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Does God regularly reward rebellion?

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posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Does God regularly reward rebellion?

God, in the beginning, rebelled against the status quo that he had lived in for millennia.
He rejected what was and created what we have today and gained a reward, pleasure. He was pleased and named it all good. To insure that the trend of rebellion continued, he brought Satan to earth and ordered him to tempt Adam and Eve. The only way Adam and Eve could know that they were autonomous entities was to go against God’s command.

Satan is said to be the first autonomous entity, other than God, to rebel. He was rewarded by being named the King of this world. God’s jewel and greatest achievement till that time. This truth is exemplified by his tempting Jesus by offering him the world. If it was not his world to give, there would not have been a temptation for Jesus to face and master. Mark 1: 13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan.

Adam and Eve were next to rebel. Their reward as we know was to be elevated to God like status. Genesis : 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. They were also given dominion of the earth, as is plain to see.

Moses, rebelled against Pharaoh and was also rewarded with a kingdom. Israel. Noah, rebelled against the rest of mankind and was rewarded with a new earth.

Jesus rebelled against the status quo of the written laws and was rewarded by being said to have saved the whole of mankind. Even as believers think only their pitiful little numbers are saved. A hold over from old tribal thinking.

There can only be one conclusion to what is written. God regularly rewards rebellion.

In heaven as on earth.
Mankind does the same. In these times in the middle east, we see much rebellion against authority, while we in the west are applauding their efforts and indeed, helping them to the best of our present capabilities.

We also have our own examples of the benefits of rebellion.
The U S rebellion against England. Canada’s rebellion against our own European masters. Our own rebellious hero’s such as Rosa Parks and Louis Riel. In these cases, not only personal fame was gained but also a betterment for all of us.

There can only be one conclusion here as well. Man regularly rewards rebellion.

Now the ancient Jews and Hebrew interpreted their scriptures of Eden as the elevation of mankind. To know good and evil, the root of our moral sense, and be as knowledgeable as God, was seen as a great benefit. Somehow, Christianity turned that view, which was consistent with the above precedent, to one of a fall for mankind.

This Gnostic Christian disagrees with the Christian view because, first of all, I would not want to live like a dumb animal, without a moral sense or being able to recognize good and evil at a level higher than instincts. Further, we all know that almost any topic or issue you can think of has good and evil implications and conditions and without knowledge of good and evil, we would not even be able to discuss much of anything and society would stagnate.

Rebellion, from the Christian viewpoint, is a sin and evil and Eden was our fall.
If we go with this view, we must see reality somehow going against Gods wishes and must see him as a loser.

If we go with Gnostic Christian, Hebrew and Jewish interpretations, we end with a God who is a winner.

God and mankind thus seem to benefit to a huge extent thanks to rebellion and sin.
Would our secular laws be as good as they are if people had not rebelled against the older religious laws and amended them to the degree we have?

Should Christianity and other non progressive religions, notably Islam, rebel against their more draconian laws and continue the trend of benefiting from rebellion?

Does God and man regularly reward rebellion?

Regards
DL




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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Cool interesting idea, but how does the gods of other religion's reward us for rebellion, ie Wiccan?
just a thought, would be interesting to see if it carries across.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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I used to believe in fate, and consequences. But apparently crime and corruption pay. Murder is usually not prosecuted to the extent of the crime, and if you are a CEO or gov. official you have a license to steal with absolutely no consequence.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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I don't believe this to be the case,afterall,when Adam and Eve sinned they were punished and were not likely to get god like status.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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That's an interesting way to look at it. I definitely feel that rebelling against Satan is what would constitute a "reward." But everything happens for a reason; not all rebellion and their subsequent results are actually a reward, because they can and often do get taken away. Rather, things are set in motion for an inevitable outcome, whatever it may be.

About Adam and Eve though. They were punished for transgression and exiled, not exactly rewarded. Adam lived for over 900 years and God was always there with him and helped him along, and he had a very big family
, but Adam still died like anyone else. Speaking of Gnostic text, from Gospel of Thomas:

85. Jesus said, "Adam came from great power and great wealth, but he was not worthy of you. For had he been worthy, [he would] not [have tasted] death."

