UN Says the Palestinians Are Ready To Govern a State

www.ynetnews.com...
This is likely why Netanyahu is panicking and talking about pulling back from some areas. Once the UN recognizes Palestine as a state on the 1967 lines all settlements beyond that will be part of the new state.That would mean the settlers which Israel encouraged to move to land outside of Israel would have to choose to move back to Israel or become Jewish citizens in the Palestinian state.
This is a huge problem for Israel. It would be much better for them to freeze construction and begin negotiating with the Palestinians to get more of what they want. Equal area land swaps for the large settlement blocks, concessions on water rights, A very limited right of return, Keeping part of East Jerusalem, a non militarised state, etc
.
Hamas of course is an entirely different issue and may be separated from the new state until they reform. Even the US seems to be behind this deal although they would prefer a nogotiated peace to make Israel happy. Actually, I would too. It is always better when each side agrees. Neither side would get everything they want but they each would be satisfied they each got everything they could. This would be a happier outcome.

Israel COULD respond by annexing all the large settlement blocks but like the Golan and east Jerusalem the world will consider that move illegal and would not recognize it. The UN would consider Israels border to be the 1967 lines so they would continue to be "occupiers".

With 500,000 settlers it will be a difficult for Israel but then again they allowed this to happen and now they will pay the price.

yeah but who's really backing the new palestinian state.... the stinians or tptb...

peace would be good tho

reply to post by gem_man


Most excellent to see that a group of humans may get some rights and recognition from the rest of the world.
Maybe the next time these sovereign peoples land is attacked and or invaded the world or un or... will do something about it.
Now what is the catch is all i wanna know.

Originally posted by Beavers
peace would be good tho

would it really ???

Peace brings the anti-Christ and eventually
Armageddon as stated by Biblical prophesy.

Peace in the ME is just 1 step closer
to death for billions world wide.

So I ask again:
would peace really be good ???

reply to post by gem_man


PM Netanyahu is NOT panicking and the UN will NOT recognise "palestine" as an independant nation anytime soon until they have reached a peace deal with Israel AND the Gazans; the Gazans won't be agreeing to any deal Fatah make with Israel.

1. If Gaza is part of this "palestinian" state, which it is, Hamas has already made it clear they will not honor any peace deal between Israel and Fatah.

2. "Palestinians" of the West Bank have no economy and 90% of their $$$ comes from foreign aid. They set up Govt in Sept.....their Govt falls apart a month later without that aid. How can any independant nation continue to survive on outside aid? That's not an independant nation, thats a dependant nation!!!

3. Even the Arab League stated clearly that both Fatah and Hamas are not unified even independantly as individual enterprizes and neither are fit enough to run any Govt. Just look at any Arab nation? Looks like NONE of them are fit to run a local Co-op shop!

........so the dream of any "palestinian" independant nation is just that......a failed dream........their next chance will come when the US and NATO destroy every monarchy in the Middle East.....the gates of Trans Jordan will open soon then Israel can be rid of all "palestinians" once and for all.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I believe you are wrong in your assesment on several points. You do not think the UN will recognize a Palestinian state without a negotiated deal with Israel. I guess you can't see that, that is exactly why the UN WILL recognize the Pal state. NO PEACE DEAL!

As far as the West Bank economy is concerned Wikipedia says they had an 8% increase in GNP in 2009. (2010 is not out yet) In any case stop and think what economy Israel had when they declared their state. New states always have an emerging economy and they will get lots of help (aid) from other countries, you know like Israel still does.

From my viewpoint, the declaration and UN recognition of a Palestinian state will be the best thing for Israel. Finally there will be peace in the West Bank. As I said before Gaza is a different story but who knows, things there can change. Israels security can be assurred by an international border force since Palestine will likely be demilitarised.

The issue of the right of return is an individual right that can not be negotiated away but There will be a lot of empty settler homes that returnees can move into along with Israel accepting a token number of refugees to return to their former properties.

I envision the day when Jews and Arabs Will respect one another and work together, you know like they used to do before the Zionists arrived.

reply to post by gem_man

“As far as the West Bank economy is concerned Wikipedia says they had an 8% increase in GNP in 2009. (2010 is not out yet) In any case stop and think what economy Israel had when they declared their state. New states always have an emerging economy and they will get lots of help (aid) from other countries, you know like Israel still does.”

Israel receives about 3 billion which is only a fraction of Israel's 250 billion annual budget.
Most of that 3 billion MUST be spent by purchasing military equipment exclusively from US industries, thus both parties benefit from that arrangement.
Further more, US on many occasions told Israel to stop developing new sophisticated weapons despite them being years more advanced than any other weapon available. In return, the USA offered Israel to buy American products in a more convenient terms. Such was the case with the Israeli Lavi jet fighter.
Before 1967, Israel only received American LOANS which did not exceed 100 million dollars.
Palestinians are light years away from where Israel was when it was born.

“From my viewpoint, the declaration and UN recognition of a Palestinian state will be the best thing for Israel. Finally there will be peace in the West Bank. As I said before Gaza is a different story but who knows, things there can change. Israels security can be assurred by an international border force since Palestine will likely be demilitarised.”

