science on how HAARP *COULD* create an EQ

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm by far no expert in this field but i do have a good background in engineering, physics, and of course common sense. At no time do I imply that HAARP IS causing world wide destruction via the forces of mother nature herself.

I urge you to read from the following pages and make your own connections and theories regarding this matter.... I for one believe whole heartedly that ANYTHING can be accomplished as long as the right mechanisms, systems, and support is in place and stimulated. Equations need balance, that balance is energy.... what goes in must come out in one form or another.

Small quotes + source = do your own thinking and read

1. BBC

Nasa scientists have said they could be on the verge of a breakthrough in their efforts to forecast earthquakes.

....the surface becomes positively charged. And this charge can be strong enough to affect the ionosphere, causing the disturbances documented by satellites.

2. ScienceDaily

ScienceDaily (Nov. 3, 2003) — A violent earthquake that cracked highways in Alaska set the sky shaking as well as the land, an ESA-backed study has confirmed.

"These investigations will support the French space agency CNES's DEMETER (Detection of Electro-Magnetic Emissions Transmitted from Earthquake Regions) microsatellite, to be launched in 2004 and devoted to the detection in the ionosphere of seismic, volcanic and man-made signals. These ESA activities will be performed in the framework of the Space Weather Applications Pilot Project."

3. Research Journal Of Earth Sciences



4. Stanford

"Earthquake forecasters can also watch for changes in the ionosphere by monitoring very-low-frequency (3- to 30-kilohertz) and high-frequency (3- to 30-megahertz) radio transmissions

This research is still young and apparently controverial. If there are effects, they may be too subtle for the SID instruments to pick up. If your students do pursue something of this nature, make sure you make it VERY clear to them that this is extremely early and tentative research that may or may not provide them any useful results.

5. Institute of Terrestrial Magnetism, Ionosphere and Radiowave Propagation,
Russian Academy of Sciences, (IZMIRAN), Troitsk, Moscow Region, 142092, Russia

One of the main sources of atmosphere-ionosphere modification over the regions of preparing earthquakes is the emanation from the earth of different chemical substances. We can mention among them radon, light gases (hydrogen and helium), and sub-micron aerosols with high metal content (Alekseev and Alekseeva, 1992; Alekseev at al., 1995). It leads to changes of electrodynamic properties of the atmosphere over the region of an anticipated earthquake and as a result to the observed phase variations of VLF signals passing over these regions. Aerosols in the atmosphere lead to the formation of large-scale electric fields up to several kV/m (Kikuchi, 1991).

ChemTrail guys chime in anytime.... I'm certain if haarp is creating Eqs - Chemtrails are playing their part....i will even go as far as saying that if haarp could create an eq then maybe chemtrails oppose the earths field and mitigate eqs.... would explain why the BIG ONE for the west coast has failed to come to fruition but i digress....

Topside sounding from onboard an orbiting satellite is a kind of remote sensing of near earth plasma (ionosphere). The sounder is an HF radar working within the frequency band of 0.1(or 0.3) MHz up to 16(or 20) MHz with the changing of sounding frequency from lower to higher edges of the band (frequency sweep).

6. TAO, Vol. 15, No. 3, 413-435, September 2004

This paper accumulates the recent advances in scientific understanding of the problem of seismo-ionospheric coupling. Present research focuses on three main areas: the physical mechanism, main phenomenological features of ionospheric variations associated with earthquakes, and their statistical properties permitting use of them in practical applications.

The second point relates to seismo-electromagnetic emissions in ULF, ELF and VLF bands registered in seismically active zones before earthquakes (Nagao et al. 2002). Their detection and identification (separate from thunderstorm induced emissions and technogenic emissions) is now well developed. At least two techniques are used: direction finding (Ismaguilov et al. 2001), and polarization techniques (Hattori et al. 2002); however, the physical nature of the observed emissions still remains unclear

7. Polytechnical Faculty of MSTU, Physics Chair, Murmansk West Department of IZMIRAN, Kaliningrad

For strong mid-latitudinal earthquakes the seismo-ionospheric anomalies look like local TEC enhancements or decreases located in the vicinity of the forthcoming earthquake epicenter. Such structures are generated in the ionosphere for several days prior to the main shock. The amplitude of plasma modification reaches the value of 30-90 % relative to the non-disturbed level. The zone of the anomaly maximum manifestation extends larger than 1500 km in latitude and 3500-4000 km in longitude. In case of strong lowlatitudinal earthquakes there are effects related with the modification of the equatorial F2-region anomaly: deepening or filling of the ionospheric electron density trough over the magnetic equator

We do not discuss here the mechanism of generation of the seismogenic electric field and we do not explain, why the positive charges should accumulate on the western boundary of the near-epicentral region, and negative charges – on the eastern boundary or vice versa. We show only what kind of electric field can produce the TEC and NmF2 disturbances observed before strong earthquakes.

