Focardi & Rossi E-Cat: First Cold Fusion Power Plant to be built in Greece. Next one in USA!

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by spikey

 

In other words... It's all marketing...

Yeahhh.... I guess they conned 'the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology'..

"In March 29, 2011 two Swedish physicists, Hanno Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society and Sven Kullander, Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University and also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy Committee, participated as observers in a test of a smaller version of the Energy Catalyzer."

So why don't you put your money where your mouth is and PROVE IT!
Prove this is marketing because pretty much everything else is pointing in the opposite direction.

There is no evidence that this is just marketing, on the contrary, there IS evidence that this is the real deal. Not proof mind you, but evidence.

So if you're gonna be a skeptic just for the sheer hell of it you should probably have the evidence to back it up.

Good try though..

reply to post by Arken


This does sound like that Italian scientist who figured out how to send a man to the sun.


They were going to leave at dusk.


Hoax.

reply to post by boncho


Oh no it's you again. Even when absolutely credible scientist and real science journals provide the verification you still somehow know more than the physicists.

Love it.

Luckily no one cares what you think. Also love your sketchy links. You blast others and then provide bogus info yourself as long as it supports your cynical claims.

Rossi has a sketchy business past with a machine that worked. Not vice versa.

Is he a shady dude? Maybe.,but that has nothing to do with his concepts being proven.

Your cynicism and conspiracy theories are the opposite of some o the crazies on here But that makes you just an opposite nut.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by spikey

 

Yeah...in a nut shell the testing lab couldn't determine with any level of certainty that the two samples they were testing came from the reactor or not. They just had to report on the composition of the samples, rather than the origin of them. Pretty standard stuff actually.

As for them not having access to the inner workings and design/materials of the reactor, that's pretty standard stuff too...would you let anyone have a look inside your world changing invention at this early stage?

Actually it's not 'pretty standard stuff'. Legitimate scientists do not work in the hush hush manner. Unless they are contracted to work on classified, but still, their methods don't change instead they are just limited to who they can share with.

And the second part is not normal either. Patents are meant to protect the inventor, so they can share it without risk. Rossi could have sent his work to independent labs and enforced confidentiality/non-disclosure agreements, if they broke those, they would be liable for a very large amount of money.

Nothing this guy does make sense, and there is no reason for defending very, very suspect actions.

What if his cold fusion tech IS real AND he is shady and there is some other reason for his secrecy..

I don't believe these things happening at the same time are a coincidence

1. Japan earthquake and nuclear reactor disaster
2. the US overhauling the middle east
3. the release of cold fusion

This could be why Rossi isn't releasing the details of his system.. because it will be made illegal before it is fully released because of the dangerous implications in a military sense adn economic sense...

My belief is that the US government was working on a 50 year plan to deal with the Middle East... and to ensure tech like cold fusion and antigravity doesn't go mainstream.. I believe their plans got muddled when Pons and Fleischmann discovered cold fusion..- Bob lazar showed up on the scene later that same year. I also susoect the CIA, which is likely meshed with higher learning science insitutions, helped shoot down cold fusion at the time, too..

Hey y'all, my first post. Enjoy~

Physics of Cold Fusion/Anti-Gravity (and/or gravity shielding?) - Series of 20+ videos, easy to understand/follow, even fun to listen to, in my opinion. Here are links to the first video, and an incomplete playlist of ~20 of them embedded. seattle4truth's and AlienScientist's videos have tons of (generally) great content that makes sense.

Youtube link in case I mess up the embed

Clicky for the playlist

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by spikey

 

Anything I have posted about Rossi is positive. I have shown his history and given him some context for ATS posters. That is great I think. Blindly believing anyone who comes out and says they have invented cold fusion has more negative consequences in the long run.

Just ask Rossi's previous investors...

edit on 12-4-2011 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Your bias is showing as you forgot to mention the several prominent scientist who have verified the device output being greater then the input, confirmed it is a low level safe nuclear reaction, and ruled out any trickery or hidden power sources.