You may also want to read the "Book of Adam and Eve." I don't really see any great reward in his life because he suffered quite a bit, tasted death (and was not "resurrected" like Jesus), and many of his grand children, as well as Cain of course, went astray. Enoch however seems to have never died unlike the rest of Adam's lineage.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Satan was tossed out of heaven and lost his place as the pinnacle of angels.

Adam and Eve were tossed out of the garden and fell to the curse of sin. Their actions pretty brought all of creation down.

Moses, due to rebellion, died before they reached the promised land. He was not allowed to enter.

Jesus was not punished by God for rebellion (it was the Romans for anti-state rebellion). He was sent with His whole mission to redeem mankind.

Sorry, don't see your perspective at all in this.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by sprocket2cog
Cool interesting idea, but how does the gods of other religion's reward us for rebellion, ie Wiccan?
just a thought, would be interesting to see if it carries across.


I am not familiar with Wiccan so cannot answer with any certainty.

Any magic thiough would be, in a sense, a revolt against nature and physics and any such breach would be bound to bring rewards.
I think Wicca is more naturalist than magical though.

Regards
DL



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Viking9019
I don't believe this to be the case,afterall,when Adam and Eve sinned they were punished and were not likely to get god like status.


Yet God says that they did become as Gods. You might want to re-read the myth.

Regards
DL



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
That's an interesting way to look at it. I definitely feel that rebelling against Satan is what would constitute a "reward." But everything happens for a reason; not all rebellion and their subsequent results are actually a reward, because they can and often do get taken away. Rather, things are set in motion for an inevitable outcome, whatever it may be.

About Adam and Eve though. They were punished for transgression and exiled, not exactly rewarded. Adam lived for over 900 years and God was always there with him and helped him along, and he had a very big family
, but Adam still died like anyone else. Speaking of Gnostic text, from Gospel of Thomas:

85. Jesus said, "Adam came from great power and great wealth, but he was not worthy of you. For had he been worthy, [he would] not [have tasted] death."

You may also want to read the "Book of Adam and Eve." I don't really see any great reward in his life because he suffered quite a bit, tasted death (and was not "resurrected" like Jesus), and many of his grand children, as well as Cain of course, went astray. Enoch however seems to have never died unlike the rest of Adam's lineage.


How in hell can you be reading Gnostic Gospels and still believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Sigh.

You also have to remember that almost no one but foolish Christians take scriptures literally or historically. Only Christians will believe in talking animals and a water walking immortal God who can somehow die for them.

You will be aware no doubt that Constantine's Church burn Gnostic gospels and killed many a Gnostic as well.They did not like them because they were brighter than the average Christian and unlike sheeple, did not just follow but actually thought about spiritual maters.

There is some good info in the following. I mostly ignore the shroom thing. I think it was around but perhaps not to the extent they speak of. Who can say though. The old temples were there to entertain as well as enlighten.

www.youtube.com...

If your theology demands fantasy, miracles and magic then Gnosticism is not for you.
I call myself a Gnostic Christian thanks to my apotheosis and if you can discard fantasy and magic then please come back and chat.

Regards
DL



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Satan was tossed out of heaven and lost his place as the pinnacle of angels.

Adam and Eve were tossed out of the garden and fell to the curse of sin. Their actions pretty brought all of creation down.

Moses, due to rebellion, died before they reached the promised land. He was not allowed to enter.

Jesus was not punished by God for rebellion (it was the Romans for anti-state rebellion). He was sent with His whole mission to redeem mankind.

Sorry, don't see your perspective at all in this.


I see that. You see God as a loser who cannot get anything done right while I try to make him look like a winner.

Regards
DL



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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God gave "dominion" of the Earth to man. Man forfeited that dominion right to satan when he chose to trust him rather than God.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
God gave "dominion" of the Earth to man. Man forfeited that dominion right to satan when he chose to trust him rather than God.


Yet man is the one exercising dominion. Those who can, do. Those who cannot, don't.
So much for Satan.
You should know that I do not believe in fantasy, miracles or magic.
Your God and Satan are of that imaginary realm.

FYPOV, Jesus was never tempted then? Or did Satan fool and deceive him?

Regards
DL



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


It's a moot point to answer your Qs considering you don't really have them now isn't it?



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