Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

reply to post by P3ACE0WAR


Yeah.. and this is the nail in the coffin:

Al-Qassam - Press Conference about the aggression on Gaza 9-4-2011

Military Communiqué

Press Conference about the aggression on Gaza

Our Palestinian people... Our Arab and Islamic Nations...

Zionist entity continue its war crimes against Palestinian civilians, during the month of March and April, the current escalation of aggression increased seriously, targeting civilians and resistance men, taking advantage of international silence.

In March, Zionist entity committed a massacre against the children of Al Hilu Family, east of Ash-Shijaia neighborhood, then committed the crime of assassinating Al Qassam leaders Ismail and Abdullah Lubbad and Mohamed Ad-Daya, the Zionist entity also targeted ambulance crews, press, mosques.

The Zionist entity assassinated a mother and daughter from Qideh family - She was going to married soon- from the east of Khanyounis city.

Al-Qassam Brigades did not stand idly, and we have responded to this barbaric aggression that led to the death of nearly fifty Palestinian civilians since the beginning of this year, especially in recent weeks, the majority of the deaths are innocents.

Al-Qassam Brigades' operations during the last Forty-Eight hours:

First: Targeting a bus was traveling between the Zionist military sites on the strip border, east of Gaza City, at around three o'clock on Thursday, 07.04.2011, ​​near the so-called "Kfar Saad," the bus was passing in the way of tanks and artillery.

Second: Al-Qassam Brigades within forty-eight hours pounded the Zionist military sites adjacent to the Gaza Strip with 68 rockets and mortars (28 rockets and 40 mortar shells).

Al-Qassam Brigades emphasize the following:

First: The Zionist enemy is responsible for these crimes and escalation in the Gaza Strip, the Zionist arrogance and aggression will not deter us from doing our duty to respond to aggression.

Second: There is no opportunity to talk about calm between us and the occupation at a time Zionist entity bombs our people and committing massacres, but the blood of our people will not be wasted.

Third: We will continue our revolution and our jihad against the occupiers, rand our entire nation and the free world with us until liberating Palestine.

Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades

Information Office

April 9th, 2011

It was intentional... The bus was targeted.

It goes along with the Arabic press release that stated they viewed the school bus as a military target.

reply to post by nenothtu

What part of "Dammit! They hit a schoolbus" would not garner support for Israel to get more aggressive?

The part where Israel also "accidentally" hits schools and even UN depots all the time..

reply to post by Xcathdra

First: Targeting a bus was traveling between the Zionist military sites on the strip border, east of Gaza City, at around three o'clock on Thursday, 07.04.2011, ​​near the so-called "Kfar Saad," the bus was passing in the way of tanks and artillery.

Reads odd..
Did they know it was a school bus?
Were they targeting it of the "tanks and artillery?
What weapon did they use?

reply to post by backinblack


/Blinks at BackinBlack

It comes from their own website does it not?

Al-Qassam Brigades' operations during the last Forty-Eight hours:

First: Targeting a bus was traveling between the Zionist military sites on the strip border, east of Gaza City, at around three o'clock on Thursday, 07.04.2011, ​​near the so-called "Kfar Saad," the bus was passing in the way of tanks and artillery.

It says bus, its says targeted a bus.... It even tells you how it was travelling.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Does it mention laser guided anti tank missile?

If not then how exactly did the target it ??

Small point but they say 'targeting" but you say "targeted"..

It's a confusing statement none the less..

reply to post by backinblack


Wow.. even with it coming from the horses mouth, you still want to be in denial. Are you really THAT shocked that Hamas would target a school bus?

Open your eyes man.. They are at fault, they admit it, and there are news sources supporting Hamas's claim.

I am shocked that you would still try to dimiss what occured, and even more surpsried that you would use the semantics game to do it.

Targeted - targeting...

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu

 

An RPG at 500 meters against a moving bus at road speed wouldn't likely fare very well unless it had a hell of a gunner.

True but also depends on your line of sight..
If the bus is traveling straight it's not that hard a target..

At 500 meters with an RPG against a fast moving target, there's more to it than just getting the proper "lead" on the target. Vagaries in the rocket motor itself and the cross-winds blowing against the fins also have to be taken into account, making it a bit more difficult that a straight forward rifle shot. Oddly, perhaps, with a rifle you have to lead to the front, and rely on the cross winds to blow the bullet backwards into the target if the wind is significant enough (calculating for "windage"), but with a finned projectile, whether a rocket or a primitive arrow, you aim the lead BEHIND the target. The reason for that is that the wind, blowing the fins at the back of the projectile, tend to angle the flight path to the foreward by kicking the tail to the "rear" of the line of target motion. Also, winds are more significant because the fins are quite a bit bigger than a bullet.

So it's not as straightforward a shot to hit a laterally moving target with an RPG as one would think at first.