So yes read this other thread where Boncho posted several attacks on this technology and read my responses to him. Bottom line is Boncho is trying way to hard to debunk this and drawing conclusions based on hearsay. He is johnny on the spot the second anything is posted like this. I have refuted all his arguments. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by TheLaughingGod

Yeahhh.... I guess they conned 'the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology'..

If this is a con... Would not be the first time the scientific community or the energy industry got conned.

In 1996, American physicist Alan Sokal submitted a paper loaded with nonsensical jargon to the journal Social Text, in which he argued that quantum gravity is a social and linguistic construct. (Read Sokal's paper) When the journal published it, Sokal revealed that the paper was in fact a spoof. The incident triggered a storm of debate about the ethics of Sokal's prank.

1

Jan Hendrik Schön (born 1970 in Verden) is a German physicist who briefly rose to prominence after a series of apparent breakthroughs that were later discovered to be fraudulent.[1]

Before he was exposed, Schön had received the Otto-Klung-Weberbank Prize for Physics in 2001, the Braunschweig Prize in 2001 and the Outstanding Young Investigator Award of the Materials Research Society in 2002, which was later rescinded. The Schön scandal provoked discussion in the scientific community about the degree of responsibility of coauthors and reviewers of scientific papers. The debate centered on whether peer review, traditionally designed to find errors and determine relevance and originality of papers, should also be required to detect deliberate fraud.

1

More
and
More

Anyone remember this one?

So why don't you put your money where your mouth is and PROVE IT! Prove this is marketing because pretty much everything else is pointing in the opposite direction.

They won't let anyone do blind studies, they wont sign independent labs to confidentiality agreements and non-disclosure to let them replicate their work without the risk of it being stolen. My money is in my mouth (so to speak).
Paper written by the Swedes (on Rossi's e-cat.

The tube was made of copper and according to Rossi, the reaction chamber is hidden inside in the central part and made of stainless steel.

During the running we used the rightmost one of the devices, figure 4, which is surrounded by a 2 cm thick lead shield, as stated by Rossi, and wrapped with insulation, figure 5.

Since we do not have access to the internal design of the central fuel container and no information on the external lead shielding and the cooling water system we can only make very general comments.

stated by, according to... are not words that should be appearing in a scientific paper. Especially one that is trying to validate something.

There is no evidence that this is just marketing, on the contrary, there IS evidence that this is the real deal. Not proof mind you, but evidence.

There is plenty of evidence. Why tell anyone at all what you have unless you are trying to build up a buzz for investors. It is clear Rossi doesn't want to share any information. So why bother saying anything at all?

So if you're gonna be a skeptic just for the sheer hell of it you should probably have the evidence to back it up. Good try though..

I posted links earlier to other threads I have covered Rossi in. It was up to you to look through them. Since most people in this thread probably won't, I will address every concern people have with my skeptical stance, individually.

So now we can start thinking about making stuff like laser rifles, nuclear powered I-pads and battlemechs? After we solve our energy crisis I mean.

reply to post by Movescamp

Oh no it's you again. Even when absolutely credible scientist and real science journals provide the verification you still somehow know more than the physicists.

What "real science journal" is it exactly?

You must be referring to "the journal of nuclear physics" which is not a journal but a blog.

Journal of Nuclear Physics
Nuclear experiments blog

That is quote from Rossi's site. The "scientific journal" he created that is really just a blog.

Rossi's blog.

Also as already mentioned in this thread... One of the advisors is a dead psychology professor from New Hampshire University. I covered it in a thread already with this post and this post.

Luckily no one cares what you think. Also love your sketchy links. You blast others and then provide bogus info yourself as long as it supports your cynical claims.

If I have posted some bad links with bad information please point it out and I will retract anything that was posted error. Most of the links I post when dealing with Rossi come straight from the source.

