enema to clean out the "you know what" thats' infesting it now. Both Parties. And when you Vote.......do your homework! Don't treat it like high school popularity contest! Stand on your own two feet and don't rely on the goverment. Use the brain God gave you! It's good brain.
There's no other form of Goverment in the world that I would want to live in! Just remember....your free to leave anytime you want if you hate it that much. We won't hold a grudge.
And since I'm ranting...how about a spell checker here I could use one.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/41e1daf6ed81.jpg[/atsimg]

And the real people who are running the show, the real puppet masters manipulated most of you into going along with this war.

I said this from the beginning, 911 was a false flag operation.

My bet is on the Bush Family, Henry Kissinger and the rest of the Bilderberg group members being connected with 911 and the War in Iraq.

No, it's not fun saying, I told you so because people, humanity just never learns - most keep repeating the same mistakes over and over, allowing themselves to be manipulated by fear and hate.

The next war humanity is manipulated into may very well be the last one for another dozen millenniums.

reply to post by DreamVapor


The media and my teachers have been telling me America is the greatest and freeist country ever since I was 3 yo. I can see past the propaganda.
I don't think, nor ever said, America is the worst.
It's not just the leaders who have no morals. 70% of Americans have no morals as well. Don't believe me, just look at our culture and media. All it is is violence, sex, and other acts of depravity. Take jersey shore as an example. I can think of 100s of more examples.
People think holding the door open for someone is a great act of kindness. Ha! That's nothing.

First off no one is dumb enough to even try a US invasion; it is a logistical nightmare and the resources needed is immeasurable.

Second, cowards are the morons in Iraq and Afghanistan that hide behind the innocent people. Cowards are the morons that kill their own people and use it as propaganda against the US.

I can assure you my priorities are straight and I am pretty far from close minded. Keep reading the BS threads over here on ATS; Keep polluting your mind with all the doom and gloom bozos. Keep taking some posters words as truth over people that have been there and experienced Iraq from a military stand point. Don't judge everyone by the actions of a few rotten troops.

Who is the close minded one? Apparently it is you, because you believe what the military haters and America bashers spew on here; it fits your new age, hippy, peace and love agenda. Some of us live in the real world and realize the world is not all rainbows and bunnies.

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

 

When a nation invades our country, I'd be one of the first to take up arms against them. So far no nation has invaded. It seems that we've been doing all of the invading. Your priorities are way out of whack if you think opposing invading sovereign countries is the same as being a coward. Plus, I'd rather be a coward than a close-minded asshat like you. We aren't spreading freedom. We're spreading chaos, and taking peoples resources while were at it.

AcidBurn, Jude, you guys keep your heads up.

Those you speak of haven't been there, haven't really made a difference in peoples lives like you have, and love to criticize from a distance.

Some yo-yo throws out a statistic, and they jump on it like it came from God.

I recall reading a fairly detailed account of a battle I was a participant of in a newspaper, and laughed out loud. I have NO idea where they got their "detailed" information, but as I shared it with the others who were participants, we came to the conclusion that folks who weren't there are not only uninformed, but misinformed.

It's not what people don't know that causes so much trouble - it's the crap they KNOW that isn't true.

But we already know that, don't we?

reply to post by FarArcher


Yes, my friend, we do.

It may not make squat of a difference to anyone here but it means something to me.

I may not have made a difference in anyone's life here but there are many, many Iraq men, women and children that will disagree. Towns lined up and cheering as we rolled through. I have had dinner with many Iraqi families. If I had a nickel for every hug, kiss on the cheek and thanks I received from Iraq citizens, I would be a rich man now. We did make a difference itheir lives...it's just to bad it won't stay that way.

All you mind polluted haters keep believing BS posts like the OP, it matters not to me. You will all die lonely and scared of everything.

reply to post by Acid_Burn2009

All you mind polluted haters keep believing BS posts like the OP, it matters not to me. You will all die lonely and scared of everything.

This is almost like reverse fear-mongering, no? lol


It's hard to argue with anecdotal evidence, but how else were Iraqi's supposed to act? If they didn't act nice then they saw the concequences of shock and awe.


I know it's hard to believe someone could have started a war of false premises because of the stakes involved. It's like telling a Christian there is no god. The point is we need to stop this kind of thing from happening in the future.

Keep in mind, there are a lot of despots just like Saddam who the U.S. activity supports.