A laser guided missile is not that easy either..

Not, but the onboard guidance does most of the calculation so the operator only has to concentrate on keeping the laser dot on the target, which IS easier.

Even the manufacturer only claims an accuracy of 5 meters and you can bet that's in experienced hands and against a stationary target..

We also have to take into account that it's 5m @ what range? How does a closer or further ranging impact the accuracy figures quoted? A closer range may not allow for as much reaction time against a moving target, and a farther one may allow for too much course deviation. There are too many unknown variables at this point to take that as a hard and fast accuracy.

Tough call huh?

Yup. Still too many unknowns.

Hence I have my doubts..

As well one might expect.

But there is NO doubting that the Anti Tank weapon theory suits Israel's agenda far better than a random shell..

I'm still not quite seeing that considering the target, but in a way I suppose you're right - have to erase the evil new weapons in the escalation, is that about it?

reply to post by Xcathdra


The Arabic doesn't say the bus was targeted intentionally, the Arabic translation skews the meaning. The actual meanings states that the target was the road where tanks fire upon Gaza, the bus was traveling in that same road which connects military sites, which was hit.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by backinblack

 

If we are going to stick with the facts:

There were two panels, not one, that were lifted upwards.



If you look here you can see most of the weapons energy was expended in the engine compartment.



There still could have been enough pressure to blow the panels out and then blow out the glass.

If that's the fly-wheel or a belt pulley at the bottom of the engine showing in that picture, the hit was high on the engine. Also, the glass could have been shattered from impact vibrations rather than the blast, and most of the blast absorbed by the engine and deflection rather than going into the passenger compartment. It also looks like a scorched Earth field to the right of the bus in that photo. Must've been a hell of a fire ball attached.

reply to post by nenothtu

It also looks like a scorched Earth field to the right of the bus in that photo. Must've been a hell of a fire ball attached.

Zoom in..That does not look like newly burnt shrub..
Also the luggage door on the right is also open but looks in perfect shape..
They may have opened those two if there was still any fire in the engine..

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by backinblack

 

I used an arabic to english translation program. Does anyone have access to the Offical Hamas website?

edit on 14-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

It's here, and oddly that's in English...

No, I'M NOT going to start spinning my wheels speculating on THAT!

Edit to add: Here are their official statements in English from their site. I didn't see any specific to this incident at all.

So really.. People find it so hard to beleive Hamas would target a school bus, that they will go to any lenghts, no matter how ridiculous they look, to try to find another reason / method / explanation for what occured, even after Hamas claimed responsibility, saying the School bus was targeted, and the use of a missile on that school bus.


Even with facts present, supporters of Hamas still dont beleive it.


There is nothing left to argue... All the info is present.

The School Bus was hit, and Hamas was behind it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
So really.. People find it so hard to beleive Hamas would target a school bus, that they will go to any lenghts, no matter how ridiculous they look, to try to find another reason / method / explanation for what occured, even after Hamas claimed responsibility, saying the School bus was targeted, and the use of a missile on that school bus.
Even with facts present, supporters of Hamas still dont beleive it.
There is nothing left to argue... All the info is present.
The School Bus was hit, and Hamas was behind it.

Repeat a lie often enough and some fools may believe it..

You just had a poster who knows arabic clearly state the translation was wrong..
You have lost your main proof that Hamas admitted to using a laser guided missile or that they actually targeted the bus..

But I guess you will keep up the propaganda until someone believes your twisted, bias view..

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
I don't know what grad is (?).

BM-21 Russian multiple rocket launcher system, usually mounted in the back of a truck for mobility. It's pretty awesome to watch the rockets whooshing out - unless you're on the wrong end of them, that is. 122mm rockets. "Grad" menas "hail" in Russian, giving you an idea of the impact zone. Evidently Hamas has had them in Gaza since 2006.

They've evidently been around a while - the Soviets used them in Afghanistan.

Some basic info on the Grad.

reply to post by backinblack


So really.. People find it so hard to beleive Hamas would target a school bus, that they will go to any lenghts, no matter how ridiculous they look, to try to find another reason / method / explanation for what occured, even after Hamas claimed responsibility, saying the School bus was targeted, and the use of a missile on that school bus.


Even with facts present, supporters of Hamas still dont beleive it.


There is nothing left to argue... All the info is present.

The School Bus was hit, and Hamas was behind it.

Yeah.. and this is the nail in the coffin:

Al-Qassam - Press Conference about the aggression on Gaza 9-4-2011

Military Communiqué

Press Conference about the aggression on Gaza

Our Palestinian people... Our Arab and Islamic Nations...

Zionist entity continue its war crimes against Palestinian civilians, during the month of March and April, the current escalation of aggression increased seriously, targeting civilians and resistance men, taking advantage of international silence.