Rossi has a sketchy business past with a machine that worked. Not vice versa.

He was selling non existent products to a company that had already shut down. Then he sold machines overseas that didn't work and he blamed the manufacturer.

Some of this is covered in this post..

Some info is sourced from Italian so the translations are a little rough.

Is he a shady dude? Maybe.,but that has nothing to do with his concepts being proven.

Right, and with his shady past he should be going to great lengths to be transparent and have his system proven. But instead he is the epitome of secretive.

Your cynicism and conspiracy theories are the opposite of some o the crazies on here But that makes you just an opposite nut.

Please outline my "conspiracy theory". Not sure what you are getting at.

reply to post by 8311-XHT

...My belief is that the US government was working on a 50 year plan to deal with the Middle East... and to ensure tech like cold fusion and antigravity doesn't go mainstream..

Sorry, everything in your post is highly speculative and really does not make sense. If you want to open a thread in skunk works, go for it.

reply to post by hawkiye

Your bias is showing as you forgot to mention the several prominent scientist who have verified the device output being greater then the input, confirmed it is a low level safe nuclear reaction, and ruled out any trickery or hidden power sources.

Your bias is keeping you from acknowledging that no independent study was done on Rossi's system. And nothing has been accepted into any legitimate journal. There has been no proper peer review.

So yes read this other thread where Boncho posted several attacks on this technology and read my responses to him. Bottom line is Boncho is trying way to hard to debunk this and drawing conclusions based on hearsay. He is johnny on the spot the second anything is posted like this. I have refuted all his arguments.

It's easy to be "Johnny on the spot" when you research stuff that isn't associated with viral marketing. As I stated before, I am not trying to "debunk" anything. There is nothing out there to validate any of Rossi's claims, or prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has something.

I love this now all the Nay-sayers are ashamed to come out of their shells as i once quoted from anonymous

Guy better go into hiding, the Oil Barrens will be sending out the Assassins


All the haters of Free energy and shills government dis-info agents be ASHAMED!

reply to post by boncho


Its easy to not get an accepted Peer review when the Oil Barrens and energy giants are not letting any type of free energy get out to the public. They want cap and trade and $$$ from any kind of energy they harness No matter what.

BTW he signed the contract saying he wouldn't make any money if it doesn't work whats your excuse for that huh??

reply to post by boncho

Your bias is keeping you from acknowledging that no independent study was done on Rossi's system. And nothing has been accepted into any legitimate journal. There has been no proper peer review.

False statements like this is why you have no credibility. I absolutely have acknowledged on the other threads that there has been no independent peer review by any orthodox journal and I qualified it by pointing out they are political and biased since most of them are funded by the energy cartels. Of course you call it proper but I disagree and you yourself pointed out they can be easily duped so it is a mystery why you have so much faith in these supposed proper journals when they can be duped so easily.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt originally however you also lost all credibility when you ignored the prominent scientists infinitely more qualified then you who have observed the device first-hand, observed partial disassembly of the device, confirmed greater output then input, ruled out hidden power supplies, ruled out chemical reaction, confirmed low level nuclear reaction, put out papers on it and given interviews repeating those very things. Your response is to dismiss them since thier tests, observations, and reviews have not met your supposed stringent criteria. Yet you have not posted your credentials so we can compare them to the scientists actually studying the device...

reply to post by tangan


Thank you for the link! I couldn't have known it, since this newspaper is a local one, located in
the city of Xanthi, where this investment is going to take place, and I live about a thousand km
away

reply to post by XRaDiiX

Its easy to not get an accepted Peer review when the Oil Barrens and energy giants are not letting any type of free energy get out to the public.

He has had offers from people in lenr research that offered to do blind studies on his machine but he won't release any info. He doesn't want independent verification.

BTW he signed the contract saying he wouldn't make any money if it doesn't work whats your excuse for that huh??

This is the company that is supposed to launch his 1mw reactor.

