Rebuilding the Temple

GFS 4731:

Don't forget the so-called promises to Abraham (even if they are fake prophecies written in late Hebrew c. 480 BC to "explain" the current or wishful political situation during the Persian Period in Palestine) may JUST AS EASILY refer to ARABS (since according to their own legends in the Bible, Abram/Abraham is the father of both Israelites (via Yitzaak, or Isaac) AND Ishmael (the father of all Arabs).

So anyone who thinks the so-called Promises of YHWH or El Elyon or El Shaddai (which ever god happens to be listed in the text) to Abraham ("and his Seed") applies only to Israelites are missing the point.

Ishamael also had "12 sons" (Behold I shall make your seed AS THE CONSTELLATIONS OF HEAVEN, i.e. 12).

Something to think about anyway.

From my understanding of the scriptures the rapture will happen, the anti-Christ will emerge and Israel will sign a peace treaty. The anti-Christ will sit on the throne in the new temple and declare himself God.

At the end of three years, the peace treaty will be broken and all hell will break loose.

Basically, what I get from scripture is that there will never be real peace between Israel and the Arabs. Only a false peace brokered by a false prophet. He will promise peace and security for Israel, but will turn on them.

I wonder if Israel will sign some kind of deal to dismantle their nukes in return for the EU's protection? I see the rising EU as being what the bible calls the revived Roman Empire. I can't see that happening, but if you think about it, the Arabs might be willing to make peace if Israel conceded those weapons.

In my personal believe, the temple is used as a metaphor of nation rebuilding but not an actual activity, see the Mosque as what it is an offense in the eyes of the Israelis.

But the way this world is going I will not be surprised if a war brake out just to prove that the bible is right, and I will say unto you that God or Jesus will have nothing to do with it. It will be man made like everything made in this world.

Man kind has been the gods the Jesuses and the devils of this world and men alone will destroy this world.

And this is just a thought.

Ok Marg! It's on now - you and me, mano awomano..

You and I obviously have different beliefs and that's ok with me. I still think you rock.

As a Christian I'm a firm believer in prophecy. As you tick off the prophecies that have been fulfilled in our lifetime, such as the creation of the state of Israel as foretold, it's becoming more and more clear to me that the end is not as far off as some might hope/think. And just because I'm a christian, it doesn't mean I'm breathlessly praying for Armageddon, as some like to suggest. Frankly, I don't know any Christians that fall into that category. Maybe those freaks belong to the Pat Robertson-John ASScroft Club of lunatics.

In this post 9-11 age and with world oil reserves peaking, I can see it all coming together. Since God sez we have freewill, I can only hope we human beings choose the wisest of course in pursuing peace - for everyone's benefit. We will all reap the whirlwind if an attack befalls the Dome of the Rock. There will be no going back.

what about the two witnesses?? they are linked to the temple in revelations.

the question is ..is the temple the modern day church or a physical building?? if it is a physical building and it gets built in our life then that is a major sign of the end times. No temple no witnesses. No witnesses no people for beast to kill. it is when beast kills the witnesses that he is first mentioned in revelations isnt it??
witnesses plauge the earth because they demand repentance and those who dont suffer by the hands of the witnesses. the whole world hates them, beast kills them...he is world hero. thats the way i read it, maybe im wrong about the whole thing, either way you need a temple in israel..and if it gets built then the time is getting seriously short!

EastCoastKid,

I know we have different oppinions in religion but that is the beauty of been individuals, don't worry I never bash anybodies beliefs, I just post my oppinions. I like you better in politics.

There's enough rage here to destroy a temple... :-p

....ok inappropriate response....

Originally posted by marg6043
EastCoastKid,

I know we have different oppinions in religion

but that is the beauty of been individuals, don't worry I never bash anybodies beliefs, I just post my oppinions.

I like you better in politics.

I hearya! I always enjoy your input.

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
what about the two witnesses?? they are linked to the temple in revelations.

There's so much I didn't mention. Never enuff time. I was just giving a quick example of one prophecy that has come to fruition.

the question is ..is the temple the modern day church or a physical building??

I personally believe it is the third temple (a physical structure). That's where my confusion has always come from - how in the world is that gonna happen with the Dome of the Rock sitting there?! One thing I thought of is what if a natural or manmade earthquake brought it down? That would be a possibility.

I can't remember who mentioned it, but I also believe the Ark of the Covenant lies beneath the temple mount. I think that's the main reason the Arabs are so touchy about even considering letting Israel down there to dig.

TextI can't remember who mentioned it, but I also believe the Ark of the Covenant lies beneath the temple mount. I think that's the main reason the Arabs are so touchy about even considering letting Israel down there to dig.

