The U.S. Education Bubble is Currently Bursting- Paypal co'founder

Not everyone should go to university - some folks would be much better off going to a trade school or a technical college. I look at skilled craftsmen who are good with woodwork or metal, and when I see them make a nice piece of furniture, a cabinet, or maybe weld up something I can look at the results and think they are a real work of art.

Originally posted by LS650
Not everyone should go to university - some folks would be much better off going to a trade school or a technical college. I look at skilled craftsmen who are good with woodwork or metal, and when I see them make a nice piece of furniture, a cabinet, or maybe weld up something I can look at the results and think they are a real work of art.

Couldn't agree with you more...

Let’s face it not all people are cut out for an education at the college level – there are plenty of skilled trades in America that are in need of competent individuals to ply them.

There is somehow a stigma associated with working with one’s hands in America that forces kids to choose college to their own and society’s determent. Used to be that having a college degree, even at the bachelors level was a sort of vetting process though which middle and entry level management could be screened and therefore the pay level of graduates was commensurate with someone who was of professional level drive/skill.

Now HR people and businesses put no stock in a degree as an indicator of intellect and or drive and subsequently a degree is worth very little when it comes to employment.

Interestingly enough most of the new breed of self made wealthy men and women are entrepreneurs in the trades – plumbers, electricians etc. How hard is it to get someone to do that work for you now days? They can virtually pick and choose their contracts according to my family member who is one.

He is doing fantastically well on his HS diploma and trade certification. College degrees are a dime a dozen while a skilled tradesmen is a diamond in the rough…

Originally posted by Skerrako
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

So either there are no jobs really, or each of us is blaming the other group for competition in the market.

I actually figured someone would say this and have a prepared response. I did not place blame on the baby boomers I merely said it is one of the factor why there are less jobs in fields that many of us GenX'ers are qualified for as well. Sure I COULD get a job truck driving, but when I've spent 20k on Seech Pathology I would like a job in a certain pay range or Ill be in debt forever.

We're playing semantics. Whether you said specifically that you were blaming Boomers or merely "blaming" them as an example. I begin to suspect that there are members of all "groups" being employed but that in some areas Boomers are favored and in others younger minds are sought. Because I compete in Administration in the lowest levels, and in modern media - graphics, Flash, 3D rendering, video production - being a Boomer is a disadvantage. Given that there is a glut of job seekers and a dearth of jobs, the preference for younger workers in these fields will be all the more stark.

In your case, the sciences are held by the old men. And so the plethora of young minds struggle to press through that wall of paradigm, like so many sperm to an egg.

In the end, jobs just are scarce, and it is affecting all but the lucky - the ones born in the right place or who met the right person, or who was gifted with mathematical ability... The lucky are becoming fewer and fewer.

"In Soviet Russia everyone had a job, but you had to stand in line 3 hours to get bread."
-Peter Schiff

How about if we feed plenum ("dark"/Zero Point/radiant/orgone...) energy into what we have now, set up a site as described in the Ethical Planetarian Party platform (see sig), and bring forth the marvelous abundance Our universe, and particularly Our planet, have to give? I bet the production would overflow. Keep to true organics, address the problems that rise through the levels as We see is BEST and not most profitable or cost-effective because...with plenum energy, the need for money will dissipate.

reply to post by Amaterasu

So either there are no jobs really, or each of us is blaming the other group for competition in the market.

There really are no jobs..
Except low wage and or commission only jobs.. most jobs created this year have been "service" based.
The old and the young are in the same boat, even though we may blame each other for "stealing" jobs.

reply to post by jimmyx
why is it the a chinese or indian graduate can come here out of college and is able to take the job got only $25,000, while our kids can't??
is the gov't giving those immigrant grads some kind of financial reward for being here, or is it that their education didn't cost as much or both??

I'm kind of betting it is both???

there's no reason why we are seeing tuition this high to begin with in my opinion, it shouldn't cost this much, it didn't cost this much a few decades ago, and well.....
I got a feeling that it wouldn't cost this much except that at the top of every institution and industry, there's a group of people who feel that they have worked so hard, they deserve a half to a million dollars in salary every year. and well, when it comes to healthcare, or education, they seem to be able to charge whatever they want, and still get the customers because the gov't will gladly give money to many so they can be the customers.

our economy can't sustain this!!!

and the idea that everyone would go out and get a college degree if they wanted to make something akin to a living wage was insane to begin with!!! the first welfare workers didn't have college degrees, and yet now, you need a college degree to work for social service, (and the service that they are providing isn't any better!!)......we used to have all kinds of apprenticeship programs out there, now you have to go to college or have experience to get those jobs, the business don't want to waste their time training people for anything, so now, we have a shortage in many skilled laborers (like machinists, ect).
and we will always need those other jobs filled, ya know, those in resturants, cashiers, ect.
and there are many out there who kind of like that kind of work, are good at it, but well, ain't making crap in pay....by trying to con these people into going after the degree, you are just inflating the cost of everything (it's just gonna increase the number of people competing for the few jobs that we have in those areas while deflating the value of the degree) when many of them find themselves going back to doing what they did before they got that degree but well, needing higher pay, so they can pay off the debt they incurred getting it!!

the fact that we are unwilling to give those lower wage earners a decent pay, and instead coming up these excuses such as well, they need to improve themselves, study more, go to college, and on and on....
well, it seems to be costing us much more than just paying them the danged decent pay would when you consider the cost of the hud, welfare, food stamps, college aide, and on and on!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

So either there are no jobs really, or each of us is blaming the other group for competition in the market.

There really are no jobs..
Except low wage and or commission only jobs.. most jobs created this year have been "service" based.

The old and the young are in the same boat, even though we may blame each other for "stealing" jobs.

Oh, don't I know there are no jobs. [sigh] And in the market I'm in, what few jobs come along go to younger ones. Old ladies like me haven't got a chance.

The reason why there is an education bubble is the bankers got into education.

Before education loans, UC Berkeley tuition was about $600 a year, now its $10k to $15k, much higher than inflation rates.

Sallie Mae and the bankers just started giving easy access to loans to just about anyone and just like the housing market, colleges just started charging more. There is so much money flowing to colleges via loans that there are colleges propping up everywhere. Drive down Wilshire Bl. from downtown Los Angeles to Westwood and there seems to be around 50 colleges leasing out office and commercial space. Many are trade school types but at least learning nursing and such is more useful than learning social science in the big universities.

Now college certificates and degrees have become an inflated system. It is very hard to find a job without a degree or certificate so people have to go get one and bury themselves in debt in the process.

Pre-recession, the system was for people to pay in order to get a job.

Now people are just paying for a dream. Without jobs there is no point to get an education were the sole purpose was to get a job in the first place. All the people who are buried with student loans have no means to repay them. I can already who see who is gonna get the bailout from this failure and it isn't going to be the students.

Pre-1960's, high education was primarily for advanced engineers, medicine people, lawyers, educators, and people who just wanted to know stuff. Society functioned just fine (actually much better) without this degree inflation we have now. Ironically, even with just a small portion of the populace holding post high school degrees, people were actually much better with their math and grammar skills back then then they are now.

Just an update, I found this interesting link on the education bubble:

This library section traces the historical factors that led to higher education’s rapid expansion, specifically focusing on the influence of the GI Bill and Lyndon B. Johnson’s “Great Society” programs. It explores today’s higher education bubble and the factors that could cause the higher education bubble to burst.

LINK

This hour long documentary on the bursting of the education bubbles very informative: