Obama Just Said that 'Welfare' Made This Country Great...While Trying to Quote Lincoln...

Once you take your rose colored glasses off you will know a few truths.

1. America was never a 'great' country.

2. America was built on the backs of slaves.

3. American distribution of wealth is more top heavy than Egypt.

4. The "Middle Class" didn't even exist until after WWII.

5. General Electric paid ZERO to the IRS last year. How much did you pay?

6. Our debt exploded during Regan's regime, and continued to do so into Bush Sr's regime. The Clinton regime had a surplus, which the Bush Jr. regime spent and destroyed.

Originally posted by Furbs
Once you take your rose colored glasses off you will know a few truths.

1. America was never a 'great' country.

2. America was built on the backs of slaves.

3. American distribution of wealth is more top heavy than Egypt.

4. The "Middle Class" didn't even exist until after WWII.

5. General Electric paid ZERO to the IRS last year. How much did you pay?

6. Our debt exploded during Regan's regime, and continued to do so into Bush Sr's regime. The Clinton regime had a surplus, which the Bush Jr. regime spent and destroyed.

The simple solution: Move out of the area commonly referred to on the World Atlas maps as the United States of America.

1. America is not, nor ever will be the Soviet Union or China or a fascimile of either communist state.

2. There has NEVER in history been a Utopia or a super power that did not crush someone, somewhere. Same goes for China and the Soviet Union and India and Pakistan and Britain and Japan and Indonesia and every other country that has the ability to live far about slum standards.

3. It's a Darwinian world. Wringing a crying towel is not one of the steps rising higher in the food chain.

4. Russi is as much Stalinist as it was before the Soviet duma collapsed during the Gorbachev era. Communist Russia has adapted to the changing times to become a more free market communist state. Just like Hugo Chavez's Venezuela and China.

5. Saudi Arabia has the fewest numbers of wealthiest people in the world, with the greatest numbers of poor. But Saudi Arabia has the oil. You can't survive without oil unless you go back to whale oil. Then you'd be killing all the whales and the liberals would be angry at you about that imposed sin.

6. There has ALWAYS been a poor class throughout history, in every corner of the world. Be that as it may, in the past ten thousand years of human history, no one has ever eradicated poverty.

7. Famine will drag everyone down to the poverty class.

8. If you find Utopia, send us a post card.

Sorry,i just can´t see the US surviving much longer as it is

Sure, we have our issues...but one of the world's largest economies isn't just going to gasp and die folks...

Personally, I'd think that many other world economies would be looking to do all they can to NOT allow the US to fail...because if it does, it just might decide to USE the military might it has, and adopt an imperialist viewpoint to survive, and I don't think anyone wants that (us included). Just taking a tip from the history books....

I hate obama and any one who thinks hes doing and good job... im 15 to god sakes and said on the verryyy 1st day i heard he was runnig that he was no good...that states is in trouble

Originally posted by meeneecat
This is just so sad to read some of the replies on here...and of course the misinformation that many people's beliefs are based on. I do agree with a previous commenter here who said the goal of the new right-wing extreme neo-liberals is to decimate this country by looting the middle class and transferring massive amounts of wealth to the top 1%.

I was heartened the other day to see the new WSJ/NBC poll that shows that these Washington "insiders" "elites" "extremists" whatever you want to call them, are hugely out of touch with the average American.

Before I go into some of the known facts about the budget and economy as well as all the misleading information that many of the budget extremists and t-baggers are base their positions on. I want to put this all in perspective by showing what actual Americans want from the government:

A) The majority of respondents, 51%, felt that "the government needs to do more". While 46% thought it should do less (the rest "unsure").

B) Only 29% of respondents considers themselves a "supporter" of the Tea Party Movement, while 61% do NOT support them (the rest "unsure"/"it depends").

C) When asked if it is necessary to cut Medicare in order to "significantly reduce the deficit". Only 18% of respondents said "yes", while a majority of 54% said "no". (the rest "unsure/no opinion"). Similarly for Social Security 49% said "no" and only 22% said "yes".

D) When given a list of various programs of which could be cut, respondents were asked to rate each as totally acceptable, mostly acceptable, mostly unacceptable, and totally unacceptable. Options such as Social Security, Education, Medicare, Medicaid, and Heating to Low income families, were all last on the list (in that order) as being "mostly or totally unacceptable" to cut spending from. A whopping 77% felt it was "mostly or totally unacceptable" to cut Social Security. Medicare, again a whopping 76% felt it was unacceptable to cut the program, with Medicaid being at 67% and Education 77%.

