French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

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posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by PurpleDog UK
 


Good for the French standing up for their culture, when in Rome do as the Roman's. Any culture that wants to live in another country should adapt, learn the language and take part in the culture of the country they live in. I wish we here in the US had the same non PC attitude as the French on matters like this.

I am American/Iranian (Persian) and Muslim so do not call me a racist please...




posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





The truth is Ashley D half the people arguing against this are arguing for the right to be a slave... "If they become fully integrated into our society" Which is a nice way of saying learn to think and do as we do to be slaves to it like we are, even though you have lived your whole life thinking and living differently! It is saying in essence, you are free only if you are exactly like us!


So asking people to follow the laws of the country they MOVED to is wrong?

Im sorry but if you dont like the laws somewhere then go back to your country where your religion is predominant.......

I dont come into someones house and expect them to go by MY rules...........

What you described is the pentacle of the problem in the world now, narcissism........

I want what I WANT, and I dont care what YOU say or what YOUR laws are........



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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As I stated in my earlier post, the ban on the burqua is, from my understanding, more about it's reason, it's implication. It isn't required in the Qu'ran, it is only a secular interpretation of the Qu'ran which demands the wearing of the burqua of it's women. It is all about the subjugation of the female gender, nothing else. Sadly a lot of women who wear it are so brain washed and under control they believe, steadfastly, that it's their "right" to wear it. Ultimately at some stage someone needs to stand up and say no, for their sake even if they don't realise it is for their sake. Do we continue to allow something which symbolises the oppression of women? That is the real question here and the real point.
reply to post by torqpoc
 


Great point. i feel as if a lot of people on this thread don't really understand the real reasoning behind the decision of the French gov't. If the women don't want to be uplifted, then the ones that don't could just leave the country. simple as that. The women that want freedoms can enjoy them. and the chauvanists that want the women covered can get the # out too, as well as the brainwashed volunteers.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by 23432
 




How is the problem solved ?


It seems you missed the point of my post. It was in reference to 'Let those in Saudi do unto their own laws.' 'Let those in America do unto their own laws.'

Therefore, 'Let those in France do unto their own laws.'

You can't say other countries have the right to do as they wish but tell France they cannot.

For instance, as a devout Christian, I have severe issues with France's laws prohibiting religious expression in public. Therefore, note to self: Ashley, do not move to France.

That is their law. Case closed. Not that the problem in and of itself will magically disappear.

The poster above used Saudi and America as examples but that has nothing to do with France because France is not Saudi or America.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mr-lizard
 



So how is telling specific women specifically what they can't wear not alienating them?


Dodgy logic there. You're now twisting my argument back against me. Let's compare the amount of Islamic women in France who don't wear a burka against those tiny % who do.

How is that alienating people? It's a very sensible decision to retain dignity, culture and to treat women as equals.



Maybe they shouldn't have married that husband, but the truth is if there is a husband alive who doesn't tell his wife to do somethings I will show you a cuckhold.


Maybe SOME don't have a choice. Ponder that for a bit.



Isolated random occurences do not make for sound logic.


So you'll choose to ignore it then. Fine.



I gaurantee you what ever isolated occurences are in those links that no I did not read you will find similiar occurences in society after society, religion after religion.


So how is this even a fair debate? You're ignoring everything i've offered to you - from the opinions of French people, the opinions of muslim women, the opinions of analysts, victims, witnesses.



What you are arguing for is collective guilt by association.


You're arguing for the cause of ignorance. You even admit that you've deliberately ignored those links, because you think they are random, isolated incidents which should be ignored because they don't fit into your cookie-cutter way of thinking.



The truth is if Islam was as scary and horrible as some try to make it out to be they would have beheaded you all by now and their women would have all committed suicide.


Now that's stereotyping.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


I think many critical thinkers make sound cases for a system of Free Range Statist Slavery that is hard to dispute when you boil down the constructs being used to the simplest forms.

Is the United States, Britan and France members of the Free Range Statist Slavery System of taxation and passports, codes and laws that regulate every aspect of existence, fees, licensces and other payments to do natural things?

Yes they very much are.

One of the things many Westerners suffer from when it comes to not percieving the Free Range Slavery Statist System is they measure their limited freedoms against cultures that they believe as having less freedoms so therefore since they believe they are freer on their farm that they are free!

We see a similiar argument in politics all the time, Bush did this and it was worse so Obama doing something similiar bad but less bad is not bad but therefore good!

