For possibly the only time in my life I will say this with the greatest amount of sincerity, good will and admiration.

Vive La France!

I only hope that we follow your lead very shortly, but unfortunately I doubt any of our self-serving and spineless politicians, of all political persuasions, would have the strength of conviction or public spiriitness to pursue the implementation of such a policy here.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
As a female I cannot and do not accept that a woman should have to hide her feminity due to male insecurity and dominance.

I agree. But if someone else wants to do it, it's none of my business. It seems more and more, if people disagree with something (abortion, gay marriage, burqa wearing), they have no problem supporting laws that ban it. But if they agree with something (prayer in school, recreational drug use), they rebel against government encroachment.

Our personal feelings about women wearing a burqa are one thing. But the government dictating what a person can and cannot wear is quite another. I'm always disappointed when I read about support of this law, even though I used to support it myself.

I used to support it because of banks, etc. If people are moving in public, other people and the authorities should be able to tell who they are, right? Because if a crime is committed, then people can ID the perpetrator. That's a reasonable stance. But then I realized that this law is like gun control laws. How many bank robbers and other people out to cause trouble or commit a crime are going to obey this law? They aren't. Just as criminals aren't going to obey gun laws.

The only reason to support this law, as far as I can see, is a desire to oppress Muslim people in France. If there is another good reason, I'd love to hear it. But I don't agree with a government oppressing anyone. So I cannot support this law. It's contrary to freedom. I don't know how much personal freedom means in France, but it means a hell of a lot to me.

Enough with the apologetics trying to defend Islam under the cover of individual freedom!!!

You can use all the vocabulary and quote all the rhetoric you want, when the rubber meets the road Islam is a control device that is being used to overrun the moderate Western world under the veil of 'tolerance.'


They will be very tolerant of you as long as you believe exactly as they do, pray exactly as they do, and live exactly as they do. If you do not, they will tolerate your death.

Islam, and in fact, all prosetilyzing religions, must be slowed down. Just look at how big of a hell hole this world is becoming due in large part to religious extremism on various fronts.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

Bravo France! Thank you for having the courage to stand up to these savages and start to reclaim your national identity. I can only hope that America and Britain follow your lead in this.

P.S.... feel free to call me a racist or intolerant, I'm used to it by now. But I will not allow my freedom to be taken from me by politcal correctness.

Dear 23432,

Thank you for the well thought out response. I'll take the time to respond to yours.

I don't think the "Arabisation" of France is the issue. Having lived there many years I think it is ingrained in the culture now. The Islamisation is another story, one which I won't even attempt to discuss here, however for the record I have read the Qu'ran.

On to the Burqua issue again and your comments about Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite. You're right about the terminology, but when it was "thought" about is another era. The social, political and cultural issues we have today were not around, so .. it's a tangible link to use, but ok let's discuss it.

The liberals will be in uproar at the fact any government dares to oppress a "people" and dictate to them what they can and cannot wear. I don't doubt they will be, they will spout their rhetoric about "it is the beginning of the end" etc.. however sadly I don't think they really are thinking about their emotionally driven desire to defend their "freedoms". Let's make a simple link here for those reading. The wearing of the swastika will end you up in prison in Germany. Are the Germans in uproar at the fact they can't wear the Swastika? I don't think so, yet.. the government dictated to them it was illegal. Similarly in the UK you cannot wear a bike helmet when entering a bank, in case you are intending to rob it. Are all the bike riders in the UK in uproar?

There are Muslim women who wear the Burqua out of choice, you are right. However if you actually find and read the verse in the Qu'ran which discussed this issue, there is nothing within it which states they should be covered from head to foot in a garment which only allows for the eyes to be seen. The practice was born out of a male driven oppressive society. Should we decide to not allow that women to wear the Burqua even if she wishes to? That is the question, and the government of France decided yes.

They chose to because of the far greater number of women who wear the Burqua because they are told to, forced to, by their husbands. Husbands who hide behind a misinterpretation of the Qu'ran to subject their women to abuse, in France. It is entirely within the rights of the French government and French people to make that decision. They did so and with the applause of many people.. and yes indeed our rights will be taken away to rapturous applause, one day, not this day.

If a majority of Muslim women do not want to wear the Burqua but their husbands beat them until they do, who should stand up to defend their rights? Do we continue to hide behind our daily newspapers as women and children are battered, or do we.. as a nation say stop. Today France decided to say stop. I don't think it's quite the same as deciding to invade Iraq or Libia under false pretenses though.. one could argue that where the ball should stop rolling is when something illegal is being done.. I don't think the French government deciding what can and cannot be worn within it's boundaries can be thought of as illegal, yet I am sure many Muslims will try to say it is.