Yes, just like the UN forces stopped Hizbulla from repeated attacks on Israel.
Or just like they evacuated before 1973 war begun.
Or like they managed to stop the genocide in Darfur.

“The issue of the right of return is an individual right that can not be negotiated away but There will be a lot of empty settler homes that returnees can move into along with Israel accepting a token number of refugees to return to their former properties.”

Yep, just like all the settlements that were evacuated in Gaza in 2005 are used as Hamas training bases, and the foreign aid funds vanished in their leaders pockets. Not to relieve - god forbid - the lives of those in refugee camps.

“I envision the day when Jews and Arabs Will respect one another and work together, you know like they used to do before the Zionists arrived.”

Sure, just like the 1929 massacre and all the other massacres that followed until present day.

Fayyad today has requested 5 billion from doners to launch the Palestinian state
www.haaretz.com...
Seems like this is moving right along and it is about time!

reply to post by gem_man


What donor countries are you talking about? Saudi Arabia? LOL

READ CAREFULLY........ALL monarchies of the Middle East are going to fall by end of 2012........that plan is already in motion, after Libya, next stop? Do I have to spell it out to you? One by one, every single Arab nation is going to fall; Saudi Arabia is final destination.

The UN will NEVER get enough votes to recognise this abortion of a state "palestine" without a peace deal between the "palestinians" and Israel. Fatah and Hamas will NEVER unite; therefore no peace deal with Israel. GOT IT?

The only fesiable way to have a "palestinian" state is one right across the border and in to Trans Jordan. THAT IS THE GOAL and it's already in motion as I type.

Dream your little dreams because I know I'm right and you're wrong.

Do you HONESTLY think that if borders were reinstated to 1967, even decades there, Gazan terrorists would STOP lobbing rockets into Israel and Iran/Syria/Lebanon would STOP funding these groups financially/militarily???

Someone please respond.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


Of course Iran is not going to stop funding Hamas and Hizbollah

There will NEVER be a "palestinian" state within the borders of Israel; not now, not ever.

Where do you get "the settlers which Israel encouraged to settle" ?

That is a BLATANT lie. Why do you even feel the need to distort the truth here. Its well known that Israel has done quite a great deal to stifle the settlers in their various settlements.

Not so long ago Israel sent a force into a recently settled area in Judea and destroyed it. Is that "encouraging settlers"? Have you EVEN READ what the Israeli media says about the Settlers? Feel free to go to HaAretz, or Jerusalem Post and type in "Settlers" in their search bar. These biggest, state run Media outlets are nothing but critical of the settlers.

Another enormous problem is the 500,000 Jews, or "Dhimmis" living in Judea and Samaria. Whats to happen to these people? Will they be removed as if it werent the same thing the PA whines over? And also what about that detestable "law of return"?

Dont imagine that Israel will just sit aside and allow 500,000 of its citizens to be kicked out. The Arabs that left palestine should be settling in the Arab countries they migrated too. They would be doing this, and indeed they wouldnt regard themselves as displaced "refugees" if the various countries theyve gone to PERMITTED them citizenship. Yes. UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Qatar...none of these countries grant citizenship to Palestinians. Why? For political reasons, obviously. This just shows you how dishonest the Arab cause is.

When 850,000 Arab born Jews were kicked out of Arab lands, and 100 Billion dollars (by todays monetary value) worth of property and assets, confiscated, where was the uproar? Where was the UN? Its repulsive that this equally important issue, or perhaps even more important (since more was taken from them than the palestinians) remains relatively unknown.

reply to post by dontreally


Correct.......and here's some links for Gem Man

www.forgottenrefugees.org...

www.hsje.org...

Originally posted by dontreally
Where do you get "the settlers which Israel encouraged to settle" ?

That is a BLATANT lie. Why do you even feel the need to distort the truth here. Its well known that Israel has done quite a great deal to stifle the settlers in their various settlements.

Not so long ago Israel sent a force into a recently settled area in Judea and destroyed it. Is that "encouraging settlers"? Have you EVEN READ what the Israeli media says about the Settlers? Feel free to go to HaAretz, or Jerusalem Post and type in "Settlers" in their search bar. These biggest, state run Media outlets are nothing but critical of the settlers.

Another enormous problem is the 500,000 Jews, or "Dhimmis" living in Judea and Samaria. Whats to happen to these people? Will they be removed as if it werent the same thing the PA whines over? And also what about that detestable "law of return"?

Dont imagine that Israel will just sit aside and allow 500,000 of its citizens to be kicked out. The Arabs that left palestine should be settling in the Arab countries they migrated too. They would be doing this, and indeed they wouldnt regard themselves as displaced "refugees" if the various countries theyve gone to PERMITTED them citizenship. Yes. UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Qatar...none of these countries grant citizenship to Palestinians. Why? For political reasons, obviously. This just shows you how dishonest the Arab cause is.

