French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

Proto,

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Why would I want to visit Gaul! The people rarely bathe, are rude, and are prone to give up their nation to anyone with an army, while terrified of women wearing burkas.

Why would you want to visit Gaul? For a start the country is called France, has been for a while. Sarcasm is the lowest form of whit they say, yet you seem to spoon it on like a fat kid does sugar on his cereals. I can’t begin to express how ridiculous and stupid your posts have become in this thread. You have no real experience on the topic, you’re playing devil’s advocate and being nothing but cantankerous for the hell of it, to get a rise out of people.

The subject is a sensitive one, which doesn’t require bigoted, xenophobic comments relating to the second world war where a lot of French died, protecting their homeland and making it safe for the allied to invade. Please, go and take a deep breath and come back when you’re ready to discuss this topic properly without being derogatory about an entire nation, who.. may I add, assisted the US in becoming the US.

Shall I go into the monumental American forces defeats throughout history too, or shall we stay on topic here Proto?

As for your analogy about the Jewish congregations, off the mark, totally unrelated. Again you display a total and undeniable lack of knowledge about what is going on in a country you seem to deplore. Unwashed? Come on, couldn’t you come up with something a little better than that? Shame on you.

T

First of all a link

Couple jailed

Not sure if they were married or not..but the same thing would happen to a married couple.
My religion gives me the right to kiss a woman wherever i want if i am married in church and so on..
So they get 30 days of jail + 300 $ fine + deportation.

Here someone got ony a 150€ fine..

So why is EU law flawed and theirs is not? Why i can't simply give my wife a simple kiss?

Will they change their law because of MY RELIGION??

If France thinks "veil law" is needed then its needed. You don't agree? Pay the fine..

The reason face veils are being banned is a simple one.

It interferes with facial recognition technology...

reply to post by wayno


Well then let them not enter banks, drive cars etc and let them choose for themselves. At least they can still go outside. If you truely believe that every woman that wears a burka is forced to do so by their husbands then surely banning them is more detrimental for those women as now they cannot even go outside at all.

So their husbands remove their choice of what to wear and you remove their choice of being able to go out in public at all.

At least in my solution they can still get some fresh air once in a while.

Banning burqas is not right solution IMHO, freedom is what makes us better than them. Burqas can also be used to identify potential extremists.

Originally posted by Maslo
Burqas can also be used to identify potential extremists.

How can you identify anyone like that? You have a crowd of people with their faces covered and you can't stop everyone and ask for an ID.

So 1 of lets say 30 people who have their face covered in the street is an extremist. How can you tell?

reply to post by Nimes


Women who wear burqas, their relatives and associates would be first to consider when identifying potential extremists among muslims They are probably the hardcore ones, so burqas could be used as a clue.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Nimes

 

Women who wear burqas, their relatives and associates would be first to consider when identifying potential extremists among muslims They are probably the hardcore ones, so burqas could be used as a clue.

That doesn't have to be the case. What if she was alone in the street or with other female friends?

You wouldn't have a clue what's going on.

reply to post by poet1b


I'm not rehashing the debate. Go back and read your responses and you'll see why i came to that conclusion.

I can proove that 'sane' women do want to wear a burka:

Speaking from under the veil: Don't call us oppressed

Burka ban: Why must I cast off the veil?

Opinion: Why I'm proud to wear the burqa

They sound like perfectly sane women to me and to imply that they must have mental issues is extremely belittling and calous.

reply to post by Nimes

That doesn't have to be the case. What if she was alone in the street or with other female friends? You wouldn't have a clue what's going on.

I dont mean identifying people on the street, that would indeed be made harder by the burqas. I am talking about long-term investigation of muslim community to identify those that have extremist tendencies. This will be made easier by the burqas, as an another clue to determine where extremism may be present. Moderate western muslims do not usualy wear burqas, or force their wives to do so.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here is another reason to wear the Burka you haven't thought of, that in fact leads some women in Afghanistan to wear it, and that's facial disfigurement caused by being the victim of violence not by their husbands but Coalition Bombs dropped on their homes a process often supported by people who imagine the things that you do.

Anyone who thinks like I do, would not support aerial bombing of civilian areas. I've been verbal about that on other threads here on ATS. Nice try at a sly insult. Looks good on you. Very revealing.

So as to having to resort to begging on the street because she has no husband, or fearing reprisal for being scarred, that says a lot about the culture in Islamic countries. I know your Laissez-faire attitude would say that is their problem; not ours. Perhaps you are right about their country, but in France no. You keep trying to make excuses for the way women are mistreated in extremist Muslim communities as if it was their right. It is not. We should not turn a blind eye to this any more than to the plight of any other minority being mistreated.

Nammu, the way you talk I can't help but wonder if you would think its OK for men to walk around in public covered in a burqa like garment as well? Would you feel safe with this too, or is this just something women should have a right to do?

I don't know if this has already been posted but I this really made think about it in a different way.
The following is a view from a woman who lives in Sharia law against her will no chioce of wearing burga or not.




saudiwoman.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by eyesdown
I don't know if this has already been posted but I this really made think about it in a different way.
The following is a view from a woman who lives in Sharia law against her will no chioce of wearing burga or not.




saudiwoman.wordpress.com...