O perhaps under the temple mount is more of the forgotten ancients writings that will change the beliefs of Christianity from what it has been sold to us through centuries.

O perhaps Jesus human body is buried there with his wife.

It could be a lot of speculation and to tell you the true I will like to find out myself.

Where is Indiana Jones when you need him?!

Lockheed:

Your history is whacked.

Persia conquored Babylon, not the other way round in 539BC. Get your data straight.

The "Messiah" (Grek "Christ") Cyrus the Persian (Isaiah 45:1) was the one thought to have been "annointed" by YHWH (even though a filfthy rotten dog gentile "goy" i.e. a non-Jewish Messiah! ) to send the Judaean emigreess back to Palestine, even acording to Hebrew prophetic "scriptures".

Also: of the 24 priestly southern Judaean Yahwistic families that were deported into Babylon (who could read/write/foster rebellion and thus were a threat to Babylonian occupation, by possibly producing a counter Revolution) along with metal workers, only 4 (FOUR) ever came back.

So the levites back in Palestine had to recruit GENTILES to fill in their 24 priestly family numbers, who eventually married into the Levitical priestly lines.

The few levietical families who did manage to crawl back home from Babylon were the Yahwistic "hard liners" who wouldn't adapt to the Babylonian ways (e.g. switching to worshipping Marduk the main Babylonian clan god) and would rather fight or die than switch.

These are the same people (and their ultra reactionary hardline Yahwistic descendants) who produced the final edited forms of the Old Testament that you believe to be holy scripture (later again heavilly re-written under Ezra around 400 BC).

You also need to learn there are two main groups of "Jews" in the world today since the 9th century AD ("Ashkenazim" and "Sephardim" as well as others such as Fallashim etc., all from different blood groups).

It is impossible therefore to see "Modern Jews" as a distinct "race"
any more given their genetic conglomeration ranges.

Modern day Israel was founded by "secular" descendants of non Semitic converts to Judaiesm known as Ashkenazi (8th-9th century AD converts from Kiev in Russia, in an area known as Khazaria, look it up). The Sefardi (mixed semitic descendants of the ancient Judaeans) began to come back to Eretz Israel in the 1950s-1990s (but still going on today). Ashkenazi converts were non semitic gentiles who converted to Judaism (being mixed Turko Ukranians by blood) and comprise 90% of the "Jews" in the world today, although they number only 65% in Israel (since the mixed race Semitic Sefardi "minority" mainly live in Israel and are less scattered all over the world than the Ashkenazim).

The Modern Day Israeli is NOT the same group as the ancient "Israelites", and only a handful are in anyway related to the ancient lineages by blood.

The Palestinians actually are more closely related to the ancient Tribes if you want to go by genetics...

But don't confuse the issue with your loose playing with historical facts....

if you read Zecharia about Zerrubable and Joshua , they are named while the angel is describing the TWO OLIVE TREES and LAMP STANDS which are also named in Rev as the Two Witnesses.So there is a connection there. like i said one of the first major things to happen is the testimony of the two witnesses. its funny that people spend buckets of time on the beast but not much on the witnesses, unless the person interested is a Christian and even then a limited interest.

this is an interesting point that I have just thought of. whenever rev is mentioned its always mostly about the beast, etc 666 etc. but the two witnesses have power for just as long a time period before the beast. they must cause MAJOR trouble on earth for everyone, because when they die the whole world parties. the only comparision could be after the second wordl war when the west partied but even then its a weak comparision seeing as its the whole world. I think the reason is that the witnesses put it straight and to the point, if you repent you will be saved and not hurt, if you dont you will be struck with plauges and plauges over and over like Egypt was. God gets so serious he makes his WRATH VISIBLE on earth. He makes the choice between good and evil a VISIBLE thing with major consequences. The world rejects him and the witnesses and this leads to the world embracing the beast. If this didnt happen would ANYONE care about the beast?? He'd just be another nutfruitcakespecial. But all these things will be played out in front of everyone...when you cant deny or explain it away, and when your own SOUL is on the line.

LOL! Now that I re-read my history I realize that maybe I shouldn't type posts that should at least contain a hint of accuracy while at work. Thanks for the help Amadeus. I realize I'm pretty ignorant on the issue now. Got most of that stuff off this site here: www.konig.org... but couldn't even quote it correctly. Is there a good book you could reccomend on the subject? (Besides the bible of course)



[edit on 7/28/2004 by lockheed]

Wether religeous or not our planet is still in great danger from many different sources. We have to worry about the polar shifts, commets/asteroids, nuclear wars, aliens, the suns field that has grown 1000% from 1946-1996 and many more space and on our own earth problems. So just beucase religeon might be iffy doesnt mean that we are safe

I do however belive that a peace treaty will be signed in 2005 and that the temple will be rebuilt

[edit on 06/29/2001 by SirKillallott]

[edit on 06/29/2001 by SirKillallott]

It's all up to us. I believe we should always work towards peace with regard to Israel and the Palestinians; however, I do not believe there will ever be a true and lasting peace. Only a false peace offered by the Anti-Christ.

