Freemasonry: a Cult of Neofascist, Militant, Genocidal, Capitalists and anti-Communists.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Good, God, godly, moral, and Religious Sophistry (ramblings).

Oh, that's rich... Lucifer777 complaining about somebody besides himself rambling in one of his threads. Feeling threatened, Lou?

If the God stuff offends you, why don't you edit IT out and actually adress the other stuff Pike was saying in that passage. Sounds pretty much like Marxist philosophy to me...

The capitalist can live without employing the laborer, and discharges him whenever that labor ceases to be profitable. At the moment when the weather is most inclement, provisions dearest, and rents highest, he turns him off to starve. if the day-laborer is taken sick, his wages stop. When old, he has no pension to retire upon. His children cannot be sent to school; for before their bones are hardened they must get to work lest they starve. The man, strong and able-bodied, works for a shilling or two a day, and the woman shivering over her little pan of coals, when the mercury drops far below zero, after her hungry children have wailed themselves to sleep, sews by the dim light of her lonely candle, for a bare pittance, selling her life to him who bargained only for the work of her needle.
…
How to deal with this apparently inevitable evil and mortal disease is by far the most important of all social problems. What is to be done with pauperism and over-supply of labor? How is the life of any country to last, when brutality and drunken semi-barbarism vote, and hold offices in their gift, and by fit representatives of themselves control a government?

Wasn't that what Marx & Engels were writing about?

There is no question that some Freemasons of the 18th and 19th century and to a lessor extent the early 20th century were Anarchists, Communists, Socialists etc., "especially" the French Freemasons. The general idea that those who held radical political ideologies attempted to infiltrate Masonry certainly has some credibility in esepcially the 18th and 19th centuries; however many men such as Proudhon, joined Masonry in their early adult life as part of their career / apprenticeship path, and later came to hold radical political views.

However...in the 21st century I find no evidence of such radical politics, and Freemasons generally tend to act as a Capitalist gang, and tend to be anti-Communists and Anglo-American state terrorist / narco-terrorist collaborators.

Further in the "Study of Religion" and the study of "political propaganda" it is important not to get too caught up in the sophistry and ramblings of the cultists and propagandists themselves, as they generally all wish to portray themselves in an attractive form when writing and speaking; it is much more important to study their actual behaviour. If one were only to read to to ramblings of Lybia's dictator, Colonel Gaddhafi in his classic "Little Green Book," one might think that he was a democratic socialist and a humanitarian, however one must always study a person's behaviour and the behaviour of religious cultists, not merely their words; no competent judge would ignore the behaviour of a criminal and only listen to his pleadings of innocence and self-righteousness.

If the Freemasons were a revolutionary Communist or Socialist organisation dedicated to the economic liberation of humankind, then even then it would still be important to not suspend criticism towards them, and to scrutinise and analyse them; however I do not find this to be the case with Freemasonry and that this perspective of Freemasons having a Communist agenda is a just one of the many bizzarre anti-Masonic conspiracy theories of the US political Right and the Henry-Makow-ite fanatics and conspiracy theorists.

Lux

So all I am understanding is that you don't like Capitalism (in any form I presume) .. are a self styled "Communist" and you have a major issue with the York Rite and the Shrine. Oh and religion (of any form I presume).

You believe that because Free Masonry and the bodies that accept only Masons as members are by default religious because of religious wording either in degrees and or some guy wrote it in a book. You also believe they are all Capitalist, though you fail to rationalize why or how you believe Masonry is "Capitalist" .. you also believe that Masonry is in some way connected to drug smuggling (I have not figured this one out yet). At the same time all Masons are Fascist ... which is the complete opposite of Capitalism and is in fact a form of Socialism (ie, communism) .. And while Masons are evil and Satanic.. they are also obviously way to Christian and Jewish for you..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
So all I am understanding is that you don't like Capitalism (in any form I presume) .. are a self styled "Communist" and you have a major issue with the York Rite and the Shrine. Oh and religion (of any form I presume).