E) Among options that would be "most acceptable" of programs that could be "cut or eliminated" at the top of the list was "Surtax on millionaires" of which a whopping 80% felt would be "mostly or totally acceptable"...80%!!! (only 17% were against it). Next on the list was the "elimination of earmarks" which got 78% "mostly or totally acceptable". Eliminating necessary weapons systems from defense was next at 76% acceptable. "Eliminating tax credits for oil & gas companies" at 74% approval and "phasing out Bush tax cuts for those making over 250,000" was at 68% approval.

And for those who want to dismiss this study by saying something like "they probably asked a bunch of liberals"...well according to the participants. 36% identified as "somewhat or very conservative", 38% as "moderate", and only 24% as "somewhat or very liberal" (with the rest being "not sure").

(Source)

Now I want to talk about the deficit and economy.

One major thing that has bothered me, has been all these assertions that "unions" or "welfare queens" or "lazy unemployed americans" have been the ones to cause the big deficit. That is simply not true. The deficits are a result of the recent economic crisis, and partly a reduction in tax revenues. Spending is not as important as most are claiming it to be, because often times, spending money now, has the effect of saving money in the future. Sure it doesn't hurt to cut wasteful programs and being a "smart investor" are all good things, however any economist will tell you that it's just bad policy to cut government spending in times of economic downturns. You cut spending in times of economic prosperity. Government spending should increase, however, during recessions in order to pick up the slack lost by the private sector.

Two years ago, faced with soaring unemployment and large budget deficits -- both the consequences of a severe financial crisis -- most advanced-country leaders (Europe) seemingly understood that the problems had to be tackled in sequence, with an immediate focus on creating jobs combined with a long-run strategy of deficit reduction.

Why not slash deficits immediately? Because tax increases and cuts in government spending would depress economies further, worsening unemployment. And cutting spending in a deeply depressed economy is largely self-defeating even in purely fiscal terms: any savings achieved at the front end are partly offset by lower revenue, as the economy shrinks.

So jobs now, deficits later was and is the right strategy. Unfortunately, it's a strategy that has been abandoned in the face of phantom risks and delusional hopes.

(Source).
Now considering that all the greed and corruption on Wall Street was a major cause of this economic downturn, this is why people find it especially vexing, and just plain cruel, that draconian austerity measures are being applied to everyone else, except this class of wealthy elite money-grubbers that caused the tanking of the economy in the first place. As Paul Krugman put it:

"the poor must accept big cuts in Medicaid and food stamps; the middle class must accept big cuts in Medicare (actually a dismantling of the whole program); and corporations and the rich must accept big cuts in the taxes they have to pay. Shared sacrifice! "

Either way, it seems the entire washington beltway, has simply chosen to ignore the fact that these deficits are also a function of the recession, and perhaps better way would be to expand the economy first and create more jobs...and then go after certain wasteful spending after the economy returns to health. From the CBO:

Since last August, the outlook for the ten-year budget deficit has deteriorated by $1.4 trillion (see Table A-1 on pages 106-7). Note that more than 100% of the deterioration is due to revenue losses; projected federal revenues over the (fiscal years) 2011-20 period declined by $1.9 trillion–a net $713 billion due to recent legislation (the lame-duck deficit-financed tax cuts), but a larger $958 billion due to negative revisions to the economic forecast and the interaction of those economic changes with our less-than-adequately-robust-or-resilient income tax base.

Source Source
What baffles my mind, is that republicans are proposing yet even MORE tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy (and austerity for everyone else). The Ryan plan calls for cutting the top marginal rate to 25 percent — lower than it has been at any time in the past 80 years. Let's look at how those Bush tax cuts stack up against the deficit.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/285035de987d.gif[/atsimg]
Contrary to what some believe, tax cuts are not "deficit neutral"...nor do they "pay for themselves". Here's another couple interesting charts. Here's a trend showing decreasing tax rates with increasing debt and an inverse relationship (again tax cuts = less revenue = increased debt)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5afec63ba631.jpg[/atsimg]

the claim that lower taxes mean higher revenue — is still very much there. The Heritage Foundation projection has large tax cuts actually increasing revenue by almost $600 billion over the next 10 years.

A more sober assessment from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office tells a different story. It finds that a large part of the supposed savings from spending cuts would go, not to reduce the deficit, but to pay for tax cuts. In fact, the budget office finds that over the next decade the plan would lead to bigger deficits and more debt than current law.