Regards,
T

Well on the brighter side..

Now we get a better look at all those hot Arabic women!

Originally posted by Freeborn
For possibly the only time in my life I will say this with the greatest amount of sincerity, good will and admiration.

Vive La France!

I only hope that we follow your lead very shortly, but unfortunately I doubt any of our self-serving and spineless politicians, of all political persuasions, would have the strength of conviction or public spiriitness to pursue the implementation of such a policy here.

That is my own thoughts too

But I couldnt possibly say the vi vi vi la la fra fran..... Nahhh... My finger were about to be sick just trying to type that!

Originally posted by torqpoc

On a security level it is undeniably a good point

So security concerns override all human rights or just those of Muslims, I have more chance of dying when a painter falls off his ladder onto me than from a terrorist attack and want the freedom to cover my face from oppressive cctv cameras if I want to exercise my right to protest, this is a dumb law that will have terrible repercussions.

I would like to respond to several comments, but am a newb and haven't gotten down yet all the tools here and grabbing various quotes.

One thing I'd like to comment on is what I percieve is the split is the difference between the political reason for the law and the reason many citizens back it. I do think that the political tactic is mor elinked to trying to integrate the arab population with the french. The french people, however, do have a certain amount of fear and resentment driving them (and I'll get to that) and also value women probably higher than the Americans do, so are greatly repulsed by the sexism in the arab population. So the people individually will cite the sexist issue... but I think the politicians speak of another issue in private.

As cited, the biggest problems come not from the first generation of immigrants, but the second and third, from whom a new generation of more extremist Islamists has risen. They didn't pass through Immigration, and they drive back to Algeria once a year to buy a new 14 year old wife and bring her here (I know personally men who do this).
Ironically, these new Muslims use their religion as excuse to do many things like that... but they come into my store drunk off their butt to buy beer on the weekend, so they are not strict in all disciplines of Islam.

Though the amazing growth of reproduction does risk taking over the country through numbers alone, it is not the biggest problem. Frankly, I think the french would even, with time, adapt to the religion eventually. My own kid had a moment of considering becoming Muslim.

The problems lies within this refuse to integrate. I do not mean act like everyone and dress the same- I mean we are under violent suppression here! We moved up into a rural area, high in the mountains, because in an urban area, the word got aroudn that I was american. So my children were beaten up by gangs of arabs, our property vandalized repeatedly, my husband and I were harrassed and had stones thrown at us, and our home was bombed twice with homemade bombs. The police told us clearly that they couldn't do anything. The instigators lived in an area of arab population that they do do nto go into, because of the danger. And if an arab kid is arerrested for breaking any law, the rest of their population goes berzerk and takes to the streets and burns cars, so they don't dare arrest any.

I have a small commerce, and live in fear, because the other ones around have been held up by these hoodlums many times! Last year a man was killed in a hold up, then one week later, they hit another and this time the man defended himself and hit one of the criminals with something when they held a gun to his face. The criminal was wounded. The following days, the muslim population hit the streets to protest that the store owner was not arrested for harming the man (either was the man, for armed robbery....). The store owner was eventually facing charges for his defensive action.

My kids watch arab kids tell their teachers what to do in class, and threaten to have their whole neighborhood come get them if they do not comply. And they do.

The french have a socialized medical system and many government aids. The french pay a LOT of taxes, but don't mind because it comes back to them in this form. One of the aids is money given to families with children regardless of their income. It was originally a way to motivate the french to repopulate after the losses of WWII.

So... the arabs live off of that. They have many wives and can make many children each year, recieve money each month per child, and get all medical free, without working!!! They are driving Mercedes and BMW's, without having a job, and living in state- subsidized housing!

The french tax payers are paying for their high life, and taking spit and violence in their face as well. What is happening here has nothing at all to do with the nice polite Muslims in England I've heard described.

I used to be very liberal and when I first arrived here years ago was openly against any racism. I have Muslim friends as well, who are terrified by this movement of young muslims. And even they say that letting them continue this way WILL NOT solve the problem. They are insensitive to the subtilities of peer pressure and tradition that the french use, and only recognize a harsh authoritarian hand. That is why they do not respetc the frnech authority- their own parents were more scary than the french police. Problem is, now they are big adults and their parents are scared of them now too.

Sorry if I sound emotional. I am in the midst of this and it is hard to stay completley neutral in emotion.