We are all being repressed from living fully free and independent lives free of fear of and of government intrusion and penalty. Often for offences that have hurt no one at all, but are simply economic opportunities for the government to regulate and make money through fines, and fees and slave prison labor.

You imagine you are free because you are better off in theory than those they point out to you that they claim are not as well off.

Wouldn't matter to you from what you are saying if a Muslim woman wearing a Burka was as happy as a chipmunk, what matters to you is you have been told and believe she shouldn't be!

That she is not free, but you are to dispute her happiness and to question it.

To in essence support your government in taking away what makes her happy even though she isn't hurting you at all.

No there is not much arguing with bullies.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by 23432
 




How is the problem solved ?


It seems you missed the point of my post. It was in reference to 'Let those in Saudi do unto their own laws.' 'Let those in America do unto their own laws.'

Therefore, 'Let those in France do unto their own laws.'

You can't say other countries have the right to do as they wish but tell France they cannot.

For instance, as a devout Christian, I have severe issues with France's laws prohibiting religious expression in public. Therefore, note to self: Ashley, do not move to France.

That is their law. Case closed. Not that the problem in and of itself will magically disappear.

The poster above used Saudi and America as examples but that has nothing to do with France because France is not Saudi or America.



Ashley ( may I ? )

France will have more burqa wearers as a result of this banning . That is what happened in other countries that did ban burqa in public places .

imho , the so called burqa problem has not been solved by this law .

I do see the point you are making .
Yet I am pointing out that in this instance , the passing of this law will only serve to create more burqa wearers as a result.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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I am no fan of islam. I find it a repressive religion/political ideology.

but

I have a St. Christopher's medalion. I have a rosary. (betcha can't guess MY religion!)

When one religion is suppressed, when will the next one be targeted? Sure, just move. Easy answer. But this kind of secularism is dangerous.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by wingsfan
 


Amen to your comments, I have told my own family members if you dislike it here is the US so much and you are always praising your country of birth like Iran, than I see no reason why you should not move back...?

Then they change the content to well America is the land of the free etc...and detract from why they left their wonderful country to begin with.

Blend in, enjoy a different culture...I am Muslim/Persian/American and speak English, Farsi, Spanish and some Portuguese...



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Annee
I suppose this is a hard core logical position for practical reasons.

In this day and age - - - I can not support face covering of anyone (except outside weather wear).

Religious/Cultural or otherwise.





That'll be the fear factor making you think like that, we've managed to survive over a thousand years of the Burqa but now it's waay too scary, even though a nudist could pack a kilo of c4 up their kiester, I hope I haven't just started a campaigne for government seals on our arses, may be the TSA could be on hand for the opening of seals when a visit to the lav is called for.


What fear factor are you talking about? Did I mention Burkas anywhere?

My grandson plays at the park with a little boy who's mother is covered head-to-toe except for her face. I drive him to a park that is culturally diverse - - because I think it is good for us - - rather then walk him to a local park that is too yuppie for me.

There is also ski masks - - bandanas - - etc. I'm in Los Angeles.

I do not support covering ones face for practical and logical reasons. I suppose there is an association with criminality - - as men have been caught disguising themselves in Burkas.

I just don't support it. My prerogative.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





The truth is Ashley D half the people arguing against this are arguing for the right to be a slave... "If they become fully integrated into our society" Which is a nice way of saying learn to think and do as we do to be slaves to it like we are, even though you have lived your whole life thinking and living differently! It is saying in essence, you are free only if you are exactly like us!


So asking people to follow the laws of the country they MOVED to is wrong?

Im sorry but if you dont like the laws somewhere then go back to your country where your religion is predominant.......

I dont come into someones house and expect them to go by MY rules...........

What you described is the pentacle of the problem in the world now, narcissism........

I want what I WANT, and I dont care what YOU say or what YOUR laws are........


Where as you are simply arguing for what you want by making what you want the LAW!

You know what SCREW THE LAW, it's all a religious construct anyway, I am a human being, the fact that I was born on a piece of real estate that a nation laid claimed to and that nation now wants to lay claim to me does not cut it in my world.

So someone before I was born made some moves for power and control I am suppose to be forever a hostage too.

Not proto.

I don't think most of you could handle true freedom because you are all by and large threatened by anyone exercising it to be different than you have been programed to live.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

We need to get power back in the hands of the people, not put more in the hands of the government. .