A whois on them will show you that the website was created on:

Creation date: 13 Jan 2011 20:00:00

"ANDREAS MEINTANIS" is listed as the contact through a g-mail account.

There is one more e-mail listed through another gmail account on the whois.

As well as a Mr. S. Tsalikoglou listed through yet another gmail account on Rossi's blog.


I am posting this here more as a reference for myself later. I will keep looking into it. But to address the logic you are using:

BTW he signed the contract saying he wouldn't make any money if it doesn't work whats your excuse for that huh??

He signed a contract with Defkalion? A company that just popped up with three unknowns that all have gmail addresses.

It could be nothing more than a ploy.

Not enough info at this time to make a conclusive assessment. There are some other people supposedly tied to the company but I couldn't find enough evidence to support it, on the fact that I don't speak Greek.

reply to post by hawkiye

I know by your posts you have looked into this far less than I have. The simple fact that people in the same field as Rossi that are trying to accomplish the same thing as him, have major doubts about him says a lot.

The rest of your logic is null. You haven't addressed any of the history I have posted about the inventor and why I shouldn't remain skeptical with all that information.

The simple fact that Rossi spends so much time making comments on his blog is a little strange. His behavior is straight up confusing.

If you look for explanations out there you find a lot of people looking to figure out what he is doing:

"The temperature and 'air quality' measurements were taken INSIDE the reactor, (in holes prepared by Rossi) instead at its final output. Nobody could see inside the reactor so there are a lot of possibility. One possibility I thought is that an amount of the water flow have been diverted. One part of the water flow actually goes inside the "hot core", heats and became vapour and another part simply bypass everything in another internal pipe and go directly to the output where it is re-mixed with the first part. Nobody measured the output steam flow or its speed (should be around 74 m/s for 5 g/s flow!!!) The electric power input was sufficient to vaporize the fraction of the water flow that goes into the core and that is measured. With a divertor commanded by a simply thermo-sensor, all can you see from outside is a behaviour like a start of internal energy generation insted it's only the start of a flow fractioning. All this consideration is independent from the honesty of Rossi, there is this possibility so it has to be denied by a new measure (possibly without steam production)."

I am not saying the above posted text is correct, only that there are theories out there as to what Rossi is exactly doing.

There has still been no independent review. You keep quoting the Swedes but they didn't do any legitimate analysis of Rossi's machine.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
reply to post by Arken

 

This does sound like that Italian scientist who figured out how to send a man to the sun.
They were going to leave at dusk.

No. This is real and proved!
They figured out how to create a little "Sun" right in your home, without neutrons emission!

This does sound like that "Italians" scientist "do it better"!

Originally posted by Arken
Toyota Company know enough about Cold Fusion: www.greenbang.com...

Did you even bother to read that article? Nowhere does it mention Toyota having anything to do with cold fusion.

All it states is "Pons and Fleishmann eventually closed their labs and left for France to continue their research at a laboratory sponsored by Toyota. That lab closed in 1998 without any success in achieving cold fusion, and the term itself fell into disrepute"

They simply did their research at a lab sponsored by Toyota - and failed to show cold fusion!

reply to post by boncho


No I am focused on what is important. You on the other hand are focused on character attacks. You create suspicion with your links BUT HAVE PROVEN NOTHING. You ignore prominent scientist and thier findings and continue your circular argument always coming back around to character attacks. You character attacks are spoken as if they are facts when they are not. You are constantly leading the conversation back in that direction despite other evidence FROM VERY PROMINENT SCIENTIST LIKE Essén, and Kullander, Storms, Chubbs etc.

You muck up every thread repeating your non-sense over and over. We get it you think the guy is a fraud great now you can stop you said your piece, because of you continue it will just confirm you have an agenda or are perhaps a sock puppet...

In any-case i am done responding to your circular non-sense and warn others not to feed the trolls as he will just muck up this thread even further and always has to have the last word as you can see on the other threads