You believe that because Free Masonry and the bodies that accept only Masons as members are by default religious because of religious wording either in degrees and or some guy wrote it in a book. You also believe they are all Capitalist, though you fail to rationalize why or how you believe Masonry is "Capitalist" .. you also believe that Masonry is in some way connected to drug smuggling (I have not figured this one out yet). At the same time all Masons are Fascist ... which is the complete opposite of Capitalism and is in fact a form of Socialism (ie, communism) .. And while Masons are evil and Satanic.. they are also obviously way to Christian and Jewish for you..

I have not claimed that the Masons are Satanists; that is a claim which Christians generally make with regards to other cults which compete with them in the multi-billion dollar religion marketplace; I am the Satanist here, from a Christian perspective, not the Masons; the Masons, like the Christians tend to revere a being whom they refer to as God (and by other names), and whom they beleive is "good" but when their definition of what is "good" is dissected and their behaviour is examined, it is clear that this "God" is just a definition of an anti-Communist, Capitalist Devil.

"Neo-fascism usually includes nationalism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy."

The history of US state terrorism / narco-terrorism makes it quite clear that the "only" form of democracy they will support is a Capitalist government which suits their own economic interests; if a government is "elected" which does not suit their economic interests, they will seek to overthrow that government, as has been the case in many CIA backed revolutions of the far Right in Latin America. Further one have a "democratic world" in a Capitalist system anyway, Capitalism is about the rule of the Capitalists and of one nation state over another, not of the proletariat. The vast majority of people in the world are impoverished, but the world is still ruled by an oligarchy of Capitalist elites.

Lux

"The criticism of religion is the premise of all criticism."" Marx.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Tho we may not agree on god and other things, I have to agree with you on this one.
I have always stated that masonry in general starts with the royality of scums across Europe, and with the crusades that killed many many people. They have a lot of monkeys at their disposal, people that are willing to become a monkey for something in return. It is how it works, this organisation is just among others, I call it the control mechanism, control with religion, enslavement, making the human weak and obidiant to top it off with practice and knowlege of the occult.

People like them invented Christianity, not that I have something against Jesus, I don't his teachings were good.
One starts to wonder if they did not add to the bible, aditional words to control even better, they put the books they saw fit and made the bible, who knows what else they added in there.

They saw this as an oportunity to control the population and they used it as such, to always control the little guy, to always tax him and use fear to intimidate by the sword. This was main stream religion.
I have to add that they are part of Roman descent, and the Roman empire, this was done by the Roman empire, to control people, I have to say you felt for it, Jesus has nothing to do with it, has no fault.
They killed him then they made a religion out of it it's the same roman empire, same people, you think they give two cents about Jesus ? they don't.

Today it's not working, they wanted to bring a new religion based on Gaia, Budism and new age. Mix it and make one religion out of it, while today they are exposed, there is little before anything can be done, the implementation of one world order.

You are right, the donation or charity is to show a nice face, it's at the surface, superficial to put up a nice face, while behind the scenes they use the money for prostitution or who knows what.
They can't stand it when you talk bad about them, on no our "stainless organisation" masonry the most respected blah blah blah.

reply to post by Lucifer777


Yes, there is much literature on the subject area you mention, which I suppose is the modern Anglo-American form of Imperialism. But as I said, and I'll stand by it, referencing Coleman's "research" is not the best way to go. It's not a way to go at all as far as I'm concerned.
You may have heard of this historian yourself, but I'll include a link to his Wiki page and website for others on ATS to look into. I just have to include some real investigative work here to balance out the mere mention of Coleman and his crud:

en.wikipedia.org...

markcurtis.info...

I find Curtis' work excellent.

Deleted post.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Why do you keep posting the wrong things over and over again?

You make all sorts of outrageous claims, but the problem is that your claims are based on your belief and opinion, which is not fact.

You sir are the propagandist, the mouth piece of the communists, humanists, and materialists/atheists. 

You call us fascists but we Freemasons are not calling for your extermination. You are the one calling upon for our demise using whatever means to do it, to include the tainting of history and fabricating lies about us. You are the one espousing fascist beliefs not us.

If you want to start a country ran on communism then go find a parcel of land, purchase it, and do what you will there. Not everyone follows your line of belief. Nor does this belief in something different justify a hatred or a reason to kill. 

reply to post by Lucifer777

Freemasonry is not a religion and you really need to figure that out. Nor do I get what you don't like about independence from government intrusion.