When 850,000 Arab born Jews were kicked out of Arab lands, and 100 Billion dollars (by todays monetary value) worth of property and assets, confiscated, where was the uproar? Where was the UN? Its repulsive that this equally important issue, or perhaps even more important (since more was taken from them than the palestinians) remains relatively unknown.

Lets take a closer look at your post.
The Israeli media is the lone voice in the political wilderness and knows the settler movement is very bad for Israel. Unfortunately the media does not rule Israel, the government does. What does the government do to discourage settlers? Well they
1. Authorize the settlements
2. They build roads to the settlements
3. they provide water and electricity to the sellments.
4. They provide IDF security to the settlements
This would seem to be encouragement.
IF a settlement is NOT authorized it would be subject to removal.
Incidently, the thread is about the UN saying the Palestinians are ready to govern a state. Nothing in your post relates to the topic at hand.
Over 100 countries already recognize a Palestinian state and many others say they will recognize a palestinian state on the 1967 lines. The settlers are Israels problem as it is a problem THEY created and to this day allow settlements to expand creating even more settlers. The world no longer cares what Israel wants. It is time for the government to adhere to International Law and remove the illegal settlements to preclude problems between the settlers and the new Palestinian state.
One more thought . hundreds of thousands of Jews left Arab states sometimes by force but mostly to populate the new state of Israel and much of their property was confiscated. I believe this was a terrible injustice akin to the injustice when Israel confiscated lands that have been in the hands of Arabs for generations. Terrible, just terrible!

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Beavers
peace would be good tho

would it really ???

Peace brings the anti-Christ and eventually
Armageddon as stated by Biblical prophesy.

Peace in the ME is just 1 step closer
to death for billions world wide.

So I ask again:
would peace really be good ???

Do you honestly believe all that anti-Christ BS? Of course peace would be good, definitely. I say they go for it, no sense in slaughtering hundreds of innocent lives in fear the anti-Christ will arrive one day. Psh. I'm tired of seeing them screwed over by the Israeli. Its time for change. :thumbsup:

reply to post by gem_man


Settlements? Why not use the words "new SUBURBS" as a better description!!!

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by gem_man

 

“As far as the West Bank economy is concerned Wikipedia says they had an 8% increase in GNP in 2009. (2010 is not out yet) In any case stop and think what economy Israel had when they declared their state. New states always have an emerging economy and they will get lots of help (aid) from other countries, you know like Israel still does.”

Israel receives about 3 billion which is only a fraction of Israel's 250 billion annual budget.
Most of that 3 billion MUST be spent by purchasing military equipment exclusively from US industries, thus both parties benefit from that arrangement.
Further more, US on many occasions told Israel to stop developing new sophisticated weapons despite them being years more advanced than any other weapon available. In return, the USA offered Israel to buy American products in a more convenient terms. Such was the case with the Israeli Lavi jet fighter.
Before 1967, Israel only received American LOANS which did not exceed 100 million dollars.
Palestinians are light years away from where Israel was when it was born.

“From my viewpoint, the declaration and UN recognition of a Palestinian state will be the best thing for Israel. Finally there will be peace in the West Bank. As I said before Gaza is a different story but who knows, things there can change. Israels security can be assurred by an international border force since Palestine will likely be demilitarised.”

Yes, just like the UN forces stopped Hizbulla from repeated attacks on Israel.
Or just like they evacuated before 1973 war begun.
Or like they managed to stop the genocide in Darfur.

“The issue of the right of return is an individual right that can not be negotiated away but There will be a lot of empty settler homes that returnees can move into along with Israel accepting a token number of refugees to return to their former properties.”

Yep, just like all the settlements that were evacuated in Gaza in 2005 are used as Hamas training bases, and the foreign aid funds vanished in their leaders pockets. Not to relieve - god forbid - the lives of those in refugee camps.

“I envision the day when Jews and Arabs Will respect one another and work together, you know like they used to do before the Zionists arrived.”

Sure, just like the 1929 massacre and all the other massacres that followed until present day.

Wow, so many things I see you state are so openly false especially the bold. The obscure thing between Israel's an America's relationship is that Israel is the only country that can spend aid on their own military products. That is true, that is also why Israels weapons suppliers have become so large that they can expand their markets to the Third World.

do you really think that if Israel will return to its pre 1967 borders
they will stop bombing the crap out of those people whos land they just stole?
maybe let the kids have some cookies...?
don't even bother to respond...



unless you have a copy of this deed from god they go on and on and on and on about...
but never produce...

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Do you HONESTLY think that if borders were reinstated to 1967, even decades there, Gazan terrorists would STOP lobbing rockets into Israel and Iran/Syria/Lebanon would STOP funding these groups financially/militarily???

Someone please respond.

No. No one here is making these claims. However the need for the youth to ressort to terrorism will be grately reduced. Eventually well they have their soveriegnty, freedom, self determination with the fear of Israel in the back of the mind, the terrorist groups will slowly fade, one day completely. By continuing to repress the Palestinians, support for terrorist orginizations will only grow deeper.

reply to post by Beavers


www.haaretz.com...

Who is backing it? Seems like the Quartet may. Read the link.