8. PatentStorm
yes there are probably alot of threads showing the patents for the technology to do all of the above and in reverse.... i just wanted to close with it

A method and apparatus for altering at least one selected region which normally exists above the earth's surface. The region is excited by electron cyclotron resonance heating to thereby increase its charged particle density.

13. The method of claim 1 wherein said electromagnetic radiation is generated at the site of a naturally-occurring hydrocarbon fuel source, said fuel source being located in at least one of northerly or southerly magnetic latitudes.

14. The method of claim 13 wherein said fuel source is natural gas and electricity for generating said electromagnetic radiation is obtained by burning said natural gas in at least one of magnetohydrodynamic, gas turbine, fuel cell, and EGD electric generators located at the site where said natural gas naturally occurs in the earth.

15. The method of claim 14 wherein said site of natural gas is within the magnetic latitudes that encompass Alaska.

thank you for your time, I hope during your reading your brain connected many dots.... there is plenty more info out there and allot of it is alarmingly connected to the POTENTIAL of creating earthquakes, awakening volcanos, and general earthly mischief.

interesting information. about the patents. there are a lot of patents on record. just because you've patented something doesn't mean it actually works. personally i think detecting earthquakes in the ionosphere is a far cry from causing them.

reply to post by optimus primal


if movement of the land can affect the sky why couldn't the sky effect the land if man was to affect the sky?

reply to post by Majestyka


You mean like wind blowing up dust?

reply to post by Majestyka


have you ever heard of a hurricane that moved a tectonic plate? neither have i.

Originally posted by Majestyka
reply to post by optimus primal

 

if movement of the land can affect the sky why couldn't the sky effect the land if man was to affect the sky?

edit on 13-4-2011 by Majestyka because: (no reason given)

If every time you see a house fire, a fire truck is there, do you think it logical to say that fire trucks are the main cause of house fires?

Correlation does not equal cause.

electric currents can cause quartz to vibrate..... stressing quartz can induce electric fields

Quartz is the second most abundant mineral in the Earth's continental crust

Quartz

the ionosphere being 100 to 300 km above the ground interacting with piezoelectric rock in the crust or vise versa.


optimus primal - a little higher in the sky my friend

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Majestyka
reply to post by optimus primal

 

if movement of the land can affect the sky why couldn't the sky effect the land if man was to affect the sky?

edit on 13-4-2011 by Majestyka because: (no reason given)

If every time you see a house fire, a fire truck is there, do you think it logical to say that fire trucks are the main cause of house fires?

Correlation does not equal cause.

no sir that is just silly, your example is flawed in the nature of how you describe the individual components.....an earthquake is far from being a house fire and ionosphere activity is not our fire truck.

but if i did see a house.....with plenty of smoke billowing out of it from all directions, i can ascertain that indeed something is incorrect as the houses i know do not billow smoke across 1000 km of the sky..... so is it logical to say that where there is smoke there is combustion. now if i give a house enough smoke can i create combustion?.... depends on if i have spark. if we consider the topic at hand..... if i excite the ionosphere enough in the right location will it provoke an earthquake? or do i need that spark? such as a preparing earthquake or stressed fault lines?

I see a lot of evidence that earthquakes cause disturbances in the ionosphere. Where is the data showing that disturbances in the ionosphere can _cause_ earthquakes? I mean, so far, this is like saying that because I can change channels on my tv I can cause the actors in the studio to change to new people.

It may well be the case that HAARP can induce earthquakes, but so far, all the evidence you've provided points to the relatively well-known fact that grinding up a few gigatons of rock can have weird electromagnetic effects.

Originally posted by Stunspot
I see a lot of evidence that earthquakes cause disturbances in the ionosphere. Where is the data showing that disturbances in the ionosphere can _cause_ earthquakes? I mean, so far, this is like saying that because I can change channels on my tv I can cause the actors in the studio to change to new people.

It may well be the case that HAARP can induce earthquakes, but so far, all the evidence you've provided points to the relatively well-known fact that grinding up a few gigatons of rock can have weird electromagnetic effects.

the data showing ionospheric disturbances cause eqs might be sitting on some desk at the haarp office BUT im not here to prove haarp can or cannot make eqs, just hypothesize on the science of how the ionosphere and the earth share a connection and where haarp could fit in the downstream direction. but so far all ive seen are grossly incorrect metaphors and some lazy members waiting for someone else to do the thinking. go back to watching tv my friend it seems to be serving you well.

so wierd electromagnetic effects (possibly haarp/ionospheric heating/excitement, ionospheric resonance) cannot effect/"grind up" a few gigaton of rock?

2x250g quartz crystal + 600v 300amp 3-phase service = quartz powder everywhere

**** i do not recommend trying this at home ****

as for your tv/actor metaphor.....this is also silly and literally makes no sense to the subject matter....in the quantum world you are correct in saying you change the actors but i digress. stop being an observer and start being a creator

since not many on ats use their brains anymore....
www.technologyreview.com...