I would have to disagree that we Freemasons are nationalists. As you have so labeled us as Capitalists we'd believe in a small central government, which I do. Nor would capitalist go along with the nationalist's idea of converting private industry to government control. Nationalists are basically socialized and communists. 

Are Freemasons patriotic? Most of them yes, but being patriotic to the belief of freedom. I for one have a slight isolationist outlook. 

Also, look at the communists who were playing the same puppet game the CIA played. The Cold War was a big chess match between the US and the Communists. You can't say only the US has done bad things in history. Look at the dictatorships and what style of government they had. Oppressive governments were always large national governments where they endeavored to control all aspects of their servants lives. Capitalism is a FREE market, FREEDOM of choice, with minimal government intrusion. Capitalism, freedom, inspires advancement while such systems like communism stagnates and inhibits the progress of medical and technological advances. Under oppressive government incentive goes out the window and mediocrity sets in as the standard.

reply to post by pepsi78

Masonry is a world wide organization, but nowhere do we owe loyalty to the aristocracy and royalty of Europe. Nor is Freemasonry tied to the Crusades.

It's also very rude to call us monkeys as if we are just simple creatures. To say that the members are just tools, incapable of independent thought, to be used for some greater cause shows a lack of understanding of Freemasonry, and the structure. I have yet to see from the anti-Masons a structure of Freemasonry; how the concordant (or appendant) bodies work while keeping reliance upon the Blue Lodge for recognition and how the independent and sovereign Grand Lodges operate, co-exist, and recognize one another.

Freemasonry is not a system of control nor are we or did we try to establish some new age religion. Again, here is a display of ignorance.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Tho we may not agree on god and other things,

There are probably as many definitions of the "Creator" or "Creators" as there are human beings who believe in a Creator or Creators. However once one chooses the Biblical definition of a deity, one automatically accepts a barbaric, primitive, genocidal, human-nature hating definition of absolute goodness, and that affects one's behaviour. It is one thing entirely to have a harmless belief, such as that "God is a Lesbian" or whatever, but the two major memetic religious viruses in the world are based on the definition of the deity of the Koran and the Bible, and these are incredibly evil definitions of a deity, and of "goodness," by any modern humanist definition.

I have no idea who the Creator or Creators of the universe are; thus I have only my own human reason and human intuition to depend upon in discerning good and evil. The idea of a being who can read every thought of all 7 billion persons seems more like a computer program than a person to me; and indeed I suppose that is essentially "what I believe;" that consciousness is a "program" which experiences the virtual reality environment of the universe; this is almost certainly a conclusion of the "holographic universe" theory of physics; however I have no idea who programmed this programme, and since it is a "scientific question," neither does anyone else know the answer to this question or all scientists would be in accord on the issue.

As far as I am concerned the only gods and goddesses here whose existence I can be certain of are my 7 billion brothers and sisters. The psychiatric institutions are full of persons who claim that "God" speaks to them, as is the Internet full of persons who are suffering from the effects of religious schizophrenia and religious hypnosis and indoctrination, and those are the persons whom I am unable to communicate with perfectly, as they are too immersed in their own subjective private world where they consider the "truth" to be their own personal fantasies, definitions and projections of "God," or the "gods."

Unfortunately, apart from the Deists, and some of the Neopagans, in general, "God" is usually a human-nature hating bigot, simply because human beings have come to think that way, and since this is the "secret societies" forum and the main topic appears to be Freemasonry, the Masonic God seems to be a militant genocidal state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborater and an ideological Capitalist, paternalist and imperialist whose "holy sacraments" inlcude a great many rather silly and inane rituals, the dressing up in fancy dress costumes, the application of electric shocks to the genitals, (etc., etc., ) and the expenditure of charity funds on Masonic events involving prostitues, strippers and kidnapped sex slaves. This is simply an anthropomorphic projection of the Masonic cultists themselves, just as the god of the Koran and the Bible was an anthropomorphic projection of the God of the authors of those texts.

I have always stated that masonry in general starts with the royality of scums across Europe, and with the crusades that killed many many people.