Source

And where do these savings mostly come from in the "Ryan Plan":
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6bcda93b6f36.jpg[/atsimg]
Ah, Of course, the poor and working class. I can't help but think that this has nothing to do with the budget, and all about cutting programs that the new T-party Republicans don't like. Literally what we have is a transfer of wealth to the top...of course it's been happening for the past 30 years, since the implementation of all these "free trade deals", "NATFA", "regressive tax policy" and "neo-liberal economic policies" The vast middle class that made this country so great, is being decimated before our eyes. It's the coming Plutocracy.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/911a7d740438.jpg[/atsimg]
While I can post plenty of charts, and show trends, and how corporations have highjacked our government and manipulated policies towards their own end, by the rich, for the rich...what I understand the least, is how some Americans, middle class Americans, can support this type of policy, against their own economic interest. How they can defend the decimation of the middle class. How they can defend the feckless corporate plutocracy. How can they hate the middle class so much? How can they call American workers "self-entitled, lazy, whiners" when American's have the longest work week of any country in the entire first world, along with least amount of vacation and fewest benefits (if they get benefits as all, since most don't). Of course the corporate class is, I'm sure, happy about this demonization of working Americans, as it plays towards their end goal, a race to the bottom for the rest of us, in which an American worker is forced to compete with factory workers making pennies on the dollar in 3rd world countries like Malaysia and the Philippines. It's a logic that says T-baggers and folks on the radical right would rather this country looked more like Pakistan or Africa because those "evil nazi socialist" European states like Sweden and France, where people live longer and can afford homes and can see doctors when they get sick, are all probably such "horrible" places to live. How did we get here? Anyone care to explain?

[note: I'm sure I'll have to come back and add on to what I've said here, as I'm sure there will be a lot of "accusations" thrown at me for daring to question the almighty rich and wealthy elite]

Thats some nice information you provide there...factual and researched.
You might consider taking this and doing a thread on it specifically...however, I have noted that one side of the argument discard any facts and go on feelings and retoric, still, there are the middle folks whom simply want the numbers over the noise...and typically all these conversations tend to focus on those people, not the ones in your back pocket, nor the ones that are blinded by rage just on principle of being of opposite party.

Obama's speech was a joke, and lacked any real topic discussion. And to prove my point, heres Vice President Biden taking Obama's speech seriously...whats that? Is he sleeping, Oh no wait , no just listening with his eyes closed!

reply to post by Shenon


Ron Paul has been around forever. How old are you?

It's never mattered because after all these years, the people who actually run this country simply laugh in Ron Paul's direction.

Originally posted by 15FORreal
I hate obama and any one who thinks hes doing and good job... im 15 to god sakes and said on the verryyy 1st day i heard he was runnig that he was no good...that states is in trouble

Stay the course, buddy. The future is in your hands.

There WILL be a war coming inside the borders of the United States. I'm not predicting what year. Could be next year, 2012. Could be more like in 2060 the way Nostradamus and Sir Issac Newton predicted.

But when it comes, it's going to be your generation carrying the burden. What we adults can best do is to teach your generation the truth. Not to cover it up with sugary politically correct forms of denial.

You don't have to be in the Boy Scouts to be prepared.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Obama's speech was a joke, and lacked any real topic discussion. And to prove my point, heres Vice President Biden taking Obama's speech seriously...whats that? Is he sleeping, Oh no wait , no just listening with his eyes closed!

That's absolutely beautifully a picture worth a million words. It has gone out over the internet to all my contacts. Thanks..........

Originally posted by fredvcall

I noticed that you didn't actually refute any of the facts I have posted. That is a step in the right direction.

In an answer to the things you have posted...

Do you feel comfortable with what the government of the United States of America has done in your name in the past 30 years?

If your answer is anything but 'Yes', maybe you should join me on an epic quest for some new real estate.


Oh, wait, I just looked at a few of your other posts.. I don't think you and I are operating on the same level of lucidity.

reply to post by fredvcall


Real Socialism has never existed in America or anywhere else on a national level, same with Communism.

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by 15FORreal
I hate obama and any one who thinks hes doing and good job... im 15 to god sakes and said on the verryyy 1st day i heard he was runnig that he was no good...that states is in trouble

Stay the course, buddy. The future is in your hands.

There WILL be a war coming inside the borders of the United States. I'm not predicting what year. Could be next year, 2012. Could be more like in 2060 the way Nostradamus and Sir Issac Newton predicted.

So, what do we have
Reinforcement of snap judgement hate...check
Demanding a new civil war happens when fair and free elections fail...check
Nostradumbass referenced...check

Going to make a leap to conclusion here and suggest you have no advanced education degree, do ya...mhmm, ya, didn't think so.

As far as the war coming inside of the border...here is a hint you types never understand....you grabbing your gun and shooting up a local winn dixie is not a war...its just a murderous crime...and when your sitting on death row, your not in a POW camp...your just in prison for murdering innocent people because you didn't like an election result.

Reality...join it

Originally posted by fredvcall
.........where he subliminally/supraliminally promises .....

