The Nanny State Can't Last

So you people who think the US only became tyrannical in 2001 and ceased being tyrannical in 2008 are shut-in's or something?

The US has been tyrannical for over a century now and it's just getting worse each decade that passes.

With the exception of institutionalized not one single individual is freer today than people were a hundred years or more ago.

We think we are because of all the free time we all have to waste and all the places we can go and all the crap we can buy but we arent. Not by a long shot. Everywhere you go you have to have your "papers" with you whether it's ID, ticket or vehicle registration. Every time you move your home you're expected to notify your exit to the local authorities and register as a new resident to your new authorities.

Try not paying a tax. Try growing a field of hemp. Try fishing without your proper "papers" or hunting for food without your proper "papers."

We're all sharecroppers now. Sadly most dont see it. Horrifyingly some see it and actually prefer it and would go so far as to string you up for not supporting it.

We arent free. We've never known freedom. Our parents never knew it. Our parents parents might have had it briefly but soon forgot it.

We arent free. Idiots who focus on the past 8 years for their perspective on reality are a major reason we arent.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Well put and presented. Thats the point I was trying to depict to Theimacculatedone. I agree with you, and if you find the time to review my comments, you will see that Im on the same page as yourself.

Thanks~

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


well to split hairs my great grandfather,grandfather and father we a little more free than i am.

cant really argue with most of that.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
CNN
articles.cnn.com...

OLITICS

World Socialist Web Site :
www.wsws.org...

MSNBC's "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" from Mar 04 2009 -
www.youtube.com...

This is proof.

Nine Bush memos confirm that the US was a "Defacto Dictatorship" from about Sept 01 - Dec 08.!

Take a moment, and breathe. No one is denying that under 43rd we lived in a dictatorship. We still are under the rule of thumb. But using liberally biased sources, as your only and main basis of argument is clearly closed minded.

I mean really? World Socialist Web Site?

That sounds real lucrative to the discussion. Do you even know what socialist is?

I highly recommend reading Ludwig von Mises, and you may learn something?

CNN and MSNBC?

BWAHAHA! Surely you can't be that naive into believing that those 2 sources are oh so fair and balanced? Your funny! gave me a good laugh thanks!

Liberal biased? Are you kidding me? Put your rod, reel, tacklebox, goulash boots, fisherman's cap, raincoat away because that type of thinking is not wanted nor needed.

Reuter's
www.reuters.com...

US News & World Report
www.usnews.com...

Defeated with 5 links and you cannot provide one. Who is lying here?

Hook, Line, Sinker, SUNK!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


From page 1, you stated:

We were under a Defacto Dictatorship from Sept 01 - Dec 08 and was restored back to the nation we all love this is where we want to take this nation, forward towards harmony instead of backwards into deciet and dictatorial policies.

Lets try this again, using your sources, talking about memo's in regards to terrorism, and memo's in regards to the number of inmates, just exactly, how does that negate the infringements that we as the US citizenry are experiencing?
You claim we are no longer under a dictatorship? Please review:

1) Do you have to pay taxes? ( can you provide from the tax code law books that says we HAVE to pay taxes, Hint no you cant, it isnt written)
2) Who do you think increased the fuel prices?
3) Do you experience an infringement of your 4th Amendment rights, when TSA grope you?
4) Who expanded the Patriot Act, ( which violates the 4th Amendment as well )
5) Do you require documents to travel, whether that be Domestic or International

Shall I continue? Please provide an example that would suggest that we aren't being impacted by the laws implemented over the past several decades as well as now, under the current administration.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

From page 1, you stated:

We were under a Defacto Dictatorship from Sept 01 - Dec 08 and was restored back to the nation we all love this is where we want to take this nation, forward towards harmony instead of backwards into deciet and dictatorial policies.

Lets try this again, using your sources, talking about memo's in regards to terrorism, and memo's in regards to the number of inmates, just exactly, how does that negate the infringements that we as the US citizenry are experiencing?
You claim we are no longer under a dictatorship? Please review:

1) Do you have to pay taxes? ( can you provide from the tax code law books that says we HAVE to pay taxes, Hint no you cant, it isnt written) - The 16th Amendment authourizes this "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
2) Who do you think increased the fuel prices? - Big oil, OPEC trying to squash hybrids and electrics.
3) Do you experience an infringement of your 4th Amendment rights, when TSA grope you?
4) Who expanded the Patriot Act, ( which violates the 4th Amendment as well ) - No one.
5) Do you require documents to travel, whether that be Domestic or International - This has always been the standard.

Shall I continue? Please provide an example that would suggest that we aren't being impacted by the laws implemented over the past several decades as well as now, under the current administration.

All courtesy of TPTB. Added in quote!

Would any of you angelic conservatives care to explain why this nations fiscal house has been a disaster
since Ronald Reagan promotion, Presidency and the advancement of the economic ideas that you are
still promoting here?