Well the Masons on one hand generally tend to take the position that their cult is "not" descended from the medievial Knight's Templars and that it is a New Religious Movement of the 18th century, and on the other hand many of them are obsessed with the Knight's Templars; they dress up in Templar fancy dress, refer to themselves as the Templars, and there are numerous works by Masonic authors which focus on the history of Scotland, where the French Templars fled to, and which argue that they continued their legacy in secret in Scotland since the 14th century.

The Scottish Freemasons (and I refer to the Freemasons in Scotland, not to the Scottish Rite in the USA) generally all seem to believe that they are "Knight's Templars;" indeed their full title appears to be "The United, Religious and Military Orders of the Temple and the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta ( en.wikipedia.org... )." In America however, the Masons don't appear to universally adopt this identity, and the American Masons seem to be generally considered to be a bunch of circus clowns by the Masons of Scotland; never the less it is still a major Messianic religious cult and Capitalist gang in America.

I think it to be quite obvious why many Masons would rever a cult of militant, imperialistic, genocidal medieval loan sharks, since loan sharking and the military are very much a favoured profession among British Masons, though I am much less sure of the connection between Masonry and the US banks and the military and just how much influence they have in the US, however they are clearly a major Capitalist gang, just like the Italian Mafia or the Yakuza.

They have a lot of monkeys at their disposal, people that are willing to become a monkey for something in return. It is how it works, this organisation is just among others, I call it the control mechanism, control with religion, enslavement, making the human weak and obidiant to top it off with practice and knowlege of the occult.

Masonry is certainly a Messianic religous cult and a Capitalist gang, but with regards to practicing "occult" rituals, a common comment made about Masonic rituals is along the lines of them being boring, tedious repetitive nonsense; however personally I find this always to be the case in organised religions; one person may be able to watch a Hindu or Christian ritual or a Masonic ritual reniactment with tears in their eyes, full of emotion, whereas for those of us who appear to be immune to the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, the study of religious rituals is purely an academic study and it can seem incredibly inane (stupid, irrelevant) and ridiculous.

People like them invented Christianity, not that I have something against Jesus, I don't his teachings were good.
One starts to wonder if they did not add to the bible, aditional words to control even better, they put the books they saw fit and made the bible, who knows what else they added in there.

They saw this as an oportunity to control the population and they used it as such, to always control the little guy, to always tax him and use fear to intimidate by the sword. This was main stream religion.
I have to add that they are part of Roman descent, and the Roman empire, this was done by the Roman empire, to control people, I have to say you felt for it, Jesus has nothing to do with it, has no fault.
They killed him then they made a religion out of it

it's the same roman empire, same people, you think they give two cents about Jesus ? they don't.

The New Testament is certainly a 4th century fabrication contrived at the time of Constantine. It would be unsurprising if there were an actual person whom the texts are based upon, since first century Judea was full of anti-Roman Messianic religious fanatics, who were often fighting each other as well as the Romans.

Monty Python's "Life of Brian" is probably quite an accurate assessment of this kind of primitive Messianic religious fanaticism, however the "Quest for the Historical Jesus" which was an academic aquest begun in the 19th century has reached a dead end; frankly we can only speculate about the existence of an historical Jesus, and I think it to be rather useless to do so; other than to combat the disease of Christianity. Christians anyway do not revere the teachings of this alleged Judaic religious fanatic; they anyway reject his teachings and promote their own nonsense.

The Masonic "conspiracy theory" promoted by the pseudo-historian and editor of "Freemasonry Today" Michael Baigent, who is widely ridiculed in academic circles that within Freemasonry, is that the "Bloodline of Jesus" is similarly an ahistorical fiction which the British Israel movement is based upon. If the Freemasons were really the inheritors of the legacy and lineage of this first century religious fanatic, they would be of Semetic (i.e., Arabic) appearance and they would be promoting fundamentalist Judaic religious fanaticism; this is not the case; they would be more likely to drop depleted uranium on the Arabic population and turn them into debt slaves, labour slaves and sex slaves; their idea of "economic freedom" would probably be more along the lines of turning the Grand Mosque in Mecca into a brothel, a casino and a wine bar with a golf course (that might be an improvement actually).

Today it's not working, they wanted to bring a new religion based on Gaia, Budism and new age. Mix it and make one religion out of it, while today they are exposed, there is little before anything can be done, the implementation of one world order.