In March, Zionist entity committed a massacre against the children of Al Hilu Family, east of Ash-Shijaia neighborhood, then committed the crime of assassinating Al Qassam leaders Ismail and Abdullah Lubbad and Mohamed Ad-Daya, the Zionist entity also targeted ambulance crews, press, mosques.

The Zionist entity assassinated a mother and daughter from Qideh family - She was going to married soon- from the east of Khanyounis city.

Al-Qassam Brigades did not stand idly, and we have responded to this barbaric aggression that led to the death of nearly fifty Palestinian civilians since the beginning of this year, especially in recent weeks, the majority of the deaths are innocents.

Al-Qassam Brigades' operations during the last Forty-Eight hours:

First: Targeting a bus was traveling between the Zionist military sites on the strip border, east of Gaza City, at around three o'clock on Thursday, 07.04.2011, ​​near the so-called "Kfar Saad," the bus was passing in the way of tanks and artillery.

Second: Al-Qassam Brigades within forty-eight hours pounded the Zionist military sites adjacent to the Gaza Strip with 68 rockets and mortars (28 rockets and 40 mortar shells).

Al-Qassam Brigades emphasize the following:

First: The Zionist enemy is responsible for these crimes and escalation in the Gaza Strip, the Zionist arrogance and aggression will not deter us from doing our duty to respond to aggression.

Second: There is no opportunity to talk about calm between us and the occupation at a time Zionist entity bombs our people and committing massacres, but the blood of our people will not be wasted.

Third: We will continue our revolution and our jihad against the occupiers, rand our entire nation and the free world with us until liberating Palestine.

Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades

Information Office

April 9th, 2011

It was intentional... The bus was targeted.

It goes along with the Arabic press release that stated they viewed the school bus as a military target.

Supporting Sources
Aljazeera
Lebanon Daily Star
Times of India
Turkey Daily News
Focus.net
Now Lebanon News
Palestinian Times

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

First: Targeting a bus was traveling between the Zionist military sites on the strip border, east of Gaza City, at around three o'clock on Thursday, 07.04.2011, ​​near the so-called "Kfar Saad," the bus was passing in the way of tanks and artillery.

Reads odd..
Did they know it was a school bus?
Were they targeting it of the "tanks and artillery?
What weapon did they use?

It says specifically that they targeted the bus, rather than tanks or artillery. I took "in the way of" to mean "along the route used by". It doesn't say they knew it was a school bus, but that's immaterial to me. If it wasn't painted green and bristling with gun barrels, it wasn't a legitimate military target.

It does seem odd that they didn't mention the weapon used. If they wanted to crow about testing out a new device, seems like that would have been the place for it.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Not even Al-Jazeera says it was intentional, because Al-Jazeera is Arabic based and they have actual Arabic speaking people who can do the translation.

"said it had shot two missiles early in the day, one of which had hit the school bus.

No intention, nor does it indicate it was an anti-Tank missiles.

If you see the press releases, non talks about anti-Tank missiles, the Qassam website clearly says after every attack what weapon was used, you can go through their recent press release and you will clearly see no mention of anti-Tank missile.

The whole anti-Tank missile thing was orchestrated by Israeli press, and Israel governmental agencies, from IDF, to foreign affairs office.

reply to post by nenothtu

It says specifically that they targeted the bus, rather than tanks or artillery. I took "in the way of" to mean "along the route used by". It doesn't say they knew it was a school bus, but that's immaterial to me. If it wasn't painted green and bristling with gun barrels, it wasn't a legitimate military target.

It does seem odd that they didn't mention the weapon used. If they wanted to crow about testing out a new device, seems like that would have been the place for it.

Yeah but did you see the other members post that knows Arabic?
According to them the bus was not targeted..

Could be that they fired mortars or whatever at the tanks and artillery but accidentally hit the bus..
I don't believe it was a guided missile so that theory fits..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Does it mention laser guided anti tank missile?

If not then how exactly did the target it ??

Small point but they say 'targeting" but you say "targeted"..

It's a confusing statement none the less..

Just a matter of tense, "Targeting" being the present tense for "aimed specifically at", and "targeted" being past tense for the same. Th targeting system, whether a laser or iron sights or an RPG 'scope isn't specified, but the action sure is.

reply to post by nenothtu


The translation word by word, forgetting the grammar differences between English and Arabic skews the meaning.

Do you know any other language other than Arabic which I might be able to give you an example of? I also am familiar with Urdu, Persian and Dari. I can give one for Urdu speaking people.

When you translate word by word "who are you" from Urdu to English, it becomes something like this, "you who are". See the grammar issue which I talk of? When you translate the Arabic version of the statement it has a different meaning, it means the target was simply that area where the bus was traveling, not the bus. Word for word translation has cause the word bus to come after target which makes many believe the target was the bus.