Seems to me that there is a historical record that is consistently ignored

This nation thrived AND had the same core welfare programs in place for several decades

I think you are protesting the results of your own ideas...

2/3 of the last thirty years have been dictated by conservative ideologues

IT is and will always be the elephant in the room

Why did this poor government model start when your champion and his policies came into effect?

Originally posted by Janky Red
Would any of you angelic conservatives care to explain why this nations fiscal house has been a disaster
since Ronald Reagan promotion, Presidency and the advancement of the economic ideas that you are
still promoting here?

Seems to me that there is historical record that is consistently ignored

This nation thrived AND had the same core welfare programs in place for several decades

I think you are protesting the results of your own ideas...

2/3 of the last thirty years have been dictated by conservative ideologues

IT is and will always be the elephant in the room

Why did this poor government model start when your champion and his policies came into effect?

edit on 12-4-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

They will not because they are programmed and ordered that if they question it that they are not "True Americans". It is the blind leading the blind is all it is.

One could argue it was the point where the government legislated what public opinion should be, done under Lincoln, that the government became tyrannical. And under FDR (a Democrat) welfare programs sprouted. And under Kennedy, US involvement in Vietnam was cemented. Therefore, the Democrats have sought more to enshrine the US in convoluted action than anyone else.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

From page 1, you stated:

We were under a Defacto Dictatorship from Sept 01 - Dec 08 and was restored back to the nation we all love this is where we want to take this nation, forward towards harmony instead of backwards into deciet and dictatorial policies.

Lets try this again, using your sources, talking about memo's in regards to terrorism, and memo's in regards to the number of inmates, just exactly, how does that negate the infringements that we as the US citizenry are experiencing?
You claim we are no longer under a dictatorship? Please review:

1) Do you have to pay taxes? ( can you provide from the tax code law books that says we HAVE to pay taxes, Hint no you cant, it isnt written) - The 16th Amendment authourizes this "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
2) Who do you think increased the fuel prices? - Big oil, OPEC trying to squash hybrids and electrics.
3) Do you experience an infringement of your 4th Amendment rights, when TSA grope you?
4) Who expanded the Patriot Act, ( which violates the 4th Amendment as well ) - No one.
5) Do you require documents to travel, whether that be Domestic or International - This has always been the standard.

Shall I continue? Please provide an example that would suggest that we aren't being impacted by the laws implemented over the past several decades as well as now, under the current administration.

All courtesy of TPTB. Added in quote!

edit on 12-4-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

TPTB huh? You do know who the current commander in chief is do you not?

I'm really enjoying this thread. To see folks try to jusify the entitlement/nanny state environment is truely a sad testiment to what we have to face.

Whether lib or republican, the government has grown too big. It has gotten too invasive, intrusive. If we are going to survive as a culture, we have to shrink government. We have to start relying on ourselves again.

We have to grow up.

how you spin a government shutdown with earned entitlements like military pay and retirement is beyond the scope i plan to take this reply; but its your thread even if its a little broad. you dont sound american; i dont know any americans that view america the nation as a nanny. americas issues have little to do with decreasing spending but the actual real and present war in place world wide between governments and companies vying for little resources. how much you want to bet that if america the fabrication passed a law against a company; thats fabricated: your opinion would sway in a heartbeat if you were to benefit.

Originally posted by beezzer
I'm really enjoying this thread. To see folks try to jusify the entitlement/nanny state environment is truely a sad testiment to what we have to face.

Whether lib or republican, the government has grown too big. It has gotten too invasive, intrusive. If we are going to survive as a culture, we have to shrink government. We have to start relying on ourselves again.

We have to grow up.

platitudes

That is so inspiring and so vague

Lets cut military spending in half, close foreign bases, eliminate the DHS and get rid of the people who make bad government on purpose, Republicans. That would shrink about half of government right there!

You'll grow up one day, don't worry

reply to post by Janky Red


I get a kick out of the "lets cut defense" but still gimme what's mine.
Sure, lets cut military spending. Lets actually WIN wars instead o perpetuating them.

Then cut entitlement programs at home, get rid of social security, lose the medicare medicade programs, and create something thats actually effective. Lose the perpetual welfare programs, and increase incentives to work instead of gloming off the system just to see how much you can get for free.

When government creates programs that create an excuse for bigger government, then you have a problem. But keep your hand out for the handouts some of that "free" money may fall your way, courtesey of the tax payers.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

I get a kick out of the "lets cut defense" but still gimme what's mine.
Sure, lets cut military spending. Lets actually WIN wars instead o perpetuating them.

Then cut entitlement programs at home, get rid of social security, lose the medicare medicade programs, and create something thats actually effective. Lose the perpetual welfare programs, and increase incentives to work instead of gloming off the system just to see how much you can get for free.

When government creates programs that create an excuse for bigger government, then you have a problem. But keep your hand out for the handouts

some of that "free" money may fall your way, courtesey of the tax payers.