I also believe he will blame the disappearance of the church (rapture) on an alien invasion. That's why I believe the government started the whole alien conspiracy with the supposed crash at Area 51. I don't doubt people when they say they've seen a UFO. I just believe it's advanced advanced military aircraft they've seen.

EastCoastKid . . . Have you concidered that the ufo's that people see today are the same ufo's seen in the bible, the Watchers perhaps?


Didn't God promise Abraham the land to his first born, wich would be Ishamael?!#%?? . . .Sarah was such a bitch . . .

Hi Lockheed:

Here are two books you could start with, but there are a lot more. These two are more for the lay reader, and not so dry and technical to a newcomer to the material.

Try getting a copy of a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts" by Neil Asher Silberman (Author), Israel Finkelstein (Paperback).

It was written by Ashkenazi Jewish archaelogists who have spent several decades examining the most recent archaelogical findings in Israel and Occupied Palestine, and have come to the conclusions that most of the "history" of Israel as outlined in the "bible" especially about the Kings was midrashic (i.e. legendary and completely re-written not earlier than 420 BC, long after the time of the events it purports to relate): in other words despite all the half-truths and rhetoric out of the mouths of fundamentalist Christians and "orthodox" (whatever that means) "Jews" today, the Bible is NOT a trustworthy source of history, but midrashic legend carefully designed to prove that the Judaeans were the "chosen people" of their post Exilic (after 480 BC) clan god YHWH.

Also a good read for the layman would be Richard Elliot Friedmann's book WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? (which to Mr Friedmann means only what Christians would call the "Old Testament" since he's Jewish) which outlines the poltical influences that caused the "bible" to be written, edited, re-edited and and finally re-edited (in different periods) in the ways the texts have come down to us.

Most people find that they have to read the book twice or even three times over to fully understand the gist of all the linguistic arguments presented by Mr Freidmann (who is basically summarizing the work of more than 200 years of intensive sutdy of the Old Testament texts) , since most non-theologians have absolutely no prior familiarity with the Graf-Wellhausen hypothesis (Sources of the Torah for example called J E P and D + a Redactor during the time of Ezra in 420 BC) and believe that somehow men and poltics played no role in shaping the contents of the "bible"

Moreover most of the information contained in the book is highly distilled and may come as a shock to "bible believing "Christians and Jews who believe the texts are "the word of God" (i.e. YHWH the god of Israel) , the vast majority of whom cannot even read Hebrew or Aramaic or even LXX Greek with any degree of fluency

(American Jews for example can barely read their Bar Mitzvah haf-tarah portion without stumbling, unfortunately----and fundamentalist Christians generarlly don't like their parishoners reading (let alone studying!) copies of older, more original texts families because it is clear that there are thousands of glaring differences between all the manuscript families, and not just one copy of the Bible-- e.g. of the Old Testament (i.e. all the scribal differences in "scripture" between the Masoretic Text, the Seputaginta LXX, the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Pe#ta, the Targums and the Dead Sea Scrolls copies, etc. all of which which display a curious freedom and fluency with "holy writ" etc.)

Does this help any?

Ya, I'll check those out.

I'm also interested in the Nag Hammadi Library and The Other Bible which contain Gnostic texts that were not included in the New Testament.

Also there is a new translation being worked on that is translating the "Old Testament" literally. Already the book of Genesis is done and it is very intriguing. It reads like Hebrew even though it dosen't make the best sense in English. But I forgot the name of it.

Thanx tho.

Hi Lockheed:

Which version of Genesis (Bere#h) is your new-literal translation going to use?

l. Masoretic text (dating from AD 780 in Leningrad)
2. The Hebrew Vorlage of the LXX found among the DSS (dated c. 300 BC)
3. The Samaritan Pentateuch version of Genesis (dated c. 460 BC)
4. The Aramaic Targum of Genesis (probably around 200AD but draws on older texts from around 150 BC)
5. The Syriac Pe#ta of Genesis (probably around 400 AD but also drawing upon other text families)

All these texts are surprisingly different from each other, and especially from the socalled received text (Masoretic or MT) which Jews and Protestants use today. Catholics use the Vulgate in English based on the Greek LXX made in Alexandria Egupt around BC 250

Just curious is all...