I stopped reading right there, but I suppose I should prepare for more of this nonsense as the election approaches.

Originally posted by fredvcall
Like I said, watch the John Stossel report.

Because FOX is a bastion of unbiased and honest reporting.

Stossel had a makeup artist fix him to look like a homeless person. He sat on the sidewalk collecting collecting a hundred dollars per day, tax free. Their cameras followed panhandlers from the streets to their suburban homes, because they were making easier money panhandling, rather than getting a job. Being on welfare has become a profession. Not a need.

stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com...

That does not change the twisted logic in your sentence where you claim people are learning how to be poor because of how rich being poor makes them. There is a difference between pretending to be poor and being poor. If you are doing well financially, you are not actually poor. So your claim that they are studying how to be poor becuase of how profitable makes no sense no matter how much FOX bias you toss at it. I was just noticing the interesting juxtaposition of words there.

People act like Obama is responsible for it all. As far as I or anyone else should be concerned, this is a problem that has been building for quite some time. Politics are a facade. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that there are bigger powers at work here. It's like a soap opera.

The world economy is supposed to fail. That's the plan. Or, at least, part of it.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

Ya, in an attempt to recessitate a DOW that was near 8,000

It was above 12,000 today, current tax rate is lower than most republican presidencies in the last 60 years, come on stop lying....

Don't you get tired of pretending? It's like you reckon we were all born yesterday, you wouldn't do this face to face cause you would look like a fool, your very guts would feel ashamed for the make believe act.

Social Security and Medicare were around for decades in a healthy economy, you have nothing of substance

The GOP engineered an economic crash
Then they used the backlash and fear to press through their political whims

edit on 14-4-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

\


Its not that... its just that this particular commentary if fed by Faux News talking points. Only in that world does the postal service not work, roads don't get maintained, and everyone on public assistance is a druggie smoking weed with five kids...

Originally posted by fredvcall

Hmmmm. So far all the welfare programs are failing. Including FDR's social security programs. It's taken a while, but Socialism is failing BIG time in America.

Entrepreneurs and industrialists are taking their talents to other countries. There are fewer and fewer jobs in America.

Entrepreneurs and industrialists are taking their talents to other countries- because they are socialist countries. The more we cut programs that keep our lifespans rising and our people healthy and educated- the faster the corporations flee. Our programs aren't 'failing'.. they are being murdered.


In China, in the industrialized areas:

Labors housing is subsidized - massive, clean, crime free housing complexes built by government.

Labors health care is free, resulting in a healthy workforce that shows up every day.

Labors Education- elementary through university- is free, resulting in an educated and technologically literate work force.

Labors transportation is subsidized by a fast, clean, inexpensive wifi'ed mass transportation system.

Labors food is subsidized, where necessary, by the equivalent of food coupons.

Labors internet is free.

Labors energy bills are subsidized.

This massive socialist program allows corporations to pay 'starvation' wages to a labor force and still have a highly educated labor force that does not have to worry about being too sick, homeless or hungry to show up for work every day.

So Americans are expected to live 'Capitalist everyone is on his own lifestyles', and compete against a Socialist system that is obviously winning.

So how can you possibly say that Socialism doesn't work? The strongest economic periods in the US were when we had strong Unions and a strong social safety net. The Right has been pecking at that safety net for 20 years and look where it has gotten us.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Whereweheaded

 

No these are progams are not unconstitutional programs. FDR got out us of the great depression how is that NOT an accomplishment? His second bill of rights would have given everyone housing, a job and the freedom from the control of monopolies. How is that not a good thing? This is the vision of america to give everyone an equal oppurnity to live a decent life. This is why so many people came over from different countries and why many people still come. We at least attempt to take care of our own and help others who want to become citzens.
What is wrong with being for life and happiness. That is in the consitution. We need a bill that gives everyone the right to be free from extreme poverty!

edit on 13-4-2011 by dreamseeker because: (no reason given)

You confuse "opportunity" with "gift". Everyone has the opportunity, those whom seize it get what they want. Far more "rich" people started middle class in this country than started rich.

The horror, the absolute horror and gnashing of teeth is all based on returning spending to the level it was in 2007.
The gimmegimmegimme crowd can't handle that.

Just remember kids, the Constitution assures us of equal oppourtunity, NOT equal outcome.

For that, you'll have to go to Cuba.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

You really like to glorify communism/Marxism don't you? Got a picture of Che in your apartment? Or Lenin? Karl Marx?

You can't dismissed the specific merits of my post, nor can you present positive defenses for your reasoning,
so you employ Mccarthyism, very 1950's.

I challenge you to tell me what I am wrong about... I will wait here and you lay it on me, at least show some respect
for this community and give us some substance.