Geologists have long puzzled over anecdotal reports of strange atmospheric phenomena in the days before big earthquakes. But good data to back up these stories has been hard to come by. In recent years, however, various teams have set up atmospheric monitoring stations in earthquake zones and a number of satellites are capable of sending back data about the state of the upper atmosphere and the ionosphere during an earthquake

reply to post by Majestyka


Again, correlation does not equal causation. Here is a link on critical thinking. HAARP gently heats the atmosphere, it can't cause earthquakes.

You would know this if you asked the obvious question, if HAARP can't move, how do they aim it?

reply to post by adeclerk


en.wikipedia.org...

The ionosphere is a region of the upper atmosphere, where neutral air is ionized by solar photons and cosmic rays. When radio waves reach the ionosphere at oblique incidence they are bent downwards (refracted) in the ionized layer. If, compared to the wave frequency, the midlayer ionization is important enough, the ray leaves the bottomside of the layer earthwards as if it were reflected from a mirror. If the ionization is not great enough the wave path is first bent downwards, but then (above the layer peak) upwards so that it leaves the topside of the layer with some displacement only. Skywave propagation occurs in the waveguide formed by the reflectors ground and ionosphere. With a one hop path distances up to 3500 km may be reached. Transatlantic connections are mostly obtained with two or three hops.[1]

again this is a conspiracy site that encourages speculation....but lately even in some of the more "out there" forums criticality is way over done. true that correlation does not always equal causation but once upon a time the notion that the earth revolved around the sun was completely absurd.... just cause we observe the sun rise and set doesn't mean that it doesn't revolve around us? or doesn't mean we revolve around the sun. all im trying to discuss is whether the mechanics surrounding the HAARP program have a potentiality of creating an EQ event. NOT that it does, has done, or will do.

The HF transmitter system is able to produce approximately 3.6 million Watts of radio frequency power.

there is nothing gentle about that amount of PE

Originally posted by Majestyka

The HF transmitter system is able to produce approximately 3.6 million Watts of radio frequency power.

there is nothing gentle about that amount of PE

The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 microwatts per cm2, tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere.

Source. Pretty gentle at the level of the atmosphere, hence why I didn't claim the transmitter itself was week. HAARP is harmless, seriously, how do they aim it to cause these earthquakes?

(Hint: They can't, and it isn't causing earthquakes :@@

Originally posted by Majestyka
reply to post by adeclerk

 

all im trying to discuss is whether the mechanics surrounding the HAARP program have a potentiality of creating an EQ event.

It is far too weak to cause any Earthquake, especially by time the radio waves bounce back to Earth. I don't understand why this has to continually be discussed. HAARP cannot potentially create any kind of event on the ground (much less create an event at the depths of tectonic plates).

reply to post by adeclerk
Please back these claims of what it cannot do with scientific proof and examples. Otherwise you're just another debunker pulling the "power output is too low" card, like that settles it.

If you also think HAARP's broadcasting capabilities are limited to one station, or that they cannot "aim" their radio waves, though, forget about it because you've got some catching up to do.

reply to post by Majestyka


Not only is it obvious, after reading through the entire thing, that the earthquakes themselves are causing the measurable reactions in the ionosphere, not the other way 'round, credibility of these suggestions is further eroded by the serious mention of something that is fantasy, and myth and hoax...."chem"-trails.

Once again.....the simple fact that in most of the discussion, the ionosphere was being referred to......and, even you emphasized the levels where that layer resides. SO.....quite impossible for airplanes to reach those levels.

The additional mistake, and emphasis was placed on the word "aerosol", and evidently once again, that term is misunderstood, in the context of those papers that were sourced.

"aerosol" in those definitions does not mean to imply intentionally *sprayed* material....it is the naturally-occurring stuff. A more careful reading of the documents will reveal this.....

Originally posted by Sek82
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Please back these claims of what it cannot do with scientific proof and examples. Otherwise you're just another debunker pulling the "power output is too low" card, like that settles it.

If you also think HAARP's broadcasting capabilities are limited to one station, or that they cannot "aim" their radio waves, though, forget about it because you've got some catching up to do.

You seem to not know how the burden of proof works, but I would be more than happy to fill you in. You see, the burden of proof is on the claimant. If you are so daft as to suggest that HAARP is causing earthquakes and interacting with "chemstuff", then I'm going to need to see some evidence.

reply to post by adeclerk


propagation

Radio propagation is also affected by several other factors determined by its path from point to point. This path can be a direct line of sight path or an over-the-horizon path aided by refraction in the ionosphere

3uw/cm2 is indeed quite small, both in energy and area of effect.

3 uw = 0.0000003 W/cm2

3600000 potential watts
----------------------------------- = 12,000,000,000,000 cm2 of "heated" area or 120 000 000 km2
0.0000003 w/cm2

some critical thinking goes along way since that amount of heated sky is about 23.5% of the earths surface!!!!!

im going to assume HAARP cannot cover such a wide area (please correct me if iam wrong)
so common sense tells me if my area of effect decreases the amount of energy available for the area increases. (again correct me if im wrong)