Slightly off topic but I always find this sentiment highly hilarious.

"....back in the hands of the people......" suggests that at some time in the past 'the people' had influence or control of our respective governments.
We both know that is absolute nonsense and the next time national policy and government is dictated or decided by the will of the people or even in their best interests will be the first time!

In fact if the will of the people was being followed this would have been enacted quite some time ago here in the UK.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mr-lizard
 



One of the things many Westerners suffer from when it comes to not percieving the Free Range Slavery Statist System is they measure their limited freedoms against cultures that they believe as having less freedoms so therefore since they believe they are freer on their farm that they are free!


Like you just measured the American constitution against French law?



We are all being repressed from living fully free and independent lives free of fear of and of government intrusion and penalty. Often for offences that have hurt no one at all, but are simply economic opportunities for the government to regulate and make money through fines, and fees and slave prison labor.


Hurt nobody? Besides the women who DO suffer both Islamic and non-Islamic.



You imagine you are free because you are better off in theory than those they point out to you that they claim are not as well off.


I imagine i'm free? I am free. Please, don't even accuse me of comparing myself on material gain. That's an insult.



Wouldn't matter to you from what you are saying if a Muslim woman wearing a Burka was as happy as a chipmunk, what matters to you is you have been told and believe she shouldn't be!


And it doesn't matter to you that i've pointed out that many Muslim women are deeply unhappy about it, yet you willingly choose to ignore what i've offered.



To in essence support your government in taking away what makes her happy even though she isn't hurting you at all.


It's not my Government.



No there is not much arguing with bullies.


Who have I bullied? That's an insult and an accusation, which again proves to me you don't have a clue what you're waffling on about and choose to insult me instead.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


The fear of criminality was the fear I was referring to, I have no such fear therefor don't call for a ban on face covering and I try to argue against those that make such a call, my prerogative.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


How do you really imagine a woman suffers wearing a burka?

That she really is silently crying because she wants to wear ballet slippers and a tutu?

That it causes her more pain when she is menustrating?

You want a fair vote and reflection of whether Muslim Women in France should be allowed to wear the Burka, then let only the Muslim Women in France who wear them vote on it!

What you are in fact doing is shamelessly pretending to be trying to protect the very same women you fear and persecute with every other breath.

So which do you really want to do protect them or persecute them?

Love them or fear them?

Make them just like you!

But hey your a man!

So you want to tell them what to do!

Even though you are only doing that to protect them from men who you imagine are already telling them what to do!






posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Now you're chatting gibberish, making abstract and wholly random accusations that have no basis in fact or reality.

Your issue isn't with me, your issue is with the French government who have made a decision.

Deal with it.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by 23432
 


I definitely agree- the law will not solve the heart of the issue. Expect protests (already happening), expect the police to not enforce it (already happening), expect others to don the veil who otherwise would not wear it in an act of solidarity (already happening), expect civil disobedience (already happening), etc.

When I said 'problem solved,' again I never remotely implied the problem would vanish. My post was only in reference to the fact France has the right to create their own laws, independent of the prior examples given of Saudi Arabia and the United States.

So your reply was somewhat non sequitur in terms of the argument I was making although I DO understand and agree with what you mention. Interpret 'problem solved' as 'case closed' concerning the government laws if that helps clarify. I never said the problem would vanish.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
There is an old saying.

When in Rome , do as the Romans do .



not if you're muslim...you get special privledges, and the ones that get really mad will simply kill your people. after all, you are the infidel, and you are insulting their religous beliefs, therefore, they have to punish you. it's in the quaran, it's taught in madrassas (schools), and it is preached from their religous leaders.
edit on 11-4-2011 by jimmyx because: context



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Thanks Ashley , I get you now .

+1



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Now you're chatting gibberish, making abstract and wholly random accusations that have no basis in fact or reality.

Your issue isn't with me, your issue is with the French government who have made a decision.

Deal with it.


This is correct your issues are with you. I have plenty enough of my own issues!

Wait the mail lady just arrived and now I have another one, yeah this months Penthouse is here!

Wow, women of the Burka!

This should be a good one.

My actual issue though is with people who cry about the state of our governments and then support the crazy things like this that just make them all the more powerful and all the more intrusive.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

I have made some sound arguments in this thread and they speak for themselves.

So I will leave all those people in favor of micro-managing everyone else and the intollerant New World Order Society to praise it's virtues and arrival!





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