I think spending money on citizens is a better use for money than shooting it out of a barrel

Social security and medicare are effective, all the geezers in my family did not feel too bad about either, in some cases it helped a lot.

In the end though, I am really against corporate engorgment first and for most, that is the basis of my opposition. The transference of power to private hands is what I oppose...

What is very ironic is the self serving private system, raises their "taxation" ratio at a much steeper rate
with their inflated bills and cost. Look at the cost of cigarettes in the last 15 years, the private system
extorts 350 - 600% more money for the same fawking product and they are taxed LESS. It is a great example of what Real America
fails to consider... How about the Private Health care system which will equal the GDP in less than 40 years at this rate...

Gasoline...

Pharma...

SO

Why can't the GOP redirect all these proposed tax cuts to the $34,000 to $85,000 who pay 25%???

No

they direct the benefit to people who make nearly $400,000 a year + who pay 35%


why???

reply to post by Janky Red

You're going to have to ask someone who is IN the GOP. In a nutshell, we are treating the symptoms, not the cause. The cause being government is too big.
We have you fine folks constantly justifying how it needs to remain that way. It's going to be tough, but if we don't do this willingly, then someday REAL soon, we are going to have to face it unwillingly.

Then it'll be alot worse, and finger-pointing is going to be a moot point.

Originally posted by beezzer
. The cause being government is too big.

Ok

tell me how the government made

Phil Morris raise rates from $1.35 a pack to $6.25 in less than two decades

Lets bump off the taxes and ask why supply and demand failed so miserably in mitigating
exorbitant pricing? 350% let us say, less taxes to account for minimum wage increases too


Explain how government being too big forces such prices

Currently Wallstreet speculators are actively inflating food prices nearly 25% and Gasoline

Maybe Wall Street is too big?

How about both?

Originally posted by Whereweheaded

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

From page 1, you stated:

We were under a Defacto Dictatorship from Sept 01 - Dec 08 and was restored back to the nation we all love this is where we want to take this nation, forward towards harmony instead of backwards into deciet and dictatorial policies.

Lets try this again, using your sources, talking about memo's in regards to terrorism, and memo's in regards to the number of inmates, just exactly, how does that negate the infringements that we as the US citizenry are experiencing?
You claim we are no longer under a dictatorship? Please review:

1) Do you have to pay taxes? ( can you provide from the tax code law books that says we HAVE to pay taxes, Hint no you cant, it isnt written) - The 16th Amendment authourizes this "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
2) Who do you think increased the fuel prices? - Big oil, OPEC trying to squash hybrids and electrics.
3) Do you experience an infringement of your 4th Amendment rights, when TSA grope you?
4) Who expanded the Patriot Act, ( which violates the 4th Amendment as well ) - No one.
5) Do you require documents to travel, whether that be Domestic or International - This has always been the standard.

Shall I continue? Please provide an example that would suggest that we aren't being impacted by the laws implemented over the past several decades as well as now, under the current administration.

All courtesy of TPTB. Added in quote!

edit on 12-4-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

TPTB huh? You do know who the current commander in chief is do you not?

Do you know who put Obama there right? TPTB! Lobbyists, you know the multi trillion dollar a year lobbying groups? You forgot about them, they are driving this mess. Let us not also forget about those entities who turned the stock market into a literate casino.

To restrict the size of Gov't allows corporations to do literately whatever the flip they want to and have no one saying a thing about it and not having one person or entity be allowed to look over their shoulders. When Gov't is bigger that allows them to employ thier status as Government which allows them to fully use the full resources of The US Federal Gov't in order to leverage a company to force them to lower prices.

But, you want deregulation and don't want Gov't having the ability to look at the practice of any company out there and when we do not we will get more of the same time and time again.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

You're going to have to ask someone who is IN the GOP. In a nutshell, we are treating the symptoms, not the cause. The cause being government is too big.
We have you fine folks constantly justifying how it needs to remain that way. It's going to be tough, but if we don't do this willingly, then someday REAL soon, we are going to have to face it unwillingly.

Then it'll be alot worse, and finger-pointing is going to be a moot point.

The cause is the multi trillion dollar a year lobbying firms, continued deregulation, continued outsourcing is the cause of the problems.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Yes I agree with you in all your posting on this thread. The current POTUS has just expanded all the NWO plans and implementations, added Socialised health care to the list of already massive entitlements, added more government employees, shut down more of the private sector, socialised the auto and financial industry, invaded Libya without Congress(but went to the UN), insulted Patriots who object to this lousy treatment, and now is talking about raising taxes. He looks down his nose at us every time he talks( mean literally and intellectually, just look at the position of his head). He has also encouraged labor revolutions in foreign countries while telling more than one Head of State to step down, while discouraging genuine revolts against genuine authoritarian leaders(Iran), and ignored conservative protesters at home while encouraging labor uprisings. It is so obvious what he is about.