Many of the New Agers are at least honest enough to admit that their beliefs are syncretic (derived from many sources) and that they have just made up thier beliefs as they go along; that is how all religions begin anyway; it is one thing entirely to have an eclectic mixture of harmless New Age beliefs, but it is quite another to start a Capitalist religious cult and claim to be a religious Archon (Master, or authority figure); the only real "authorities" on religion are the persons who study religion and psychology of religion (the study of religious hypnosis and indoctrination) from an academic, historical and psychological perspective, and such knowledge is accessible to all persons and the World Wide Web is a vast research library on this religious studies. One cannot be an authority on God and the gods themsvles, for they do not lend themselves to empirical observation; thus all we are left with is the ramblings of religious fanatics, which are essentially anthropomorphic projections, and that is "Theology (the study of God) in all it's worthlessness; it is essentially the study of the ramblings of religious schizophrenics and it is epistemologically redundant.

You are right, the donation or charity is to show a nice face, it's at the surface, superficial to put up a nice face, while behind the scenes they use the money for prostitution or who knows what.
They can't stand it when you talk bad about them, on no our "stainless organisation" masonry the most respected blah blah blah.

Charity in the Capitalist world is just a multi-billion dollar business; it is just a scam. We have around 150,000 charities in the UK alone, many of them religious charities. There would simply be no need for "charity" in a Socialist world. If the world was organised differently, all persons would have access to food, shelter, healthcare, education, technology, security and personal freedom. Capitalism is just a means for a small minority of the world's population to accumulate vast wealth at the expense of the impoverished masses, and charity allows them to feel self righteous when they throw their scraps to the those whom they have impoverished.

Freemasonry is just one of many Capitalist gangs, albeit probably the most economically powerful in the Capitalist system; it is not matter of eradicating Freemasonry; their silly pantomime rituals and their fancy dress costumes are not the "problem;" the problem is Capitalism and the existence of Capitalist gangs, amny of whom operate like Messianic religious cults, and in fact many of them "are" messianic religious cults.

The objective of Anarchist revolution is ultimately the eradication of the three pillars of human evil, Capitalism, tyranny (government) and organised religion, and in the meantime relentless criticism against the vile economic, political and religious Archons of our world. To hell with them. A multitide of terrible and dreadful and wrathful eternal curses upon them.

Lux

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

_________________

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Yes, there is much literature on the subject area you mention, which I suppose is the modern Anglo-American form of Imperialism. But as I said, and I'll stand by it, referencing Coleman's "research" is not the best way to go. It's not a way to go at all as far as I'm concerned.
You may have heard of this historian yourself, but I'll include a link to his Wiki page and website for others on ATS to look into. I just have to include some real investigative work here to balance out the mere mention of Coleman and his crud:

en.wikipedia.org...

markcurtis.info...

I find Curtis' work excellent.

I do fully concede the point that perhaps "Coleman" is not the best person to point to regarding state terrorism, narco-terrorism and the analysis of the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism;" he is too much of a Christian religious fanatic and finds "Satanism" in everything from the Beatles to the feminist movement.

Although there are numerous Americans who are ex-military, ex-CIA, ex-DEA who have been outspoken about US narco-terrorism, and admitted their roles in this, unfortunately in the UK, Coleman is one of the very few ex-MI6 agents to turn apostate against his former masters and to reveal so much. I suppose it is a testimony to the courageousness of many Americans and the cowardice of the British state terrorist / narco-terrorist collaborators It may also have something to do with the fact that we have a draconian "official secrets act" which prevents ex intelligence agents from speaking about "anything" to do with their work, including acts of state terrorism, narco-terrorism etc..

Lux

Masonry is a world wide organization, but nowhere do we owe loyalty to the aristocracy and royalty of Europe. Nor is Freemasonry tied to the Crusades.

I hope you are right because just look at this.

Seems the images contradict you, nothing but pride. Crusades=christianity, but I don't see where Jesus says to form crusades and to kill people, that is religion for you. They look very proud to me, the order of the nights, templars, crusaders. It's tradition, right ?

Again, here it is. Nothing but pride and honor.

www.answerbag.com...
How many people did the Christians kill during the crusades?

Between one million and five million human beings died during the crusades. here is a link to more information on the topic:

It's also very rude to call us monkeys as if we are just simple creatures.

I was not refering to the masons but the ones that work for the masons, they are like monkeys, you give them bananas and they work for you.

There are probably as many definitions of the "Creator" or "Creators" as there are human beings who believe in a Creator or Creators. However once one chooses the Biblical definition of a deity, one automatically accepts a barbaric, primitive, genocidal, human-nature hating definition of absolute goodness, and that affects one's behaviour.

The bible is not a bad book, it holds good information, holds truth, some stories are rewriten in the bible, and are older in nature, yes the bible is not one book, it's made out to look like one book but it's not. Some people take it as the only thing valid and their research stops there, yes they are wrong. The bible is rich in information and it holds truth, some stories may be translated bad, or shorten, some may have suffered modifications.
I don't take the bible as a holy book, you are corect when you say the bible was used to control, it was used for main stream religion. The books that made the bible hold value into reading and finding out some of the things.

, human-nature hating definition of absolute goodness, and that affects one's behaviour.

I don;t know what you mean by that, I'm curios maybe you can better explain..
You may agree with the term sort of show respect, if you don't get respect destroy the person who does not ?
I don't agree with it, tolerance is a way to go, and yes I do beilive in a supreme higher power that I see as the creator, or creative force/ God, it's my personal expiriance that it is and it exists, it was there for me when I needed it, I know that for a fact and no one can convince me otherwise.

Originally posted by pepsi78

, human-nature hating definition of absolute goodness, and that affects one's behaviour.

I don;t know what you mean by that, I'm curios maybe you can better explain.

The Bible does not merely contain the texts of a religion, but in common with the Koran, it is also a system of primitive law and government.

I very much doubt that many intelligent, educated, modern persons believe that it is "good" to execute people for failing to observe the Sabbath (i.e., Friday Sunset to Saturday sunset; i.e., today), for blasphemy, for worshipping competing tribal deities, for adultery (in the polygamous culture of the Biblical era a male could buy as many female sex slaves as he wished and execute them if they were "unfaithful"), for homoseuxality and for a host of other "crimes." I refer you to the 613 laws of Moses on "A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)" www.jewfaq.org... however bear in mind that these are only the "laws," not the sentencing guidelines, many of which demanded execution; in fact even 9 of the first 10 commandments were executionable offences.

What Christians generally do is to "quote mine" and "cherry pick" their way through such laws, accepting only those which suit their own personal beliefs and bigotry. One could similarly "cherry pick" and "quote mine" ones' way through the text of Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the speeches of George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush and the speeches of Stalin for harmless and innocent passages and claim "Oh there is a great deal of truth and wisdom here;" however that is not how a rational, critical, educated person analyses a religion or philosophy.

You may agree with the term sort of show respect, if you don't get respect destroy the person who does not ?

Of course. Christianity and Islam are militant genocidal faiths with a long history to establish this; thus only a militant solution and response is appropriate. I would not dream of saying the same thing about Buddhists, much as I am not a Buddhist, for the Buddhists are pacifists and thus "tolerance" is appropriate. One cannot defeat a militant and genocidal enemy armed with weapons of mass destruction with a peace flag; if you can offer a "peaceful" means of exterminatng the Christians and Muslims, I would happy to hear your suggestions.

I don't agree with it, tolerance is a way to go,

Tolerating Muslims and Christians is much like tolerating Nazis; we are not speaking of a harmless belief, but militant and genocidal faiths and systems of government (theocratic monarchy) which have contributed greatly to economic and social hell on earth, and to the enslavement of humankind. These are simply savage, primitive and barbaric religions.

and yes I do beilive in a supreme higher power that I see as the creator, or creative force/ God, it's my personal expiriance that it is and it exists, it was there for me when I needed it, I know that for a fact and no one can convince me otherwise.