Dear Eyesdown,
Thank you for this, wonderful reading.

I implore everyone both for and against this ban to read this to get a little more insight.

Regards,
T

reply to post by coquine


First of all the swastika is not banned in "western" countries. This can easily be seen in regular neo nazi demonstrations and parades, secondly it is impossible to ban a tatoo.

you, like a lot of Islamophobes, wrongly assume that muslims have immigrated to the "west". What you fail to realise is that most muslims in Europe are born here. Not to mention a sizable population who have converted to Islam.So your claptrap about "living in your parents house" is irelevant.
Moreover, your erroneous figures as to the number of muslims dependant on the state is totally unsubstantiated, but why let facts get in the way of a good fairytale eh!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by coquine

 

First of all the swastika is not banned in "western" countries. This can easily be seen in regular neo nazi demonstrations and parades, secondly it is impossible to ban a tatoo.

you, like a lot of Islamophobes, wrongly assume that muslims have immigrated to the "west". What you fail to realise is that most muslims in Europe are born here. Not to mention a sizable population who have converted to Islam.So your claptrap about "living in your parents house" is irelevant.
Moreover, your erroneous figures as to the number of muslims dependant on the state is totally unsubstantiated, but why let facts get in the way of a good fairytale eh!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
.

First of all, I never made any suggestion at all that swastikas or tattos are banned anywhere.

Second of all, I do not wrongly assume anything. I live in France. South France, where the new ones arrive, and that second generation (born here) that I have already described, live.
I know intimately what the problems here are, I know exactly why the law was created and passed, I know that the majority of the Muslims here are on welfare. I have to deal with them on a daily basis, we all do here. It would be nice if a parade or decent protest was done by them once in a while, instead of random violence, destruction, and bullying.

The french have bent over backwards to honor and respect these people, and they have been taken over. They have a right to stand up for themselves a bit. You should know that the young second generation born here reject the label of being french? That they write and yell "Nique les francais" everywhere? If THEY don't consider themselves french, why do YOU?

reply to post by Nammu


That you claimed I posted something, and yet can't provide a link and a quote to where I posted such a statement, only goes to prove that you are not honest.

Your three links read like propaganda pieces, with the same racist and xenophobic statements, the ole, why are you afraid of women in burqa's nonsense.

The evidence that most women who wear the veil are being forced to wear the veil is overwhelming, and claims to the opposite are weak, and often come from sources that are often dishonest. .

reply to post by coquine


I generally tend to treat as suspect anecdotes from interested parties, who claim to know difinitively the beliefs and positions of whole racial groups.Especially when the group in question totals 5 million souls.

What we can say with historical certainty, is that France was saved not once but twice, by her muslim subjects.
That is why your still able to speak French today and not German.

I`d say that earns them the right to be in France and treated just like any other French person.

www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr...
www.worldwar1.com...

reply to post by eyesdown


What an excellent article that does a good job of articulating the problem. This is what most people hear from women about the Middle East. This points out the reality.

saudiwoman.wordpress.com...

When I read that the ban has gone through the French parliament with an overwhelming majority, I was unexpectedly ecstatic about it. I don’t live in France and I don’t even to plan to visit anytime soon and yet it made me happy that women there don’t have a choice. Yes this is one area where I’m anti-choice. Covering the face is the very essence of objectifying women. With her face covered, a woman is reduced to an object that needs to be protected by a male guardian. For every woman who truly chooses of her own freewill to cover her face, there are hundreds if not thousands forced and pressured to by the religious establishment, family and society. Who would you sacrifice, that one woman who can manage to find God in something else or those hundreds, so that one can liberally choose?

The number of times I have heard Saudi women here, who are conditioned to believe that covering is an unquestionable issue, sigh as they watch uncovered women on TV and say لهم الدنبا ولنا الأخرة (they get the world and we get the afterlife). These are the women “choosing” to cover, brainwashed into living to die. I wish I had the power to take the choice away from them.

I have talked to these women, I see their expressions. Ban the veil, ban the hijab, and set extremely stiff penalties for men who lock their women in their houses. It should be a twenty year minimum prison sentence.

reply to post by Saracen1


More propaganda nonsense. These soldiers were slaves trained by the French, and eventually set free, who then continued to support the French against the constant Islamic invaders.

They were not Muslims who saved France. It certainly doesn't give Muslim from around the world the right to move to France. What preposterous nonsense.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by coquine

 

What we can say with historical certainty, is that France was saved not once but twice, by her muslim subjects.
That is why your still able to speak French today and not German.

what a load of bull#.

France was saved by Americans, Brits, Indians, Vietnamese, Russians (many more of them than French Moslems!), animists, catholics, protestants, atheists, communists, Australians, Fijians, West Africans, South Africans, Egyptians, Jews, Ghurka's, New Zealanders, Canadians, Jamacans, Brazilians (the people not hte "style!), Portuguese, Japanese (for half of the cases....), Chinese, Burmese, and money.