The "argument from personal experience" is probably one of the most powerful arguments for the existence of Jesus, Allah, Krishna, Hanunam, or whetever the name of your personal deity; the human mind is succeptible to this; however I won't go into this here. If you believe that the universe has a Creator who is also your own personal "familiar" or "god" or "deity," fine, I am merely addressing the Bronze Age tribal deity of the ancient Israelites, who was not originally referred to as "the" Creator, and was merely one of many ancient tribal deities, and to the anthropomorphic projections of the authors of the Koran and to the miltant, genocidal, imperialistic, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, loan sharking Capitalist Devil whom the Masons have as their deity (for who else would love them but a Capitalist Devil).

This has nothing to do with the philosophical question of whether the universe has a Creator (who may well militant, Lesbian Communist) or Creators, or whether you have your own personal "god," who watches over you; however as soon as you define that deity in the same way as the Biblical authors defined their deity then you accept a definition of absolute goodness which Richard Dawkins referred to as "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully," and that I cannot and will not be tolerant of.

Our beliefs and our definition of goodness affect our behaviour, and only a rather evil (or hypnotised and indoctrinated) human being would accept such a diabolical human-hating and human-nature-hating definition of goodness as is defined by the Koran and the Bible.

Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777

Freemasonry is neither a cult nor are we a religious movement.

I was obsessed with the Crusades and the ages around that time long before I joined. As a Masonic Knights Templar I am curious about the knighthood we are commemorating. Plus their history is very interesting.

The United, Religious and Military Orders of the Temple and the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta

Scotland is not the only one who uses that name. Do more research.

If we are "messianic" then who is our Messiah?

The government is not the solution to all problems nor does choice and individual freedom exist in Socialism.

reply to post by pepsi78

Those are just costumes used. The various Masonic Templar Orders are sovereign unto themselves and we don't take oaths to royalty.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Yes, god the creator of the universe, it is the supreme, this is my god, I also know of the mother godess, she is real and I have encountered her before. As for god, I can say the same thing. I;m not making things up, they are real, it's no fairy tale. If you chose not to beilive that is your option alone.


I don't know how you define goodness, to me it's simple what it means, without complicating it or twisting it around. I feel along the way people want to distort things, the notion of bad and good, twist it, and then say how do you know this is normal, what do you define normal, or you hear them...you know good or bad does not exist, and so on, it's what they say.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

Those are just costumes used. The various Masonic Templar Orders are sovereign unto themselves and we don't take oaths to royalty.

You honor the crusades, it's really the same thing, the pictures speak for their self.
I can see proud men in those pictures wearing crusader gear.

The various Masonic Templar Orders are sovereign unto themselves

Well if you got a masonic lodge or order for : Templar Orders, then it figures.
You said it your self. " Masonic Templar Orders"

reply to post by pepsi78

We commemorate the values of the Templars.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78

 

We commemorate the values of the Templars.

Oh yes, of course. Loan sharking. Genocide. Holy wars. War against Islam, Imperialism, the slaughter of civillians etc. Of course the Muslims in those days did not know how to enrich uranium; the modern Muslims are much more likley to retaliate for the several thousand tons of depleted uranium dropped on Iraq and the usual torture, murder, mayhem and economic exploitation which accompanies the US state terrorist, narco-terrorist military; not that the Muslims are any better of course.





And there there are those strange homo-erotic BDSM rituals, which the Templars were also accused of..



The US is full of gay saunas and BDSM clubs where you could get beaten and humiliated at a much cheaper price than in Masonry.

Lucifer
" I promise to undercut the initiation fees for beatings, humilations and BDSM style rituals for Masonic cultists; I will beat any price on salvation or double your money back in the afterlife plus 72 virgins. Low. low prices on eternal salvation."

Originally posted by Lucifer777
I will beat any price on salvation or double your money back in the afterlife plus 72 virgins.

In a previous post you were offering double the amount of virgins. Why are you gettting chincy now?

I think 95% of the stuff you write here is BS but I've always lacked trust in the intelligence agencies and in our government because I feel that they're attempting to spread democracy in a criminal manner. It just so happens that they attempt to spread it where they can gain a strategic benefit or some other benefit. It's human nature to do that. This reminds me of when Bush and congress passed legislation that gave authorization to intelligence agencies to fund subversion and unrest in Iran. This was the real deal and it seems to me that if you want to help a country the truth is good enough. Trying to cause unrest or other things, even though other countries might do that in the US, is just wrong. Because others do it doesn't make it right. I would hope that the success inherent in democracy would be all that it needs to spread. No need to be secret about it. No need to secretly funnel money to an anti-iran newspaper in iran or something else like that. It's disgusting. The reason it's ugly is because it's trying to be hidden from view. I turn to the bible for an example. God didn't help us by secretly giving us knowledge. Jesus didn't secretly show people the truth or hide from roman police. The truth will set you free. There's no need to be secretive about it. This all hints at something more evil underneath.

And then I think about those who have no religion who work in intelligence or for a front company. They would be willing to do things a god fearing or respectable person would never do. All for the explicit purpose of destabilizing the iranian leadership, if it wasn't already! What will they do that we'll never know about? And how will iran respond to what we do?

I don't like iran either. But when things become too secret they're no longer accountable.

These are some of the thoughts that streamed through my head when I read the news about bush and congress giving this funding to intelligence agencies. It was some years ago.

Because of these things and others over the past 10 years, I've never trusted my government.

Tolerating Muslims and Christians is much like tolerating Nazis; we are not speaking of a harmless belief, but militant and genocidal faiths and systems of government (theocratic monarchy) which have contributed greatly to economic and social hell on earth, and to the enslavement of humankind. These are simply savage, primitive and barbaric religions.

You make some very rash and dangerous statements........if i were you id be careful about condoning the eradication of people of any religion..........i suppose that it wouldnt make you any better than those darn "Templars" during the crusades hmm? You contradict yourself..........

Sorry OP

You do realize that you can make all the lengthy posts your heart desires..............bs. is still bs......

Theres nothing in any of this that is even remotely close.........I love how people can site opinion as fact....

I guess hate will allow you to swallow any pill, no matter how large or bitter........

But by all means, keep making 3 page posts lol..............takes some people longer to vomit then others......

reply to post by Lucifer777


Your OP mentions genocide. I can tell you something about genocide. I`ll tell you a genuine secret. If you want to predict who is going to go on the next spree of genocide or mass slaughter of human lives just look who hates the Freemasons.

Remember when Hitler shut down all masonic lodges?

Remember when Stalin suppressed freemasonry?

These two alone have the blood of hundreds of millions on their hands.

Look at which groups hate Freemasons today and you can predict which groups will be responsible for the next genocide.

Why is this?

Its because genocide is fueled by hate. And hate hates absolutely and cant stand people who go around with ideals of charity, benevolence. friendship, brotherhood.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Their duty to protect pilgrims along the route to the Holy Land. They were not loan sharks, that's skewing and revising history for your personal agenda. They created basically the modern day checking system.

I'm not going to watch some "YouTube sensation" as proof about the Templars. Nor do I want to waste my bandwidth, as I'm on my iTouch.

And there there are those strange homo-erotic BDSM rituals, which the Templars were also accused of.

There was no BDSM accusations. There were charges of homosexual acts such as kissing, but in many opinions these charges were trumped up by the French King in order to avoid paying a debt he owed them. King Phillip thought himself above the Papacy and hated that the Pope nor his band of Templars didn't report to him. He had a Pope killed off, forced the Popes to be located in Avignon, and ensured the next Pope would be in his pocket. Phillip even attempted to embarrass Grand Master, Jacques DeMolay, but instead the GM recanted his confessions that were given during torture and professed the innocence of the Order. That very evening the King, without authority from the Pope, burned DeMolay alive.  While burning alive, DeMolay cursed the French Crown and the Papacy, and invited them to join him within he year (which they did).

From what I've read DeMolay lived for several minutes and from researching techniques of the time, the fire would not be at the base of the stake. Instead the fire would be placed in a circle around the stake to create an oven effect where the body slowly cooks and burns. Starting at the feet and moving on up the victim burns, and can take as long 15 minutes to die.

A fire at the base of the stake causes the victim to swallow the flame within a minute or so. The lungs and throat are burned; the throat closes and the lungs fill with fluid. In the end, the victim suffocates long before he is severely burned. Death occurs very rapidly versus the one I spoke about earlier.

reply to post by jonnywhite

I work in intelligence and I have religion. There many devout men and women of faith who work with me.

There's no need to be secretive about it.

Proverbs talks about keeping secrets.